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RxDawg
✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
As much as I'm sick of reading about that guy... this was a good article. Really good.
I think there's one small part of this saga you left out. It wasn't that so many of us were angry he transferred out. Many of us were very angry that the NCAA gave him immediate eligibility. That should of never happened.
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hgray59
✭ Freshman
Maybe -
but i remember Kirby responding to a question about what kind of a plan he had to use Justin Fields and he said "the only plan we have is we don't have a plan". He wasted his redshirt opportunity by playing him with no plan. When Kirby is through coaching he should run for governor.
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MacroDawg
✭✭ Sophomore
Joe Burrow was already at LSU when Fields was at GA if I remember. Fields did not chase Burrow away from Ohio st.
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MontanaDawg
✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
Let's look at one single fact concerning this tiresome Fromm-Fields debate: Fromm was a 4th Round NFL Draft Pick. 4th Round.
Lawrence, Fields, Jones, Lance (ND State), and Wilson (BYU) are all projected 1st Round picks this year. Even if Fromm had stayed an extra year he wouldn't be going in the 1st Round. No way. He may not have even gone in the 2nd Round. His potential ceiling had pretty much been reached the last couple of seasons, and he realized that (and so did the NFL Scouts). Coming back this season would probably have helped the Dawgs but not so much his draft potential.
So there you have it. Fields fits in perfectly with the Ohio State offense. He may even end up an Atlanta Falcon.
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Ddavis0777
✭✭✭✭ Senior
Kirby gets paid millions a year to win. If not, he loses the opportunity. Using that logic alone, anyone who thinks he didn’t start Fields due to race, is race baiting. If fields was going to give us a better chance to win, he’d have played.
I think the biggest factor driving this drama was that Fromm was not as gifted as Fields. But seeing this on the surface was misleading because this drastic disparity was offset by how much more DEVELOPED Fromm was. And how much more experience he had in the offense/SEC.
Similarly, Fields and Lawrence were the #1 & 2 five stars from that year. As a result Fields and those influencing him likely saw him as “just as good” as Lawrence. But again, he wasn’t quite as developed. We have to remember stars are a reflection of POTENTIAL, not PRESENT ability. As you see the experts were right, look at Fields and Lawrence now. And look at where Fromm, a four star, landed. I just think these kids get gassed up way to much with this star system, and this on top of liberal transfer policy result in situations like this and always will.
I still hold no ill-will and hope OSU beats Bama tonight. Fields for MVP!
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HunkerDawg
✭✭✭ Junior
Good article Mike.
I wish my fellow Dawg fans could finally just be happy for Justin without gnashing teeth. We enjoyed having Jake. Wish it could have worked out for Justin here. Understand why it didn't from all sides. It's not a new type of problem, and as problems go it's a great one to have. Move on. Root for the young man to be Bama. Happy we have Monken and JT in '21. GO DAWGS!!
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reddawg1
✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
Basically Fields was not brought along as well as he should have been. It showed in the SEC Championship game. We needed a spark, we dominated early on and fell flat later in the game, the momentum swung when BAMA inserted Hurts. We could have used Fields coming in and giving us a potential boost, but Fields wasn't ready, KIrby obviously felt like Jake was the only chance we had. Turns out it was so unlike what BAMA did.
I would at least offer the possibility that if Fields had been given more meaningful snaps during the season , he would have been ready for his opportunity, if allowed to do so. It was never to be. I, like others, feel like the fake punt was an act of desperation and I have reviewed it several times, maybe I will go back and review it again, maybe I missed it but I didn't see anyone being wide open.
The shame was: for whatever reason and whoever's fault, Fields wasn't trusted by Kirby enough to be inserted as Hurts and Tua were in successive years to provide a spark.
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kirkhilles
✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
Yes, but Tua didn't start ONE GAME as a freshman. In fact, he only played in 8 games vs Fields played in all 12 for us. It wasn't like Hurts had taken them to the NC game and then Tua starts game #1 Freshman year.
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kirkhilles
✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
Yep. Honestly, it was just a mess altogether. Some things to consider:
1) He didn't commit to us first. He committed to Penn State. So, you could ask how "they could let him go"
2) We weren't even close to being the first school to give him an offer either. We were 31st to do.
3) The Top 2 QBs commits of 2020 chose schools behind Lawrence and Fields KNOWING they weren't going to be the starters Freshman year. Does Vandagriff expect to start next year instead of a likely Heisman strong pre-season candidate?
4) Fields played in 12 games Freshman year. Tua played in 8. We gave Fields 4 TDs, 39 passing attempts and 42 rushing attempts.
5) The perception seems to be that Lawrence was named the starter Freshman year and was given the "keys" from the beginning. Check again. Game #1: Bryant had more attempts than Lawrence, #2 Bryant had 2x the # of attempts than Lawrence, #3 Lawrence had 2/3rds of passes, but Bryant still in the mix, #4 still sharing with Bryant. It wasn't until Game #5 that he was pretty much declared the starter.
