Is Butch Jones to become Alabama's "Head Coach in Waiting"? Here's why It makes perfect sense...

Red_N_BlackRed_N_Black Posts: 219 ✭✭✭✭ Senior

We've seen the sad results when a highly successful head coach suddenly retires and their program is left in disarray. A good example is when "the old ball coach" abruptly gave it up at USCjr. I feel sure that Coach Saban would never do this to Alabama. When he finally retires (most likely in the next 2-3 years) I believe that he will turn it over to a coach on his staff at that time. Thus the current move to bring Butch Jones aboard. Why wouldn't Bama just go out and bring in Dabo or Jimbo or Kirby or even Jeremy. There's a couple of good reasons: None of these guys want the job. Plus they're all tied up for years. Hence "a head coach in waiting" is the perfect answer. But why Butch Jones you ask?

First of all CBJ checks all the boxes:
1. SEC coaching experience
2. Head coaching experience (3 schools)
3. An excellent recruiter
4. Reasonably Young
5. Most importantly "No Threat"

And what does "No Threat" mean. Let me explain. When the legendary Bud Wilkinson finally retired at Oklahoma, his hand picked successor was Asst. Coach Gomer Jones. Wilkinson's legacy was thus safe because CGJ was practically a sure bet to fail to come close to matching the stellar record of CBW. So it looks like Coach Butch Jones could very well be "Alabama's Head Coach in Waiting". Saban's legacy would be assured. You heard it here first!

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Comments

  • donmdonm Posts: 6,844 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @Red_N_Black said:
    We've seen the sad results when a highly successful head coach suddenly retires and their program is left in disarray. A good example is when "the old ball coach" abruptly gave it up at USCjr. I feel sure that Coach Saban would never do this to Alabama. When he finally retires (most likely in the next 2-3 years) I believe that he will turn it over to a coach on his staff at that time. Thus the current move to bring Butch Jones aboard. Why wouldn't Bama just go out and bring in Dabo or Jimbo or Kirby or even Jeremy. There's a couple of good reasons: None of these guys want the job. Plus they're all tied up for years. Hence "a head coach in waiting" is the perfect answer. But why Butch Jones you ask?

    First of all CBJ checks all the boxes:
    1. SEC coaching experience
    2. Head coaching experience (3 schools)
    3. An excellent recruiter
    4. Reasonably Young
    5. Most importantly "No Threat"

    And what does "No Threat" mean. Let me explain. When the legendary Bud Wilkinson finally retired at Oklahoma, his hand picked successor was Asst. Coach Gomer Jones. Wilkinson's legacy was thus safe because CGJ was practically a sure bet to fail to come close to matching the stellar record of CBW. So it looks like Coach Butch Jones could very well be "Alabama's Head Coach in Waiting". Saban's legacy would be assured. You heard it here first!

    I think you may be a closet conspiracy theorist.

  • JRT812JRT812 Posts: 2,188 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Taking over Bama would be a heck of a career rebuild brick by brick for ole butch.

  • moosmoos Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @donm said:

    @Red_N_Black said:
    We've seen the sad results when a highly successful head coach suddenly retires and their program is left in disarray. A good example is when "the old ball coach" abruptly gave it up at USCjr. I feel sure that Coach Saban would never do this to Alabama. When he finally retires (most likely in the next 2-3 years) I believe that he will turn it over to a coach on his staff at that time. Thus the current move to bring Butch Jones aboard. Why wouldn't Bama just go out and bring in Dabo or Jimbo or Kirby or even Jeremy. There's a couple of good reasons: None of these guys want the job. Plus they're all tied up for years. Hence "a head coach in waiting" is the perfect answer. But why Butch Jones you ask?

    First of all CBJ checks all the boxes:
    1. SEC coaching experience
    2. Head coaching experience (3 schools)
    3. An excellent recruiter
    4. Reasonably Young
    5. Most importantly "No Threat"

    And what does "No Threat" mean. Let me explain. When the legendary Bud Wilkinson finally retired at Oklahoma, his hand picked successor was Asst. Coach Gomer Jones. Wilkinson's legacy was thus safe because CGJ was practically a sure bet to fail to come close to matching the stellar record of CBW. So it looks like Coach Butch Jones could very well be "Alabama's Head Coach in Waiting". Saban's legacy would be assured. You heard it here first!

