My experience with Dawgs247/247sports

levander · January 2019

@Bankwalker said:

@scooterdawg said:

@Bankwalker said:

@scooterdawg said:

@RedFive said:

@scooterdawg said:

And you're not being intellectually dishonest by making a point to repeatedly be a dick just because you dislike me due to your opinions on my beliefs? The difference between you and me is that I don't agree with you but I also don't seek out your posts to just be petty ......

Oh, really? That would so beneath you, right? So what did you mean when you said, "I just enjoy riling up such obvious shills as this guy..." if not to be a petty little redheaded soldier?

How many times do you plan on saying, "I'm done" only to jump right back in? I said I was happy to let it go, but then here you come again, and again., and again. In the very same thread.

I like how you come in a thread someone else made, make 10 different assumptions about the person you have no evidence of but are just personal biases, and keep pushing the issue, only to complain the other guy won’t let it go.

WCDawg and nycdawg, I feel like I have a feel for where they’re coming from. But I really can’t tell if you just completely lack any self awareness or are doing this intentionally as a troll job.

MIghtydawg · January 2019

@levander said:

@MIghtydawg said:
This is the perfect example of what is wrong with America. Most people would just simply cancel their membership and chose not to give a business money. However, because of social media and message boards, everyone think that their opinion matters and needs to be heard. Then when they get offended that no one really cares about their opinion, they try to get other people to harm a business or individual. If all you bring to a board is disagreement and criticism instead of thoughts and insights, the board is better off without you.

I love how you wrap yourself in the flag and then make remarks entirely antithetical to one of the most important American values, freedom of speech.

And while you’re doing this you’re completely doing what you’re complaining about other people doing. Why does your opinion matter that you don’t like scooter’s post, but scooter’s opinion doesn’t matter? Is it because you’re a hypocrite?

Freedom of speech does not give you the right to say whatever you want. Freedom of speech prohibits the government from abridging the freedom of speech.

FirePlugDawg · January 2019

@MIghtydawg said:

@levander said:

@MIghtydawg said:
This is the perfect example of what is wrong with America. Most people would just simply cancel their membership and chose not to give a business money. However, because of social media and message boards, everyone think that their opinion matters and needs to be heard. Then when they get offended that no one really cares about their opinion, they try to get other people to harm a business or individual. If all you bring to a board is disagreement and criticism instead of thoughts and insights, the board is better off without you.

I love how you wrap yourself in the flag and then make remarks entirely antithetical to one of the most important American values, freedom of speech.

And while you’re doing this you’re completely doing what you’re complaining about other people doing. Why does your opinion matter that you don’t like scooter’s post, but scooter’s opinion doesn’t matter? Is it because you’re a hypocrite?

Freedom of speech does not give you the right to say whatever you want. Freedom of speech prohibits the government from abridging the freedom of speech.

OT, but many terms ought to be brought up to date/understood properly. The state prohibits 3 or more people "marrying". (Also prohibited is human & non-human, and any combination with an inanimate object. Same would apply.) What is a legal marriage other than 2 people forming one legal and one economic unit under the law. The state (updated version) does not want to give 3 or more people the same "unity" as two people so co-joined/"unified". So, no need to go to religion or morals or history/tradition or starry eyed romantic notions of what a marriage is or should be. The state simply doesn't want to be bothered with it. The economic side, inheritance, "joint tenancy", and such could be a mess with more parties, for example. Smoke 'em if you got 'em.

Bankwalker · January 2019

@levander said:

@Bankwalker said:

@scooterdawg said:

@RedFive said:

@scooterdawg said:
Just thought I’d share my experience in being a paid 247 member. I’ve mentioned it before but I signed up for a “trial” account in the week leading up to ESD. To be fair, I looked and was aware that it wasn’t going to be just a matter of clicking a button to unsubscribe, though of course that’s all it takes to subscribe. According to 247sports in the fine print you must call a 1-800 number or send an email during normal business hours requesting cancellation. Now I personally think that this policy is intentionally set up to squeeze an extra payment out of people by making it a PITA, but as I said I researched enough to find this out so it is what it is and I’m considering contacting the Better Business Bureau to let them know how they run their business.

My main issue with the site, outside of my personal opinions on the Dawgs247 main writers and their biases, is that I have posted under 20 times on the Junkyard board yet have had posts deleted/been banned multiple times with zero explanation. In the description of what you’re buying with a subscription is included premium access to your teams board. I guess that means be able to read what others have posted or whatever you post that agrees completely with the moderators as my comments that led to being banned were mildly critical of Kipp Adams. By mildly critical I mean as to his opinions/how he does his job. Nothing personal and honestly a hell of a lot gentler than much of the pushback Chip or Griff get on this forum.

