Is Chris Smith the next Deandre Baker ?

WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 7,685 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

Baker came in as 247's 657th ranked player, 64th ranked CB and 83rd ranked player in Georgia.
Smith's 247 rating is 306th overall, 30th CB and 34th in state.
Both were 5'10'' 170lb as seniors in hs.

In my opinion Baker is the best man cover DB we've had in a generation, I think Smith might have similar ability.
There are no other gifts quite as rare as elite man coverage where you can just put a CB on the opponent's best receiver with little help from safeties.

I get the whole 6'3'' 4.3 speed thing, but Smith is my pick to be our best pure cover CB from this class.

«1

Comments

  • leroy300hleroy300h Posts: 7 ✭ Freshman

    I love Smith's film. I watched a lot of film this signing period (former coach with nothing better to do I guess). His film was some of the best I watched. I agree that we focus too much and size and speed. Technique is a big deal for a corner, and Smith has it. I'd be surprised if Wilson and Joseph stay at CB long term unless they improve a lot in coverage. If Smith had Campbell's size and speed, he'd easily be the #1 corner. All that said, I think it will take time. Smith needs to get stronger. Give him two years, and then I think he starts. FWIW, he's one of the hardest workers in this class from what I've read.

  • DawgBKDawgBK Posts: 55 ✭✭ Sophomore

    I agree with you man! He shows tremendous upside. I didn't start follow him until later in the recruiting process but, to me, he shares that mentality of tenacity and "my receiver is never picking up a first down or touchdown". I believe he has that same mental make-up as Baker because they know they have to make up for that size mis-match with technique, field intelligence, and physical hunger. I hope he blossoms into a great asset for the team!

    @leroy300h said:
    I love Smith's film. I watched a lot of film this signing period (former coach with nothing better to do I guess). His film was some of the best I watched. I agree that we focus too much and size and speed. Technique is a big deal for a corner, and Smith has it. I'd be surprised if Wilson and Joseph stay at CB long term unless they improve a lot in coverage. If Smith had Campbell's size and speed, he'd easily be the #1 corner. All that said, I think it will take time. Smith needs to get stronger. Give him two years, and then I think he starts. FWIW, he's one of the hardest workers in this class from what I've read.

  • JoelSidneyKellyJoelSidneyKelly Posts: 1,548 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @leroy300h said:
    If Smith had Campbell's size and speed, he'd easily be the #1 corner... Give him two years, and then I think he starts.

    I must confess I didn't consider Smith until his impressive interview with @JeffSentell prompted me to check more closely. I think he has a good shot at significant PT (maybe even a starting spot), which says a lot considering that Kirby/ Tucker have recruited more CBs than any other position.

  • coastaldawgcoastaldawg Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    I haven't watched much film on Smith, but the earlier posts comparing him to Baker and predicting PT this year for him this year are good to see. Seems like there are always guys that come in under the radar and end up out-performing higher rated guys. Baker is #1 CB, McGhee has starting experience, Webb and Speer have game experience in mop-up roles, and Gibbs, Poole, and Stokes among others have at least a year in the system. If Smith can earn PT over them and his fellow true freshmen (especially Campbell), it will say a lot about what kind of talent he has. You've got to love our options at DB this year.

  • superdawgsuperdawg Posts: 207 ✭✭✭✭ Senior

    Deandre Baker is from South Florida, not Georgia. We hit South Florida hard over the last 2 recruiting classes for DB talent. Wilson, Campbell & Joseph this year + Brini & Speed last year. Deandre is 5-10ish, but has the wingspan of a 6-3 guy~unusually long arms for a 5-10 guy. There was some chatter about it when he was measured at the Army All-American game. Chris Smith also has long arms which will allow him to play much bigger aswell. I really like ALL the kids we've added in the secondary the last 2 classes. Long, fast & athletic....

    Deandre Baker was quit simply the BEST CB in the country last year in my eyes.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 7,685 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited February 27

    There's tangible assets that aren't measurable like height and 40 times that all top man cover corners have... flexible explosive hips being at the top of the list. Smith has the ability to keep good bend and balance while back peddling then to be able to flip the hips to re--route his course when a receiver makes a move to shake him.
    I see enough of that on film to make me think Smith has the right physical tools to go with drive.determination,etc.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 7,685 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @superdawg said:
    Deandre Baker is from South Florida, not Georgia. We hit South Florida hard over the last 2 recruiting classes for DB talent. Wilson, Campbell & Joseph this year + Brini & Speed last year. Deandre is 5-10ish, but has the wingspan of a 6-3 guy~unusually long arms for a 5-10 guy. There was some chatter about it when he was measured at the Army All-American game. Chris Smith also has long arms which will allow him to play much bigger aswell. I really like ALL the kids we've added in the secondary the last 2 classes. Long, fast & athletic....