    I think you may be a closet conspiracy theorist.

    That's because it was easier to build a Faraday cage in the closet than in the dining room.

  • BobcatGradBobcatGrad Posts: 961 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    They will bring Joe Kine’s back before they name Butch as HC.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 9,150 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    I should be ahead of Jones.

  • otis1105otis1105 Posts: 25 ✭✭ Sophomore

    If Saban retires in the next 3 years I think it's Pruitt. He should have enough success at UTjr by year 3 that there is hope that he could be a good coach at a better school like Ala. Then Muschamp gets the job at UT because he's a good recruiter and proving to be a pretty good coach at Scar but his ceiling at Scar is 9 wins. Muschamp and Pruitt run a similar system so the players will be in place and it's the best possible transition for all schools.

  • otis1105otis1105 Posts: 25 ✭✭ Sophomore

    Like Cowturd I may have an inside source

  • mmoondawgmmoondawg Posts: 4 ✭ Freshman

    UGA better come off of the hip BIG TIME (when or before) Saban retires. If he continues what he’s started at UGA there’s no telling what Bama will offer Kirby. I don’t think UGA would ever match Bama’s offer so I’m just hoping Kirby and family are happy enough in Athens to stay put.

  • TeddyTeddy Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @mmoondawg said:
    UGA better come off of the hip BIG TIME (when or before) Saban retires. If he continues what he’s started at UGA there’s no telling what Bama will offer Kirby. I don’t think UGA would ever match Bama’s offer so I’m just hoping Kirby and family are happy enough in Athens to stay put.

    UGA will pony up enough money to keep Kirby from Bama. If Kirby left for Bama, he'd go from the most loved man in Georgia to the most hated. Not sure he'd be welcomed back. haha. Plus he has all the in-state talent he could want, and could be the coach that made UGA a dynasty. Having that as your legacy isn't something he'd want to pass up on for his home state.

  • BankwalkerBankwalker Posts: 1,207 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited March 7

    Kriby stays at UGA for the same reasons Dabo isnt taking the Bama job. Pruitt might take that job, but if it were offered it would only be because he had started beating Kirby and Muschamp. That would eliminate Muschamp from consideration as his replacement in Knoxville. Since Pruitt isnt going to beat Kirby then it is safe to say none of that is happening.

    As for Butch Jones...Good grief. He doesnt check any of the boxes. Experience going 0-8 in the SEC isnt a plus on many resumes Ive ever seen. The primary fault in this suggestion is the assumption that Saban gets to pick his heir apparent. Bud Wikinson was also the AD at Oklahoma, but even that wouldnt assure his right to pick the successor. RE: Vince Dooley, who didnt want to hire Ray Goff.

  • pgjacksonpgjackson Posts: 3,394 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    I am 100% confident Jones is not the coach in waiting at Bama. That is absurd. Bama fans would not tolerate that.

  • Red_N_BlackRed_N_Black Posts: 219 ✭✭✭✭ Senior

    @donm said:

    @Red_N_Black said:
    We've seen the sad results when a highly successful head coach suddenly retires and their program is left in disarray. A good example is when "the old ball coach" abruptly gave it up at USCjr. I feel sure that Coach Saban would never do this to Alabama. When he finally retires (most likely in the next 2-3 years) I believe that he will turn it over to a coach on his staff at that time. Thus the current move to bring Butch Jones aboard. Why wouldn't Bama just go out and bring in Dabo or Jimbo or Kirby or even Jeremy. There's a couple of good reasons: None of these guys want the job. Plus they're all tied up for years. Hence "a head coach in waiting" is the perfect answer. But why Butch Jones you ask?

    First of all CBJ checks all the boxes:
    1. SEC coaching experience
    2. Head coaching experience (3 schools)
    3. An excellent recruiter
    4. Reasonably Young
    5. Most importantly "No Threat"

    And what does "No Threat" mean. Let me explain. When the legendary Bud Wilkinson finally retired at Oklahoma, his hand picked successor was Asst. Coach Gomer Jones. Wilkinson's legacy was thus safe because CGJ was practically a sure bet to fail to come close to matching the stellar record of CBW. So it looks like Coach Butch Jones could very well be "Alabama's Head Coach in Waiting". Saban's legacy would be assured. You heard it here first!