6) Ohio State didn't exactly "name him the starter" upon transfer. It was close to season start before he had won the job. Maybe that was just rhetoric, but if not then maybe he wasn't fully ready yet... which means he CERTAINLY wasn't ready to play all 12 games for a team that had almost won the NC.
And then came the "incident" with the baseball player and so, I mean, there's nothing to say beyond that. In theory (since he got immediately availability because of it) even if he was the starter, that would've sent him packing.
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Bigjohnson92
✭✭✭✭ Senior
Did I actually just read ‘he was so talented, that we let him work on a fake punt all year’. What?
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ShoottheHooch
✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
Next year, you should watch some Dawg games. Perhaps you will learn something about Kirby and Dawg football!
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reddawg1
✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
My recollection was Kirby put Fields into games late to hand off the ball as not to get Jake a late game injury when the game was in hand. Video tape shows Fields remarking to a fellow player after a game that he "handed the ball off remarkably well"(sarcastically). We all know Kirby's MO is to get a lead in the 2nd half and start running and shortening the game. He never IMO thought for a second about Hey, let's get the kid some throws. That IMO didn't sit well with Fields.
You have a 5 star as a back up but you are afraid he may throw a pick and lose a game for you . That's Kirby for you. For better or for worse. Go by the book and don't think outside the box too much. In the end no confidence with Fields cost him his service.
I know most of you won't like this but I don't think Kirby realized what he had in Fields. He didn't see Justin leading his team to a Natty playoff in 2 years. But I also don't believe we had the supporting cast and OC that could get him to where he is today. That guy is at Ohio. St. The guy we had is now at Tennessee. An ok old school but not innovative OC. Cheney, then Coley. LOL! That wouldn't have turned out so well. Justin's smiling all the way to the bank.
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DawgSonOfGamecock
✭✭✭ Junior
Great post 87Dawg_11. To add to your point, not only have those two programs had difference makers at QB, I think it also illustrates the differences in how the respective coaches make personnel decisions. Kirby, described as a player's coach, chose loyalty over talent when assessing his quarterbacks, while Saban and Swinney were willing to make the difficult decisions in order to get the more talented QB on the field. They ultimately didn't care about hurt feelings, be it the QB's or the fans'.
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rhbatch
✭✭✭✭ Senior
It was what it was and it is what it is. Seems to me that hard work and loyalty should be worth something. Kirby is the coach and I am very glad that he is.
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87Dawg_11
✭✭✭ Junior
Nothing in this article surprises me, I'm sure Fields thought he should be starting and was jealous Trevor Lawrence was starting and Fields had competed with Lawrence at the Elite 11 QB camp and was selected top QB. Fields also knew he was the most talented QB at UGA and he wasn't getting a chance to display that talent. Fields and Lawrence were in the exact same situation playing behind QBs who had taken their teams to the CFP the previous year. Debo replaced Kelly even though he was winning when he recognized Lawrence was more talented and the future of the program; Smart stuck with Fromm, although Fields was the most talented and the future of the program. Nick Saban made the same decision when he replaced Hurts with Tua; although; Hurts had gotten them to a NC game. Those decisions are the difference in where the Clemson and Alabama programs are and where UGA is: all three recruit at an extremely high level and have great players at every position, but Alabama and Clemson had/have difference makers at QB - and so does Ohio State.
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1SICemDAWGS1
✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
Funny, here it is 2021, and UGA is STILL signing Elite black players. Always the race card, you have no clue.
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BigDawg64
✭ Freshman
I guess everyone is forgetting that Ohio State "let" a guy by the name of Joe Burrow transfer. He played kinda good, won a National Championship, won a Heisman. Same thing with Kyler Murray and Baker Mayfield. But you never hear people ranting as much about them like they do Justin. Wonder why? Fact is, 5 star QB's are liable to transfer if they don't win the starting job or at least get significant playing time. It happens every year. Can we just let the Fields thing go now....?
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SWDawg68
✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
I really like your post, and agree with your first point. You only refer to facts and even though I love the banter about the woulda, coulda, shoulda, when it comes down to it, he wasn't what they say he was. He did give all he had, but in the end..
OH, and I will take that bet, even with the points!
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joell
✭ Freshman
I kinda sympathized with Jake. He was ranked up there with Deshaun Watson, Trevor , Burrows, Tua, when in reality, he was not at their level. So despite giving the maximum effort, he could not live up to the unrealistic expectations.
As for Fields, like him or not, he's an elite level QB. And if he's healthy tomorrow, I would not be surprised if they defeat Bama.
