Hey folks - as a member of the DawgNation community, please remember to abide by simple rules of civil engagement with other members:
- Please no inappropriate usernames (remember that there may be youngsters in the room)
- Personal attacks on other community members are unacceptable, practice the good manners your mama taught you when engaging with fellow Dawg fans
- Use common sense and respect personal differences in the community: sexual and other inappropriate language or imagery, political rants and belittling the opinions of others will get your posts deleted and result in warnings and/ or banning from the forum
- 3/17/19 UPDATE -- We've updated the permissions for our "Football" and "Commit to the G" recruiting message boards. We aim to be the best free board out there and that has not changed. We do now ask that all of you good people register as a member of our forum in order to see the sugar that is falling from our skies, so to speak.
- Please no inappropriate usernames (remember that there may be youngsters in the room)
- Personal attacks on other community members are unacceptable, practice the good manners your mama taught you when engaging with fellow Dawg fans
- Use common sense and respect personal differences in the community: sexual and other inappropriate language or imagery, political rants and belittling the opinions of others will get your posts deleted and result in warnings and/ or banning from the forum
- 3/17/19 UPDATE -- We've updated the permissions for our "Football" and "Commit to the G" recruiting message boards. We aim to be the best free board out there and that has not changed. We do now ask that all of you good people register as a member of our forum in order to see the sugar that is falling from our skies, so to speak.
Options
ESPN Fromm story
This is a good story about Fromm. The part that jumped out to me was the recruiting of Fromm. It shows just how bad it was.
www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/20672819/georgia-bulldogs-jake-fromm-handles-moment-first-career-start-notre-dame-fighting-irish
Comments
@BamaDawg Link is busted, but I appreciate the post...if you can fix the post I'd like to read it! Don't know where it broke
link worked for me
It's not working for me either on mobile.
http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/20672819/georgia-bulldogs-jake-fromm-handles-moment-first-career-start-notre-dame-fighting-irish
@RetiredRedcoat Maybe this one will work? Posting from mobile...above link did not work on mobile for me either.
I just went back to it and tried to copy it again and it gives the address... not for sure what to do... sorry
Thanks my friend
@insertusernamehere That one worked. Thanks for the fix, and great find @BamaDawg !
I wonder if the Fromm's misinterpreted Schottenheimer's question about if Jake had other offers.
Richt had a history of recruiting elite athletes by basically giving them a good depth chart deal. Presumably as much for the player's benefit as for the school's. Although Kirby has proven that's not necessarily in the school's best interest. And maybe with the sense of entitlement it created, it wasn't in the player's best interest either.
From memory, I read a story awhile back about Hutson Mason's recruitment. When Bobo and Mason first talked, he told Mason they weren't taking another QB' that year. That gave Mason time to look around for a better deal than being the backup behind Aaron Murray who had just redshirted the year before, was expected to start, and still had four years of eligibility left.
Later in the recruitment season, Bobo came back to Mason and said they changed their mind, they were taking a QB. At that point, Mason had no better offers, so he ended up committing to Georgia...
It would be very weird indeed if UGA just didn't offer Fromm because he already had offers. Very, very **** weird. They were probably just doing what Richt had a history of doing and he wasn't stacking the depth chart. He already had a QB he had promised the world to. And he didn't want another QB right behind him, maybe ending up like Richt's QB career did at Miami.
I agree. It was weird but goes some way to explain why there were so many players that did better at the pro level than the college level. There were a lot who took plays off and/or didn't practice hard because they had a guaranteed starting spot.
It was somewhere in the media I heard it, I forget exactly where. And it wasn't a direct reference to Richt when they said it. But if you thought about it a couple of seconds, it made sense.
That's actually how I've been thinking for the last month or so about the Bulldogs under Richt, an entitlement culture. That may change though. I don't feel entirely comfortable with that interpretation. But there is truth to it.
Fromm's story is very cinderella ! I just know this as a long time dog .........that I am so ungry for happy ending .