So anyway, I thought I’d post an exchange between Kipp Adams(one of the two main writers for Dawgs247 and the one who has banned me). In the interest of full disclosure I’m posting the whole thing even though the initial message from me was made when I was pissed off so may seem petty:

I’m gonna buy a membership just because I wasted time reading this crying nonsense. Try reading a user agreement every now and then.

I’m sorry for holding a gun to your head and forcing you to read an Off Topic thread. Thanks for taking the time to comment though. /s. BTW people, I posted this under Off Topic, stated numerous times that I realized it was petty on my part to do so, and put stuff in such as “I’m sure it states in the terms of service” in my replies. You don’t like me or my opinion? Great...didn’t force anyone to read it and by taking the time to leave a sh$tty reply you’re being just as petty as me.

Just as petty? Think about what was in your heart when you originally posted. The post is a deliberate effort to intentionally harm someone's business because you apparently don't think you need to follow their rules. Think about that. You're probably someone who leaves mostly negative reviews on Yelp, too.

I met Kipp 15 years ago. He's a nice guy, and has a family just like the rest of us. Choose to spend your money elsewhere if you want, but trying to convince others not to is a sign of a dark personality.

Saying you "know you can be a dick but try to avoid it" in the same thread you started with purely negative intent is a wee bit intellectually dishonest, no?

Okay, so now people aren’t supposed to say whether or not they like a product on the market because BankWalker has met the person providing the service and thinks he’s a nice guy...

@levander said:

@Bankwalker said:

@scooterdawg said:

@Bankwalker said:

@scooterdawg said:

@RedFive said:

@scooterdawg said:

And you're not being intellectually dishonest by making a point to repeatedly be a dick just because you dislike me due to your opinions on my beliefs? The difference between you and me is that I don't agree with you but I also don't seek out your posts to just be petty ......

Oh, really? That would so beneath you, right? So what did you mean when you said, "I just enjoy riling up such obvious shills as this guy..." if not to be a petty little redheaded soldier?

How many times do you plan on saying, "I'm done" only to jump right back in? I said I was happy to let it go, but then here you come again, and again., and again. In the very same thread.

I like how you come in a thread someone else made, make 10 different assumptions about the person you have no evidence of but are just personal biases, and keep pushing the issue, only to complain the other guy won’t let it go.

You are truly dense, Levander. Why you feel the need to participate in this discussion is not clear, other than you see the opportunity to have a 2 on 1 after being kicked around in solo sparring. Just do me this one favor and try to make an accurate point without any fabrications., such as "make 10 different assumptions about the person you no evidence of buat are just personal biases"

Yesterday, he said he was done. I responded, "Tired of the squabble? Great, but actions speak louder than words." It didn't take him long to fire off another salvo, making it clear he was just getting started. I'm cool with that, too. He has now said twice in this thread that he doesn't seek out my posts to comment just to be a dick, but here I have screenshot where he admits to doing that very thing a few weeks ago. Reap what you sow.

WCDawg and nycdawg, I feel like I have a feel for where they’re coming from. But I really can’t tell if you just completely lack any self awareness or are doing this intentionally as a troll job.

So now you can relate to WCDawg and NYCDawg? "I feel I have a feel...." Whatever that is supposed to mean.
As far as the troll job - SMH - YES, I'm trolling scooter. Scooter knows it, and he knows he's had it coming.

You should step away from this. I've given you a pass once on not pointing it out everytime you post one of your "mental midget" opinions, and took your improved attitude as a silent truce. Just know from here on out that I'm only trying to help. I'm here to help and provide you assistance. You won't need to ask for a thing.

levander · January 2019

@Bankwalker said:

@levander said:

@Bankwalker said:

@scooterdawg said:

@RedFive said:

@scooterdawg said:
Just thought I’d share my experience in being a paid 247 member. I’ve mentioned it before but I signed up for a “trial” account in the week leading up to ESD. To be fair, I looked and was aware that it wasn’t going to be just a matter of clicking a button to unsubscribe, though of course that’s all it takes to subscribe. According to 247sports in the fine print you must call a 1-800 number or send an email during normal business hours requesting cancellation. Now I personally think that this policy is intentionally set up to squeeze an extra payment out of people by making it a PITA, but as I said I researched enough to find this out so it is what it is and I’m considering contacting the Better Business Bureau to let them know how they run their business.