    I think you may be a closet conspiracy theorist.

    Why not Butch? He'll be by far the most qualified choice on the Bama staff as it is currently constituted. Think about it. First year as an analyst. Second year as an on the field coach. Third year Asst. Head Coach. All the while soaking up "The Process" from the Master. He'll become Saban's ultimate reclamation project. By then pretty much all Bamers will be cheering the announcement of Butch Jones as the next Alabama Head Football Coach.

  • donmdonm Posts: 6,844 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @Red_N_Black said:

    @donm said:

    @Red_N_Black said:
    We've seen the sad results when a highly successful head coach suddenly retires and their program is left in disarray. A good example is when "the old ball coach" abruptly gave it up at USCjr. I feel sure that Coach Saban would never do this to Alabama. When he finally retires (most likely in the next 2-3 years) I believe that he will turn it over to a coach on his staff at that time. Thus the current move to bring Butch Jones aboard. Why wouldn't Bama just go out and bring in Dabo or Jimbo or Kirby or even Jeremy. There's a couple of good reasons: None of these guys want the job. Plus they're all tied up for years. Hence "a head coach in waiting" is the perfect answer. But why Butch Jones you ask?

    First of all CBJ checks all the boxes:
    1. SEC coaching experience
    2. Head coaching experience (3 schools)
    3. An excellent recruiter
    4. Reasonably Young
    5. Most importantly "No Threat"

    And what does "No Threat" mean. Let me explain. When the legendary Bud Wilkinson finally retired at Oklahoma, his hand picked successor was Asst. Coach Gomer Jones. Wilkinson's legacy was thus safe because CGJ was practically a sure bet to fail to come close to matching the stellar record of CBW. So it looks like Coach Butch Jones could very well be "Alabama's Head Coach in Waiting". Saban's legacy would be assured. You heard it here first!

    I think you may be a closet conspiracy theorist.

    Why not Butch? He'll be by far the most qualified choice on the Bama staff as it is currently constituted. Think about it. First year as an analyst. Second year as an on the field coach. Third year Asst. Head Coach. All the while soaking up "The Process" from the Master. He'll become Saban's ultimate reclamation project. By then pretty much all Bamers will be cheering the announcement of Butch Jones as the next Alabama Head Football Coach.

    Isn't it more likely BJ would find another HC job before those 4 years are up?

  • mattmd2mattmd2 Posts: 724 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @donm said:

    @Red_N_Black said:

    @donm said:

    @Red_N_Black said:
    We've seen the sad results when a highly successful head coach suddenly retires and their program is left in disarray. A good example is when "the old ball coach" abruptly gave it up at USCjr. I feel sure that Coach Saban would never do this to Alabama. When he finally retires (most likely in the next 2-3 years) I believe that he will turn it over to a coach on his staff at that time. Thus the current move to bring Butch Jones aboard. Why wouldn't Bama just go out and bring in Dabo or Jimbo or Kirby or even Jeremy. There's a couple of good reasons: None of these guys want the job. Plus they're all tied up for years. Hence "a head coach in waiting" is the perfect answer. But why Butch Jones you ask?

    First of all CBJ checks all the boxes:
    1. SEC coaching experience
    2. Head coaching experience (3 schools)
    3. An excellent recruiter
    4. Reasonably Young
    5. Most importantly "No Threat"

    And what does "No Threat" mean. Let me explain. When the legendary Bud Wilkinson finally retired at Oklahoma, his hand picked successor was Asst. Coach Gomer Jones. Wilkinson's legacy was thus safe because CGJ was practically a sure bet to fail to come close to matching the stellar record of CBW. So it looks like Coach Butch Jones could very well be "Alabama's Head Coach in Waiting". Saban's legacy would be assured. You heard it here first!

    I think you may be a closet conspiracy theorist.