Kirby has certainly mentioned the word 'entitled' a few times since he got here. While I don't think Richt was just letting players do what they wanted, I think it's fair to say that he had a different philosophy than Kirby does. Richt cared a lot about his players and I can see that caring taking the form of 'supporting his guys' and not 'competition'.
Kirby's approach to recruiting and players is very much an 'iron sharpens iron' culture. He believes that the best way for his players to get better is to bring in more awesome players and have them push each other. I mean, he's got 2 5-star QB's in the clubhouse right now and he's fighting tooth and nail to sign a third who will surely worry both of them that they could lose their jobs. There aren't many other programs in college football where a 5 star QB has to fight just to be a backup and see 5% of snaps.
We saw a few weeks ago when Manac transferred that not all players will hang around for his. But I personally believe that Kirby's approach is the right thing for these kids. It's the same culture you see in the NFL and so if they want to go pro, they need to get used to fighting for a job. Manac will end up starting somewhere else and he'll be a better player because he was challenged at UGA.
In other words, I don't think Schotty or Richt 'missed' on Fromm. I just think they wanted to support Eason more than they wanted to bring in another top QB. That makes for a good program that puts talent into the NFL and wins plenty of games. After 15 years however, we saw plenty of evidence that it doesn't lead to championships and I think it's pretty clear that UGA fans want those more than anything right now.
How do you misinterpret that question, and why even ask it in the first place if they weren't looking to offer? While we signed a lot of blue chip prospects during CMR's reign, I truly believe that we scouted very badly when it came to lower tiered prospects and weren't willing to adapt certain aspects to the prospect (Ramsey instead of Watson). That is were I think things are vastly different with CKS. I think we have much better evaluation of players now than then.
The Fromms' interpretation of the question was, if you've got other offers, we don't want to offer you because we think you'll say no and that will make us look bad.
My guess as for the interpretation is we don't have anything for you except to sit behind our prodigal son for 3 years. Do you have a better off than that? If so, we want you to take that and mot just commit to the Bulldogs because of an emotional attachment. Richt had a history of not stacking the depth chart. The problems with that approach were discussed in my last post.
I don't disagree with anything else you said. I have high hopes that Kirby will prove to be a better talent scout and player developer than Richt was.
And I am very excited what Richt can do down in Miami. They were like a 6-6 and 7-5 team. Maybe he couldn't get UGA to the national championship, but he did improve the standards for UGA football. And I bet he can certainly improve dramatically what's going on down in Miami. Already in his first year, he improved the team's record by one win over the previous year.
You may be right about the way they interpreted the question. I chalk it up to shottenhiemer being a terrible recruiter. Our recruiting didn't really start improving until Pruitt got there.
I just wonder how many other recruits we lost during the CMR era that we could have landed with a tougher recruiting stance.
@BamaDawg The Fromms' interpretation, "we won't offer if we're afraid of being told no to", just doesn't only make Schottenheimer (and Richt) not aggressive enough, it makes them look completely incompetent. I just have trouble believing they were THAT bad of recruiters. I imagine the Fromms were just frustrated because here's Jake, a borderline 5* recruit, and he can't get an offer from the school he really wants to go to, that I think his Mom and Dad went to as athletes (or something like that)...
I'm not trying to say Richt has the right approach to recruiting. I just can't imagine he's as terrible as he seemed to the Fromms. I just think the Fromms were frustrated with him. And so there interpretation of him...
What would be **** interesting is to ask Richt directly! Where's BA? We need a post-season interview with Richt! Oh wait, BA talks trash about Richt. Where's Seth?
@levander ... I don't think CMR was a bad recruiter, I just don't think he was a great one. As for schottenhiemer, lets not forget that he came from the pros (Rams I think). It had been a while since he had to recruit anyone.
We all know that impressions are everything in recruiting. I dont know what the Fromm's impression was, but asking that question seems to make it look like they either didnt want to offer or were actually afraid he would say no. It's easier to say "well we never really offered him", than it is to get turned down. It like not asking the cheerleader to the prom for fear of rejection. Let's also not forget that reports were out there that Pruitt and Schottenhiemer didn't get along. I wonder if recruiting methods was one if the reasons.