My main issue with the site, outside of my personal opinions on the Dawgs247 main writers and their biases, is that I have posted under 20 times on the Junkyard board yet have had posts deleted/been banned multiple times with zero explanation. In the description of what you’re buying with a subscription is included premium access to your teams board. I guess that means be able to read what others have posted or whatever you post that agrees completely with the moderators as my comments that led to being banned were mildly critical of Kipp Adams. By mildly critical I mean as to his opinions/how he does his job. Nothing personal and honestly a hell of a lot gentler than much of the pushback Chip or Griff get on this forum.

So anyway, I thought I’d post an exchange between Kipp Adams(one of the two main writers for Dawgs247 and the one who has banned me). In the interest of full disclosure I’m posting the whole thing even though the initial message from me was made when I was pissed off so may seem petty:

I’m gonna buy a membership just because I wasted time reading this crying nonsense. Try reading a user agreement every now and then.

I’m sorry for holding a gun to your head and forcing you to read an Off Topic thread. Thanks for taking the time to comment though. /s. BTW people, I posted this under Off Topic, stated numerous times that I realized it was petty on my part to do so, and put stuff in such as “I’m sure it states in the terms of service” in my replies. You don’t like me or my opinion? Great...didn’t force anyone to read it and by taking the time to leave a sh$tty reply you’re being just as petty as me.

Just as petty? Think about what was in your heart when you originally posted. The post is a deliberate effort to intentionally harm someone's business because you apparently don't think you need to follow their rules. Think about that. You're probably someone who leaves mostly negative reviews on Yelp, too.

I met Kipp 15 years ago. He's a nice guy, and has a family just like the rest of us. Choose to spend your money elsewhere if you want, but trying to convince others not to is a sign of a dark personality.

Saying you "know you can be a dick but try to avoid it" in the same thread you started with purely negative intent is a wee bit intellectually dishonest, no?

Okay, so now people aren’t supposed to say whether or not they like a product on the market because BankWalker has met the person providing the service and thinks he’s a nice guy...

@levander said:

@Bankwalker said:

@scooterdawg said:

@Bankwalker said:

@scooterdawg said:

@RedFive said:

@scooterdawg said:

And you're not being intellectually dishonest by making a point to repeatedly be a dick just because you dislike me due to your opinions on my beliefs? The difference between you and me is that I don't agree with you but I also don't seek out your posts to just be petty ......

Oh, really? That would so beneath you, right? So what did you mean when you said, "I just enjoy riling up such obvious shills as this guy..." if not to be a petty little redheaded soldier?

How many times do you plan on saying, "I'm done" only to jump right back in? I said I was happy to let it go, but then here you come again, and again., and again. In the very same thread.

I like how you come in a thread someone else made, make 10 different assumptions about the person you have no evidence of but are just personal biases, and keep pushing the issue, only to complain the other guy won’t let it go.

You are truly dense, Levander. Why you feel the need to participate in this discussion is not clear, other than you see the opportunity to have a 2 on 1 after being kicked around in solo sparring. Just do me this one favor and try to make an accurate point without any fabrications., such as "make 10 different assumptions about the person you no evidence of buat are just personal biases"

Yesterday, he said he was done. I responded, "Tired of the squabble? Great, but actions speak louder than words." It didn't take him long to fire off another salvo, making it clear he was just getting started. I'm cool with that, too. He has now said twice in this thread that he doesn't seek out my posts to comment just to be a dick, but here I have screenshot where he admits to doing that very thing a few weeks ago. Reap what you sow.

WCDawg and nycdawg, I feel like I have a feel for where they’re coming from. But I really can’t tell if you just completely lack any self awareness or are doing this intentionally as a troll job.

So now you can relate to WCDawg and NYCDawg? "I feel I have a feel...." Whatever that is supposed to mean.
As far as the troll job - SMH - YES, I'm trolling scooter. Scooter knows it, and he knows he's had it coming.

You should step away from this. I've given you a pass once on not pointing it out everytime you post one of your "mental midget" opinions, and took your improved attitude as a silent truce. Just know from here on out that I'm only trying to help. I'm here to help and provide you assistance. You won't need to ask for a thing.

LOL @ giving me a pass. The last time you announced you had deemed me to be your next victim, your Gand master plan was apparently to run around and act like the unauthorized alts I’ve got on the board are really me. Everyone withover 500 posts on the board knows they’re not me. But apparently you thought it would be ingenuous for you to fall for the ruse and talk to them like they are me.

You’re not a one man wrecking crew for the board BankWalker. Simply people are nice here. People tolerate you.