    Why not Butch? He'll be by far the most qualified choice on the Bama staff as it is currently constituted. Think about it. First year as an analyst. Second year as an on the field coach. Third year Asst. Head Coach. All the while soaking up "The Process" from the Master. He'll become Saban's ultimate reclamation project. By then pretty much all Bamers will be cheering the announcement of Butch Jones as the next Alabama Head Football Coach.

    Isn't it more likely BJ would find another HC job before those 4 years are up?

    Not necessarily. Keep in mind he's still being paid as a HC (from UT buyout), so money isn't a factor for him right now. He'll then be taking over one of the best programs in the country and getting that HC pay around the same time his buyout ends.

  • pgjacksonpgjackson Posts: 3,394 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @Red_N_Black said:

    @donm said:

    @Red_N_Black said:
    We've seen the sad results when a highly successful head coach suddenly retires and their program is left in disarray. A good example is when "the old ball coach" abruptly gave it up at USCjr. I feel sure that Coach Saban would never do this to Alabama. When he finally retires (most likely in the next 2-3 years) I believe that he will turn it over to a coach on his staff at that time. Thus the current move to bring Butch Jones aboard. Why wouldn't Bama just go out and bring in Dabo or Jimbo or Kirby or even Jeremy. There's a couple of good reasons: None of these guys want the job. Plus they're all tied up for years. Hence "a head coach in waiting" is the perfect answer. But why Butch Jones you ask?

    First of all CBJ checks all the boxes:
    1. SEC coaching experience
    2. Head coaching experience (3 schools)
    3. An excellent recruiter
    4. Reasonably Young
    5. Most importantly "No Threat"

    And what does "No Threat" mean. Let me explain. When the legendary Bud Wilkinson finally retired at Oklahoma, his hand picked successor was Asst. Coach Gomer Jones. Wilkinson's legacy was thus safe because CGJ was practically a sure bet to fail to come close to matching the stellar record of CBW. So it looks like Coach Butch Jones could very well be "Alabama's Head Coach in Waiting". Saban's legacy would be assured. You heard it here first!

    I think you may be a closet conspiracy theorist.

    Why not Butch? He'll be by far the most qualified choice on the Bama staff as it is currently constituted. Think about it. First year as an analyst. Second year as an on the field coach. Third year Asst. Head Coach. All the while soaking up "The Process" from the Master. He'll become Saban's ultimate reclamation project. By then pretty much all Bamers will be cheering the announcement of Butch Jones as the next Alabama Head Football Coach.

    Why? Because he is not a good HC. That's why. It's pretty simple. You don't lead UT to a 14-24 SEC record and then become the HC of the greatest college football dynasty in history. He did OK at C. Mich and Cinn, but in the big leagues he was not good. I would LOVE to see him take over Bama, but it ain't happening. The boosters would not tolerate it. His track record speaks for itself. He's not even a coach right now, he's an advisor. Basically just another set of eyes. He won't be at Bama in 2019. Some low-level D1 school will pick him up. Maybe go back to Cincy.

  • TeddyTeddy Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @Red_N_Black said:

    @donm said:

    @Red_N_Black said:
    We've seen the sad results when a highly successful head coach suddenly retires and their program is left in disarray. A good example is when "the old ball coach" abruptly gave it up at USCjr. I feel sure that Coach Saban would never do this to Alabama. When he finally retires (most likely in the next 2-3 years) I believe that he will turn it over to a coach on his staff at that time. Thus the current move to bring Butch Jones aboard. Why wouldn't Bama just go out and bring in Dabo or Jimbo or Kirby or even Jeremy. There's a couple of good reasons: None of these guys want the job. Plus they're all tied up for years. Hence "a head coach in waiting" is the perfect answer. But why Butch Jones you ask?

    First of all CBJ checks all the boxes:
    1. SEC coaching experience
    2. Head coaching experience (3 schools)
    3. An excellent recruiter
    4. Reasonably Young
    5. Most importantly "No Threat"

    And what does "No Threat" mean. Let me explain. When the legendary Bud Wilkinson finally retired at Oklahoma, his hand picked successor was Asst. Coach Gomer Jones. Wilkinson's legacy was thus safe because CGJ was practically a sure bet to fail to come close to matching the stellar record of CBW. So it looks like Coach Butch Jones could very well be "Alabama's Head Coach in Waiting". Saban's legacy would be assured. You heard it here first!