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MontanaDawg
✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
We can continue to debate Smart's decisions regarding Fields and Fromm until the cows come home, but we will never know what could have happened had Fields been chosen as the starter over Fromm. Field's arm talents were hardly even used at Georgia when he did come in for a play or two and was mostly used for his running ability. Certainly Field's dual threat ability is something that Fromm didn't have and can create more problems for a defense as we all have seen.
All I know is this: Fields started at Ohio State the following year under a 1st year head coach AND a brand new offensive scheme with very little game experience under his belt and no starting experience. He played lights out for a 1st year starter in his first full season at OSU. Fields threw for 3,273 yards, 41 TDs, and only 3 Ints with a QB rating of 181 in Year 1 at Ohio State. He has been a leader and an elite FBS QB from the start at OSU.
2021 could and should be the year of the Natty for the Dawgs. If we don't at LEAST make the playoffs next season then every single fan out there should be majorly disappointed. Once again, the SEC East is the weaker division, and we should pretty easily win the East. Florida will not be a threat. Bama will reload but will have some work to do to get back up to their standards and find a new OC. An SEC Championship is certainly within reach if Kirby can get the Saban curse off his back. The talent is certainly there....just need coaching, development, and most of all - execution.
I expect Daniels to start next season, but I also think this could set up as another Fields and Fromm type scenario with incoming Vandergriff and 2nd year Beck. Will Kirby make the RIGHT decision at QB? Has JT already been anointed the chosen one?
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ShoottheHooch
✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
Respectfully, what a crock! Anybody who watched every play of Fields’ freshman season knows that in most every game Fromm would have the offense ticking, then, out of the blue, after a Bulldog score, Kirby relegated Fromm to the sideline while Fields went in for the next drive which usually ended in a punt against SEC competition and maybe a score against a cupcake team.
If anything, Kirby mismanaged Fromm since Jake had earned the starters position through his play and Kirby was simply placating Fields.
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SmartsTheMan
✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
Fromm was fourth in the nation in passing efficiency through the first six games of the 2018 season, completing 72 percent of his passes with 12 touchdowns and 2 interceptions.
Anybody who watched Fields play 'as a true freshman' should understand that freshman Justin Fields was incapable of matching Fromm's 2018 performance.
Fields should've been upset about Lawrence's faster progression. All he had to do was to look in the mirror to see the reason why. Fields didn't- couldn't pick up the progressions of the offense as fast as Lawrence did.
Replace true freshman Lawrence with true freshman Fields in the NCG that Clemson dominated Alabama in, and Clemson loses that game, because Fields wouldn't have been capable of making those Lawrence check-downs and going through 2-3 receiver reads.
Lawrence started out as the more advanced passer, and he's still ahead in that department. That's why Lawrence will be the first QB taken in the NFL draft, and that's why Fields will get chosen sometime after.
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SWDawg68
✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
This just made my point, one of those "other" reasons, that gets thrown out there!
I don't believe any of that, I have heard directly the opposite and even though you have every right to type that out, that is not one of the reasons. I hope you reconsider your position, it would make a difference!
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Whiznot
✭ Freshman
Kirby sandbagged Fields and protected Fromm. Outsiders who know that Fields was the better option will always think that race was the reason Fields wasn't given a chance. At one time Kirby had everything in his two hands but he let it slip through his fingers. The best black players will shun UGA from here on.
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LawDawg23
✭✭ Sophomore
I do understand and sympathize with the dilemma CKS had. He made the call and he gets paid the big bucks to make those calls. However, I would have found more ways to get Fields in the game. He was beaten by his mentor twice with later game QB changes. Had he given more playing time to Fields, he would have had that option as well versus Alabama. However, given the NCAA consideration of transfers up until that point, Fields should not have qualified for a waiver so that may have influenced CKS decisions as well. Bottom line is that you cannot leave that kind of talent sitting on the bench.
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ItchyZ
✭✭✭ Junior
One salient thing to keep in mind in this discussion, is that guys in their teens and early twenties do not have fully developed judgment, self-control and reasoning faculties. Those processes come from the frontal lobe of their brain which is typically not fully developed until age 25. This explains much of the unwise or eccentric behavior of teenagers/young adults and why continued guidance is needed. (See recent research at University of Rochester Medical Center)
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bigdawg88
✭✭ Sophomore
Does anybody grade the advice given to perhaps give a scorecard for these advisors? If someone consistenly gives bad grades, perhaps they should be excluded as an advisor, or at least let the kids know to do the opposite of what the bad advisors say. They have all kinds of metrics in sports, this should be an important one. Anybody ever do one on Mel Kiper? He had Fromm going 75th and he was picked 167th. Fromm did seem to decline a great deal his last season, but how was Kiper so far off? Seems like a lot of UGA players fall further than expected. May be that teams are discounting their potential because they think the program (being so good) may be hiding their flaws.