You’ve got bizarre views as to what’s going on. This is a public message board. Anybody can comment who wants to. Don’t know where you get this is 2 on 1 because there are more than three people commenting on the clusterfuck that you’ve made this thread.

levander · January 2019

@MIghtydawg said:

@levander said:

@MIghtydawg said:
This is the perfect example of what is wrong with America. Most people would just simply cancel their membership and chose not to give a business money. However, because of social media and message boards, everyone think that their opinion matters and needs to be heard. Then when they get offended that no one really cares about their opinion, they try to get other people to harm a business or individual. If all you bring to a board is disagreement and criticism instead of thoughts and insights, the board is better off without you.

I love how you wrap yourself in the flag and then make remarks entirely antithetical to one of the most important American values, freedom of speech.

And while you’re doing this you’re completely doing what you’re complaining about other people doing. Why does your opinion matter that you don’t like scooter’s post, but scooter’s opinion doesn’t matter? Is it because you’re a hypocrite?

Freedom of speech does not give you the right to say whatever you want. Freedom of speech prohibits the government from abridging the freedom of speech.

What you’re talking about is the first amendment. Most Americans consider freedom of speech more than just legalese in the constitution.

You skipped commenting on why your opinion is important but opinions that you don’t like aren’t. Are you just ceding that was hypocrisy? Or have you some legalese argument you want to make on that issue as well?

scooterdawg · January 2019

@MIghtydawg said:

@levander said:

@MIghtydawg said:
This is the perfect example of what is wrong with America. Most people would just simply cancel their membership and chose not to give a business money. However, because of social media and message boards, everyone think that their opinion matters and needs to be heard. Then when they get offended that no one really cares about their opinion, they try to get other people to harm a business or individual. If all you bring to a board is disagreement and criticism instead of thoughts and insights, the board is better off without you.

I love how you wrap yourself in the flag and then make remarks entirely antithetical to one of the most important American values, freedom of speech.

And while you’re doing this you’re completely doing what you’re complaining about other people doing. Why does your opinion matter that you don’t like scooter’s post, but scooter’s opinion doesn’t matter? Is it because you’re a hypocrite?

Freedom of speech does not give you the right to say whatever you want. Freedom of speech prohibits the government from abridging the freedom of speech.

Umm..actually freedom of speech, at least in practice, means that I can post whatever I want and you can post that you disagree with me.
" However, because of social media and message boards, everyone think that their opinion matters and needs to be heard." implies that you think you(or anyone) should be able to decide which opinions are valid and which aren't.

You or I can disagree with anyone's opinion or think it's incredibly ****, but just because you don't agree with something doesn't make it invalid. I'm quite sure that I(or anyone) could talk politics, sports, or the color of the sky with you(or anyone) and find things we disagree on but I'm not arrogant enough to think that I'm always right and everyone is wrong and that only opinions I agree with should be aired.

I'm not debating that you have a right to disagree with me or let me know you think my opinion is dumb, just that I shouldn't even be able to say it. FWIW, I agree with you about social media and entitlement being a problem. I just think that another big problem with "things today" is people getting angry when someone has the audacity to have a different POV from them to the point of writing them off as somehow lesser people. It's just as pernicious as having a sense of entitlement and I find myself doing it too, though I often realize it only after the fact.

I haven't DVed anyone who isn't an obvious troll for disagreeing with me and didn't try to edit things to make myself look better in the screenshots and even admitted pettiness on my part. The other reason I posted it is that no I don't think I'm special and shouldn't have to follow the rules, BUT, I am/was a paying customer for a "service" so yes I DO think that I should have been given warnings/explanations for being censored when I was not profane, and was not the only person saying the same stuff about Nolan being dropped in their rankings.

Had I received a reply other than the "I can do what I want, CBS pays my checks so I don't care what anyone thinks, and I have a much better reputation than those DN guys so how dare you question me" attitude I got I wouldn't have posted it.

I had a bad experience with Amazon last week with the third order in the last five I've made with them being outright lost/delivered to the wrong place. I pay them a fee every year so I certainly called and complained and they handled it in a respectful manner as they realize that keeping customers happy is a priority. I didn't feel the need to find an Amazon forum and share my experience with others as it was handled professionally. I even noted earlier that it's not strictly Kipp's job to be good at customer service but since he's the one who chooses to ban people w/o explanation then it's not my problem if he feels the need to respond in a condescending manner and I decide to show it to others. I even told him I was going to do so.