    Good point, length is more important than height. That is the one area I'd like to see better. The people filming recruits always focus on the wrong things when it comes to CBs .take still pics that show arm length, video more pure coverage from the LOS where the CB backpedals and makes adjustments when receivers make moves to shake them.
    Take every other quality for a CB. I'd trade them all for the ability to mirror great receivers and consistently deny them the catch.

    >

  • DobroMattInOzDobroMattInOz Posts: 151 ✭✭✭ Junior

    Google "average NFL cornerback height." You'll see that most corners are not that tall. I like Smith.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 7,685 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @DobroMattInOz said:
    Google "average NFL cornerback height." You'll see that most corners are not that tall. I like Smith.

    I did a post showing the top 30 NFL CBs last year and only 2 was as tall as 6.2''.
    The sweet spot is 5'10'' to 6'0''.

  • CZCashvilleDawgCZCashvilleDawg Posts: 2,013 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited February 28

    NFL All Pro CBs:

    2017
    Xavier Rhodes - 6’1
    Jalin Ramsey - 6’1
    Darius Slay - 6’0

    2016
    Aquib Talib - 6’1
    Marcus Peters - 6’0
    Chris Harris Jr - 5’10

    2016
    Josh Norman - 6’0
    Patrick Peterson - 6’1
    Marcus Peters - 6’0

    2018 UGA Class
    Wilson - 6’0
    Joseph - 6’1.5
    Smith - 5’10.5

    6’0 is the current sweet spot for top shelf corners with it slowly growing to 6’1 due to the size of NFL wr climbing.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 7,685 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @CZCashvilleDawg said:
    NFL All Pro CBs:

    2017
    Xavier Rhodes - 6’1
    Jalin Ramsey - 6’1
    Darius Slay - 6’0

    2016
    Aquib Talib - 6’1
    Marcus Peters - 6’0
    Chris Harris Jr - 5’10

    2016
    Josh Norman - 6’0
    Patrick Peterson - 6’1
    Marcus Peters - 6’0

    2018 UGA Class
    Wilson - 6’0
    Joseph - 6’1.5
    Smith - 5’10.5

    6’0 is the current sweet spot for top shelf corners with it slowly growing to 6’1 due to the size of NFL wr climbing.

    I'm not sure the height of CBs averages more than a generation ago in The NFL, safeties are actually a bit smaller because cover ability is more important than in the past where run support was emphasized more at safety.

  • JeffSentellJeffSentell Posts: 2,373 admin

    Looking for a player parallel for Chris Smith II? I'm thinking of a taller (slightly) Tim Jennings.

    Same grinder. Same attitude. Tough dude. High intelligence level. It matters to him.

    Jennings was snatched away from South Carolina State on NSD years ago and made tens of millions in the NFL.

    Smith is in the "slept on" category for sure, but he's one guy I feel will surely outplay his recruiting rankings. He will get 5% better every year. At least.

    And he's also a 4-star recruit. Lot higher rated than Jennings was.

  • CZCashvilleDawgCZCashvilleDawg Posts: 2,013 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @WCDawg said:

    @CZCashvilleDawg said:
    NFL All Pro CBs:

    2017
    Xavier Rhodes - 6’1
    Jalin Ramsey - 6’1
    Darius Slay - 6’0

    2016
    Aquib Talib - 6’1
    Marcus Peters - 6’0
    Chris Harris Jr - 5’10

    2016
    Josh Norman - 6’0
    Patrick Peterson - 6’1
    Marcus Peters - 6’0

    2018 UGA Class
    Wilson - 6’0
    Joseph - 6’1.5
    Smith - 5’10.5

    6’0 is the current sweet spot for top shelf corners with it slowly growing to 6’1 due to the size of NFL wr climbing.

    I'm not sure the height of CBs averages more than a generation ago in The NFL, safeties are actually a bit smaller because cover ability is more important than in the past where run support was emphasized more at safety.

    The above was a reference to All Pro cornerbacks (top shelf talent) not average size. These are only corners, no safties listed.