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bigdawg88
✭✭ Sophomore
I don't remember that as much, but I do remember him taking off darn near every pass play, and only gaining like a yard or two. He looked very slow to be a dual-threat qb. I'll have to look at him very closely in the natty. o state and okl are known for producing prolific quarterbacks, but they don't have the same success at the next level. That scares me, especially when they talk about the Falcons wanting him.
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bigdawg88
✭✭ Sophomore
Actually, they did have a decent qb on the roster... Joe Burrow. He left when Fields came. So if Fields stays he possibly starts the next season, especially when Fromm faltered, and lsu doesn't win the championship. Not sure if Burrow would have developed at o state like he did at lsu and won a championship, but we'll never know....
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DawgOnTop
✭✭ Sophomore
Talking to high school football coaches here in the northern Atlanta suburbs, no one doubts Fields's talent. The biggest critique from these local coaches is Fields's inability to go through his progressions in passing situations. On film, as a high school player, he was all too quick to tuck the ball and run when his first receiving option was covered. He never made it to his second or third read. Maybe this is the curse of a developing dual-threat QB...you have a tendency to want to prove it on your own two feet and give up on the pass if you don't immediately see what it is you're primarily looking for. This instead of patiently waiting in the pocket for one to two more seconds for the play to develop as your route runners are trying to get into space. Oh well. It sure would've been nice to have had him in the red and black. He was dominant against Clemson, and it will be fun to see what he can do against Alabama.
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ShoottheHooch
✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
I agree. People who wake up in the morning hoping to find an article on DN that will allow them to criticize Kirby have blocked from their memory that virtually every time Fields got on the Field as a freshman he panicked even before getting his feet set to deliver the ball and tucked and ran, most of the time for only a short gain. The fake punt against Bama was only the most obvious example of him panicking and freezing up.
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SWDawg68
✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
I agree that CKS has learned from this experience! What a dilemma to have, two top tier players capable of playing for a top tier program. How everything played out, is the gift that keeps on giving. Some have said that there were "other" reasons that played a role in all of this, not me! Others imply that their was a steep learning curve with the Chaney offense, maybe. And the final note that keeps getting brought up, CKS wouldn't allow it happen, that he wasn't capable of making a change of this magnitude, maybe!
What I do know, we just lost the Natty and had the starter returning at QB. Unless there was a noticable difference in all of the intangibles, how can you make that change.
I believe, I would rather have that level of competition, than not have it. I also believe that we don't want to be like other teams with a lack of talent and have to go through what we went through this past season.
Some of us want there to be something wrong or right about what happened. I am just happy that we have what have right now, this next season will be speicial.
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EvilSamPittman
✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
For the record, Betheridge below has no idea what he is talking about.
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EvilSamPittman
✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
Justin should have played and had a role his Freshman year - Kirby didn’t allow for it and it cost him a Natty. The fear of a QB controversy by allowing Fields meaningful time in the offense and game plan costed Kirby a couple of shots at a Natty.
Live and learn. I believe Kirby has probably learned from his mistakes but it will never be aired in an interview or a quote. Prior to this year, the last 3 years in a row the Heisman winner was a transfer QB - Burrow, Murray & Mayfield. When you have a special player - he has to play.
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Betheredge
✭✭✭ Junior
Justin had/has incredible athletic skills. The main issue in 2018 & even today is between his ears. It's even mentioned in this article. When Lawrence got on the Field, Justin felt like he should be playing as well. If Fields had put forth an effort remotely similar to what Jake Fromm had done in his freshman year, he would have taken the job at UGA. The execution on the fake punt was representative of his effort all year. The same effort & attitude followed him to Ohio State nearly costing him the starting job there. The game against Clemson, his best yet, shows how good he can be. He even indicated he had worked harder than ever to prepare for that game. It's sad he had not made that type of effort before now. If Fields continues to improve on his pregame effort he can be a great NFL QB. If he reverts back to his normal ways, hc could be the next great first round bust. I'm hoping he continues to mature & becomes the great QB that the Falcons need!
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Classof98
✭✭✭ Junior
My only complaint with how Smart (and Chaney) used Fields is that when Fields was inserted, it was as predictable as the sunrise what play would be run, and that was just a simple QB run, almost always to the right side.
They didn’t use him like an immensely talented dual-threat QB, they used him like running back running the wildcat.
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SmartsTheMan
✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
Mike Griffith, well done.
And I would add, I think Fields would've never left UGA if not for the NCAA breaking their own transfer rules, in a very obvious attempt to bail out Ohio St. Meyer had just left in disgrace, and to make matters even worse OS didn't have a viable QB prospect on the roster.
What would the B1G be without a top 5 Ohio St.
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Roman13
✭✭✭ Junior
Still scratching my head as to why Jake decided to go pro early. Our season would have been a bit different if he had stayed. Whoever is advising some of these young men is giving questionable advice.