He's a "professional" who gets a paycheck, I'm not. Seems like y'all who spend your time bemoaning "things today" and painting a rosy picture of the past forget some of the lessons of the past such as valuing your customers and realizing where your paycheck comes from. Did I expect different treatment from other paying customers? Actually no. Did I expect to not have comments deleted or be banned with no warning, explanation, or timeframe? Yes. Oh, and btw, I sent an email to the general 247 support address before I started the interaction with Kipp and didn't hear anything. Near as I can tell it and their 1-800 number are mostly for people trying to cancel subs.

MIghtydawg · January 2019

No, freedom of speech does not in fact mean that you can post whatever you want. The First Amendment says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances"

The first amendment protects you from the government punishing or censoring or oppressing your speech. It doesn't apply to private organizations. 247, Dawgnation, Twitter, Facebook, etc. can ban you for any reason or no reason at all.

scooterdawg · January 2019

Anyway, I'm sorry to everyone for starting this thread. Not because I can't handle people disagreeing with me or care if someone agrees with me that I was being petty, but because it brought out my troll and turned this into a quasi-political life view argument.

Could I have been more civil in my initial message to Kipp? Yup, definitely. I was pissed off and perhaps I'm the only one who reacts to stuff in the moment differently than with time to reflect but I doubt it.

But again, I'm the one paying money and he's the one getting paid so I fail to see how I should be held to a higher standard of professionalism than the professional. I'd feel the same if it were any other company I do business with. If you take the day off to have to wait for the cable guy and he doesn't show up do you not call the company and complain? If they fail to give you an explanation and tell you that you don't pay their paychecks do you just shut up because you're you're not entitled to be treated like they give a crap about your wasted time?

Speaking of wasting my time I'm aware that I'm not going to change anyone's opinion so hopefully this thread can die.

levander · January 2019

@MIghtydawg said:
No, freedom of speech does not in fact mean that you can post whatever you want. The First Amendment says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances"

The first amendment protects you from the government punishing or censoring or oppressing your speech. It doesn't apply to private organizations. 247, Dawgnation, Twitter, Facebook, etc. can ban you for any reason or no reason at all.

You’ve got a weird view of the world. Freedom of speech and the first amendment aren’t the same thing.

Don’t let the government define what you believe.

HumbleYourself · January 2019

Worst thread ever status has been achieved. Can we go back to discussing Justin Fields waiver case, or make some jokes about the transfer portal now? Pretty Please!

scooterdawg · January 2019

@MIghtydawg said:
No, freedom of speech does not in fact mean that you can post whatever you want. The First Amendment says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances"

The first amendment protects you from the government punishing or censoring or oppressing your speech. It doesn't apply to private organizations. 247, Dawgnation, Twitter, Facebook, etc. can ban you for any reason or no reason at all.

You seem to be missing my point. I'm aware of the first amendment, minored in poli-sci. You're right that privately owned sites can censor as they see fit. Just as I can make my displeasure known however I want and if the site wants to censor it then they can. Had I posted on the 247 forums that I thought it was crap that they deleted my stuff/banned me with no explanation I'm sure that would have been deleted too. Therefore I used my freedom to post about it somewhere else as they didn't give me the option to do it there.

They have the power to censor me over there and DN has the power to do so here: DN hasn't chosen to. This country is truly an odd place these days when the President can call people traitors and threaten people on Twitter and that's fine with many, but dare disagree with them and you should be censored. Part of me wants to see us return to this golden age where everyone kept their mouths shut and accepted their place to see what y'all would then find to complain about. Probably a lot more complaining about black lung and loss of limbs from industrial accidents since back in the good old days people just shut up and were happy just to take whatever a company gave them lol.

And bemoaning the "social media" age, particularly in regards to a website, is incredibly disingenuous. Without Twitter, apps, and smartphones a site like 247 wouldn't be nearly as popular as it is. You can't use social media and easy access to contributors to make money and then complain about it. I certainly didn't force Kipp to reply to me on a weekend or even at all.1

MIghtydawg · January 2019

@levander said:

@MIghtydawg said:
No, freedom of speech does not in fact mean that you can post whatever you want. The First Amendment says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances"

The first amendment protects you from the government punishing or censoring or oppressing your speech. It doesn't apply to private organizations. 247, Dawgnation, Twitter, Facebook, etc. can ban you for any reason or no reason at all.

You’ve got a weird view of the world. Freedom of speech and the first amendment aren’t the same thing.

Don’t let the government define what you believe.

You are right. These days being educated is considered weird. You ought to consider trying to be weird too.

Muffingod · January 2019

On a lighter note I learned that clusterfuck gets through the censors thanks to @levander so that could be fun.

CZCashvilleDawg · January 2019

Saw Kipp say Kirby is visiting someone tonight, who would that be ? @scooterdawg

My experience with Dawgs247/247sports

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