    I do agree on the Saftey size coming down more in line with corner size to be more versatile in coverage.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 7,685 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    The tallest great CB in NFL history was Mel Blount at 6'3''.
    He played in a defense that consistently forced rushed and inaccurate throws though, so he got a ton of jump balls.
    Richard Sherman is 6'2'' but Carroll's zone quadrant pass defense doesn't require great coverage skills, it favors tall corners who can play similar to a low post defender in basketball.
    Easily the best cover corner I've seen in The NFL over the past 20 years was Darrel Revis, he is around 5'10'' /5'1l'' with great agility and long arms. In my opinion Ed Reed was the best safety in the past 20 years, he is 5'11''.

  • WildDawgWildDawg Posts: 260 ✭✭✭ Junior

    I love Smith's film, and the only reason I figure he was rated so low was because of his size. He doesn't have blazing speed but when you play physical, and with sound technique like Baker you don't need to be a burner. What I'm concerned with is our highest rated corner is blessed with both size and speed but there are reports he half-asses it sometimes. If those reports aren't true and he works his butt off under CKS and CMT, his god-given talents will make him our best corner. His size and speed make it sky's the limit for him.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 7,685 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @WildDawg said:
    I love Smith's film, and the only reason I figure he was rated so low was because of his size. He doesn't have blazing speed but when you play physical, and with sound technique like Baker you don't need to be a burner. What I'm concerned with is our highest rated corner is blessed with both size and speed but there are reports he half-asses it sometimes. If those reports aren't true and he works his butt off under CKS and CMT, his god-given talents will make him our best corner. His size and speed make it sky's the limit for him.

    There are FAR more 5'10'' star CBs than 6'3'' star CBs, and it's not because 5'10'' guys are faster than 6'3'' guys.
    The notion that taller is GENERALLY better does not fit the facts when it comes to CBs.
    The physics of redirecting tightly and quickly favors players 5'10'' to 6'1'' or so.
    That's not to say Campbell won't be a star, he may well be. If he is though HE will be the exception.

  • JoelSidneyKellyJoelSidneyKelly Posts: 1,548 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited February 28

    @WCDawg said:
    Easily the best cover corner I've seen in The NFL over the past 20 years was Darrel Revis

    Better than Deion (6'1, 200)?

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 7,685 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @JoelSidneyKelly said:

    @WCDawg said:
    Easily the best cover corner I've seen in The NFL over the past 20 years was Darrel Revis

    Better than Deion (6'1, 200)?

    Sanders' best years were prior to 20 years ago.
    As for which was the better player in man coverage, it would be close.

  • TeddyTeddy Posts: 2,141 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @WCDawg said:

    @WildDawg said:
    I love Smith's film, and the only reason I figure he was rated so low was because of his size. He doesn't have blazing speed but when you play physical, and with sound technique like Baker you don't need to be a burner. What I'm concerned with is our highest rated corner is blessed with both size and speed but there are reports he half-asses it sometimes. If those reports aren't true and he works his butt off under CKS and CMT, his god-given talents will make him our best corner. His size and speed make it sky's the limit for him.

    There are FAR more 5'10'' star CBs than 6'3'' star CBs, and it's not because 5'10'' guys are faster than 6'3'' guys.
    The notion that taller is GENERALLY better does not fit the facts when it comes to CBs.
    The physics of redirecting tightly and quickly favors players 5'10'' to 6'1'' or so.
    That's not to say Campbell won't be a star, he may well be. If he is though HE will be the exception.

    Not saying you're wrong, but for some perspective... 5'10" - 6'1" covers 42% of the American men population, while 6'3" covers 3% of the American men population. So, there's a 1,400% more likelihood of a good CB in your height range. Not to mention for years anyone 6'3" with solid speed was pushed in the direction of being a receiver, not a CB. And it's just recently started to change, not only from a coaches perspective, but also since DBs are making a lot more money than they used to with pass happy offenses. Based on Kirby's offers, he seems to want 6'-6'2" for his CBs, but will go for the 5'10"-11" range if they have skills (a la Chris Smith).

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 7,685 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @Teddy said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @WildDawg said:
    I love Smith's film, and the only reason I figure he was rated so low was because of his size. He doesn't have blazing speed but when you play physical, and with sound technique like Baker you don't need to be a burner. What I'm concerned with is our highest rated corner is blessed with both size and speed but there are reports he half-asses it sometimes. If those reports aren't true and he works his butt off under CKS and CMT, his god-given talents will make him our best corner. His size and speed make it sky's the limit for him.