    I think you may be a closet conspiracy theorist.

    Why not Butch? He'll be by far the most qualified choice on the Bama staff as it is currently constituted. Think about it. First year as an analyst. Second year as an on the field coach. Third year Asst. Head Coach. All the while soaking up "The Process" from the Master. He'll become Saban's ultimate reclamation project. By then pretty much all Bamers will be cheering the announcement of Butch Jones as the next Alabama Head Football Coach.

    Tosh Lupoi would be the longest serving assistant 3 years from now, and he can recruit his tail off. He has risen to DC in just a few years, mainly due to turnover. But obviously Saban isn't going to put him there if he doesn't think he can get it done. Lupoi would be the one that has soaked up "Saban's process" longer than Butch. Also, you seem stuck on the fact that the hire will have to come from within Bama's staff, which isn't the case. If Bama doesn't want a fast rising coach, like Lupoi, then they'd go get a coach that's done well as a HC elsewhere (and I wouldn't qualify Butch in the category of doing well elsewhere)... Feel free to run this theory on a Bama board and see what they say. I'm pretty confident it wouldn't be pretty for you.

  • Red_N_BlackRed_N_Black Posts: 219 ✭✭✭✭ Senior

    History has shown us time and time again that when it comes time for a legendary coach to retire, his replacement is almost always a "Sacrificial Lamb" type. Sometimes the legendary coach is given the privilege of selecting his replacement from one of his current staff. Thus the "No Threat" choice is made, the program immediately declines and the retiring legend's legacy is enhanced and preserved.

    Sometimes the new coach is picked by the AD and or Athletic Board. When this happens they are always faced with the fact that no current highly thought of coach wants follow and be compared to a legend. Again the choice becomes a "Sacrificial Lamb" type of coach. After 2 or 3 mediocre or even losing years, the hapless coach is fired and then replaced with a proven winner who is given 3 or 4 more years to rebuilt the downtrodden program to it's former glory.

    This is the way it has always worked and unfortunately this is what Alabama is facing for several years after Saban retires.

  • BojanglesInsiderBojanglesInsider Posts: 2,120 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    I don't know. Red Sparrow was entertaining, but it wasn't that sort of entertainment, iykwim. Jennifer Lawrence couldn't act to save her life, but her birthday suit is easy on the eyes.

  • andycappsandycapps Posts: 294 ✭✭✭ Junior

    Bartender, I'll have what he's having.

    Sorry, I appreciate thinking outside the box but I see zero chance of this being the case. This is simply the case of Bama being able to get a former SEC head coach to be an analyst for $45k a year while Tennessee pays his multi-million dollar buyout. He can rehabilitate himself for a year or so until he fills an assistant vacancy there or another program.

    He could actually be a decent OC somewhere eventually, but being head coach would have to be a lower tier stop where he could prove himself like Kiffin is.

  • BamaDawgBamaDawg Posts: 1,845 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    I like the idea .... CBJ then hires Derek Dooley as his OC and Todd Grantham as his DC... at least thats what my inside, inside, inside man says

  • Red_N_BlackRed_N_Black Posts: 219 ✭✭✭✭ Senior

    @BamaDawg said:
    I like the idea .... CBJ then hires Derek Dooley as his OC and Todd Grantham as his DC... at least thats what my inside, inside, inside man says

    I can't wait for them Bamers to catch this act over in Tusslelooza. They'll probably forget about ole' Nick Whats his name.

    But ya know, it's kinda like the old Sam Cooke song says: "It's been a long, a long time coming - But I know a change gonna come, oh yes it will"
    I

  • 3rdshift3rdshift Posts: 260 ✭✭✭ Junior

    @BiffLowman said:
    I smell weed.

    agree ...not that new school organic medical grade....some of that old school gas tank weed...hallucinations from the grass or the gas????... brick by brick...5 star high...sorry 2 easy

  • ghostofuga1ghostofuga1 Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @3rdshift said:

    @BiffLowman said:
    I smell weed.

    agree ...not that new school organic medical grade....some of that old school gas tank weed...hallucinations from the grass or the gas????... brick by brick...5 star high...sorry 2 easy

    Well, if it was the Red Bud or Black Bud from the mid to late 70's, the OP would have forgot what he posting after the second sentence and would have gone to the kitchen and made some Steakums sandwiches. Not much like it out there these days.....at least that's what I've heard from a friend of my brother-in-law's, ex- wife's cousin..........