    There are FAR more 5'10'' star CBs than 6'3'' star CBs, and it's not because 5'10'' guys are faster than 6'3'' guys.
    The notion that taller is GENERALLY better does not fit the facts when it comes to CBs.
    The physics of redirecting tightly and quickly favors players 5'10'' to 6'1'' or so.
    That's not to say Campbell won't be a star, he may well be. If he is though HE will be the exception.

    Not saying you're wrong, but for some perspective... 5'10" - 6'1" covers 42% of the American men population, while 6'3" covers 3% of the American men population. So, there's a 1,400% more likelihood of a good CB in your height range. Not to mention for years anyone 6'3" with solid speed was pushed in the direction of being a receiver, not a CB. And it's just recently started to change, not only from a coaches perspective, but also since DBs are making a lot more money than they used to with pass happy offenses. Based on Kirby's offers, he seems to want 6'-6'2" for his CBs, but will go for the 5'10"-11" range if they have skills (a la Chris Smith).

    I see your point, but as with basketball if there was a big advantage to being taller I expect we'd see a proliferation of tallness at position. There aren't many 6'6'' 300-plus lb guys walking around but they make up the vast majority of OLs.

  • TeddyTeddy Posts: 2,141 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @WCDawg said:

    @Teddy said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @WildDawg said:
    I love Smith's film, and the only reason I figure he was rated so low was because of his size. He doesn't have blazing speed but when you play physical, and with sound technique like Baker you don't need to be a burner. What I'm concerned with is our highest rated corner is blessed with both size and speed but there are reports he half-asses it sometimes. If those reports aren't true and he works his butt off under CKS and CMT, his god-given talents will make him our best corner. His size and speed make it sky's the limit for him.

    There are FAR more 5'10'' star CBs than 6'3'' star CBs, and it's not because 5'10'' guys are faster than 6'3'' guys.
    The notion that taller is GENERALLY better does not fit the facts when it comes to CBs.
    The physics of redirecting tightly and quickly favors players 5'10'' to 6'1'' or so.
    That's not to say Campbell won't be a star, he may well be. If he is though HE will be the exception.

    Not saying you're wrong, but for some perspective... 5'10" - 6'1" covers 42% of the American men population, while 6'3" covers 3% of the American men population. So, there's a 1,400% more likelihood of a good CB in your height range. Not to mention for years anyone 6'3" with solid speed was pushed in the direction of being a receiver, not a CB. And it's just recently started to change, not only from a coaches perspective, but also since DBs are making a lot more money than they used to with pass happy offenses. Based on Kirby's offers, he seems to want 6'-6'2" for his CBs, but will go for the 5'10"-11" range if they have skills (a la Chris Smith).

    I see your point, but as with basketball if there was a big advantage to being taller I expect we'd see a proliferation of tallness at position. There aren't many 6'6'' 300-plus lb guys walking around but they make up the vast majority of OLs.

    True, but it took decades to get to those size linemen. We're just starting to see this trend in CBs as of recently, and it goes hand in hand with the pass friendly rules of today. Albeit, it is harder to find a 6'3" guy with the coverage skills, than it is with a 6'0" guy with the same skills as there's just so many more to pick from.

  • TeddyTeddy Posts: 2,141 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @WildDawg said:
    I love Smith's film, and the only reason I figure he was rated so low was because of his size. He doesn't have blazing speed but when you play physical, and with sound technique like Baker you don't need to be a burner. What I'm concerned with is our highest rated corner is blessed with both size and speed but there are reports he half-asses it sometimes. If those reports aren't true and he works his butt off under CKS and CMT, his god-given talents will make him our best corner. His size and speed make it sky's the limit for him.

    Just curious, where did you hear he half-asses it sometimes?

  • donmdonm Posts: 6,399 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @WCDawg said:

    @JoelSidneyKelly said:

    @WCDawg said:
    Easily the best cover corner I've seen in The NFL over the past 20 years was Darrel Revis

    Better than Deion (6'1, 200)?

    Sanders' best years were prior to 20 years ago.
    As for which was the better player in man coverage, it would be close.

    I think Revis was less inclined to avoid making tackles. They both were amazingly fast.

  • efreeman3efreeman3 Posts: 61 ✭✭✭ Junior

    It's sad on a dawgnation site when Champ's name isn't mentioned as the best CB in the NFL over the last 20 years. Champ is by far the best all around corner I have ever seen play. He may not get the attention and flash as Deon but for my money I'd take Champ everyday and twice on Sunday!

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 7,685 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @efreeman3 said:
    It's sad on a dawgnation site when Champ's name isn't mentioned as the best CB in the NFL over the last 20 years. Champ is by far the best all around corner I have ever seen play. He may not get the attention and flash as Deon but for my money I'd take Champ everyday and twice on Sunday!

    Champ was maybe 1 notch below those 2 in man coverage. As an overall DB he was at least as good as Revis.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 7,685 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @Teddy said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Teddy said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @WildDawg said:
    I love Smith's film, and the only reason I figure he was rated so low was because of his size. He doesn't have blazing speed but when you play physical, and with sound technique like Baker you don't need to be a burner. What I'm concerned with is our highest rated corner is blessed with both size and speed but there are reports he half-asses it sometimes. If those reports aren't true and he works his butt off under CKS and CMT, his god-given talents will make him our best corner. His size and speed make it sky's the limit for him.

    There are FAR more 5'10'' star CBs than 6'3'' star CBs, and it's not because 5'10'' guys are faster than 6'3'' guys.
    The notion that taller is GENERALLY better does not fit the facts when it comes to CBs.
    The physics of redirecting tightly and quickly favors players 5'10'' to 6'1'' or so.
    That's not to say Campbell won't be a star, he may well be. If he is though HE will be the exception.

    Not saying you're wrong, but for some perspective... 5'10" - 6'1" covers 42% of the American men population, while 6'3" covers 3% of the American men population. So, there's a 1,400% more likelihood of a good CB in your height range. Not to mention for years anyone 6'3" with solid speed was pushed in the direction of being a receiver, not a CB. And it's just recently started to change, not only from a coaches perspective, but also since DBs are making a lot more money than they used to with pass happy offenses. Based on Kirby's offers, he seems to want 6'-6'2" for his CBs, but will go for the 5'10"-11" range if they have skills (a la Chris Smith).

    I see your point, but as with basketball if there was a big advantage to being taller I expect we'd see a proliferation of tallness at position. There aren't many 6'6'' 300-plus lb guys walking around but they make up the vast majority of OLs.

    True, but it took decades to get to those size linemen. We're just starting to see this trend in CBs as of recently, and it goes hand in hand with the pass friendly rules of today. Albeit, it is harder to find a 6'3" guy with the coverage skills, than it is with a 6'0" guy with the same skills as there's just so many more to pick from.

    I won't belabor the issue, but I really don't see much if any long term trend to bigger DBs.

  • KaseyKasey Posts: 4,201 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @JoelSidneyKelly said:

    @WCDawg said:
    Easily the best cover corner I've seen in The NFL over the past 20 years was Darrel Revis

    Better than Deion (6'1, 200)?

    Well, neither of them liked hitting very much...so there's that. Give me Charles Woodson over both of those guys

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 7,685 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited February 28

    @Kasey said:

    @JoelSidneyKelly said:

    @WCDawg said:
    Easily the best cover corner I've seen in The NFL over the past 20 years was Darrel Revis

    Better than Deion (6'1, 200)?

    Well, neither of them liked hitting very much...so there's that. Give me Charles Woodson over both of those guys

    The best CB ever in my opinion was Mike Haynes. He was an anomaly at 6'2''. He could absolutely mirror top receivers, that and he was a very complete DB.

  • donmdonm Posts: 6,399 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @WCDawg said:

    @Kasey said:

    @JoelSidneyKelly said:

    @WCDawg said:
    Easily the best cover corner I've seen in The NFL over the past 20 years was Darrel Revis

    Better than Deion (6'1, 200)?

    Well, neither of them liked hitting very much...so there's that. Give me Charles Woodson over both of those guys

    The best CB ever in my opinion was Mike Haynes. He was anomaly at 6'2''. He could absolutely mirror top receivers, that and he was a very complete DB.

    I always liked Willie Brown from the early Raiders. Not many better than him.

  • JoelSidneyKellyJoelSidneyKelly Posts: 1,548 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @WCDawg said:

    @Kasey said:

    @JoelSidneyKelly said:

    @WCDawg said:
    Easily the best cover corner I've seen in The NFL over the past 20 years was Darrel Revis

    Better than Deion (6'1, 200)?

    Well, neither of them liked hitting very much...so there's that. Give me Charles Woodson over both of those guys

    The best CB ever in my opinion was Mike Haynes. He was an anomaly at 6'2''. He could absolutely mirror top receivers, that and he was a very complete DB.

    Ronnie Lott (6', 203) started at corner for four years at SF.

«1
Sign In or Register to comment.