    Just sayin'....

  • Dawgnation33Dawgnation33 Posts: 49 ✭✭ Sophomore

    As a Dawg fan and Falcons fan hopefully Saban retires next year and they hire Sark as the HC

  • BiffLowmanBiffLowman Posts: 300 ✭✭✭✭ Senior

    @ghostofuga1 said:

    @3rdshift said:

    @BiffLowman said:
    I smell weed.

    agree ...not that new school organic medical grade....some of that old school gas tank weed...hallucinations from the grass or the gas????... brick by brick...5 star high...sorry 2 easy

    Well, if it was the Red Bud or Black Bud from the mid to late 70's, the OP would have forgot what he posting after the second sentence and would have gone to the kitchen and made some Steakums sandwiches. Not much like it out there these days.....at least that's what I've heard from a friend of my brother-in-law's, ex- wife's cousin..........

    Just sayin'....

    KIds today have no clue what a Steakum sandwich is! That there is a problem.

  • 3rdshift3rdshift Posts: 260 ✭✭✭ Junior

    @BiffLowman said:

    @ghostofuga1 said:

    @3rdshift said:

    @BiffLowman said:
    I smell weed.

    agree ...not that new school organic medical grade....some of that old school gas tank weed...hallucinations from the grass or the gas????... brick by brick...5 star high...sorry 2 easy

    Well, if it was the Red Bud or Black Bud from the mid to late 70's, the OP would have forgot what he posting after the second sentence and would have gone to the kitchen and made some Steakums sandwiches. Not much like it out there these days.....at least that's what I've heard from a friend of my brother-in-law's, ex- wife's cousin..........

    Just sayin'....

    KIds today have no clue what a Steakum sandwich is! That there is a problem.

    I have no idea what a steakum is ....but this is the greatest post I've ever read on this board...Touche sir...touche

  • JRT812JRT812 Posts: 2,188 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @3rdshift said:

    @BiffLowman said:

    @ghostofuga1 said:

    @3rdshift said:

    @BiffLowman said:
    I smell weed.

    agree ...not that new school organic medical grade....some of that old school gas tank weed...hallucinations from the grass or the gas????... brick by brick...5 star high...sorry 2 easy

    Well, if it was the Red Bud or Black Bud from the mid to late 70's, the OP would have forgot what he posting after the second sentence and would have gone to the kitchen and made some Steakums sandwiches. Not much like it out there these days.....at least that's what I've heard from a friend of my brother-in-law's, ex- wife's cousin..........

    Just sayin'....

    KIds today have no clue what a Steakum sandwich is! That there is a problem.

    I have no idea what a steakum is ....but this is the greatest post I've ever read on this board...Touche sir...touche

    In my opinion a steakum sandwich is equivalent to the hotdog injected with cheese....which kids today have no clue about either....thank goodness.

  • pgjacksonpgjackson Posts: 3,394 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @JRT812 said:

    @3rdshift said:

    @BiffLowman said:

    @ghostofuga1 said:

    @3rdshift said:

    @BiffLowman said:
    I smell weed.

    agree ...not that new school organic medical grade....some of that old school gas tank weed...hallucinations from the grass or the gas????... brick by brick...5 star high...sorry 2 easy

    Well, if it was the Red Bud or Black Bud from the mid to late 70's, the OP would have forgot what he posting after the second sentence and would have gone to the kitchen and made some Steakums sandwiches. Not much like it out there these days.....at least that's what I've heard from a friend of my brother-in-law's, ex- wife's cousin..........

    Just sayin'....

    KIds today have no clue what a Steakum sandwich is! That there is a problem.

    I have no idea what a steakum is ....but this is the greatest post I've ever read on this board...Touche sir...touche

    In my opinion a steakum sandwich is equivalent to the hotdog injected with cheese....which kids today have no clue about either....thank goodness.

    Oh, the memories...

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