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Comments
"I think that statement above helps explain why we are being called the biggest 'underachievers'. Neither one of those teams has been able to recruit Top 4 classes year-after-year. They haven't even come close."
I don't mean to be unduly confrontational here (I did read your whole post), but frankly I will never understand the thinking that goes into this confoundingly common argument. Recruiting is at least half the job, and yet people talk about Georgia's talent level as though it's just been handed down from on high. It's like criticizing a quarterback by saying, "Sure, he's good. But where would he be if he hadn't spent all that time in the film room?"
The end results are what matter, which is why it's ridiculous to say Georgia is underachieving more egregiously than other programs, like Texas and Michigan, that are getting worse results from a similar position in the landscape of the sport.
As you say, results do matter. We're not producing the kind of results that we SHOULD be producing considering the level of coaching, recruiting, and money being spent at Georgia on the football program. Are we falling short worse than other programs? Yes and no.
We wouldn't be having this conversation if for the last 5 years Kirby hadn't been bringing in (2) #1 recruiting classes and the rest in the Top 4. If Georgia fell outside the recruiting Top 10 or Top 15 then we wouldn't be having this conversation - just like Michigan and Texas whose fans are disgusted and being laughed at and teased, but who don't have anything to point to other than average recruiting classes and average coaches (even Harbaugh ain't near as good as Saban, Dabo, or Kirby Smart) in their rollercoaster decade ride of mediocrity. You reap what you sow. I mean does anyone seriously think Texas or Michigan can compete at the elite level with their current level of recruiting AND coaching? Heck NO. No way. It's a pipe dream for (2) programs that USED to dominate.
Again, we've raised the bar for the Georgia program to almost the highest level, so we have to live up to what Kirby has created, right? Of course we do. We've got a target on our backs. Close enough is only good in horseshoes and hand grenades. We're close, but we aren't there yet.
But again, I don't think we deserve the harsh assessment and don't agree with it at this point.
@E_Roc recruiting is probably one fourth of what makes a HC elite, great, or good. The first is evaluation. The second is recruiting. The third is formulating game plans and with this developing your players to execute the plan. The final one is to make adjustments.
Kirby can recruit and we all I believe would agree on that. But this just one fourth of what it takes to win a national championship. A coach must be as good or better than his peers in all areas. So Kirby brings great talent to Athens, but the results are comparable to other programs with less talent. The natural reaction to this other than for Georgia fans is the team is under achieving.
For what it is worth, I think it is an existing culture problem. You have players talking about winning a national championship. I have not heard that from OSU, Clemson, OU or Bama players and each one of those teams surely could win a national championship this year just as easily as Georgia. I find that troubling.
Mostly Agree. Recruiting and coaching are only part of the winning equation. And I think many of us have questioned some of Kirby's in-game coaching and adjustments (or lack thereof). Still, Kirby is a great coach and recruiter and better than most. Hopefully, the right game plan and executing it to perfection is the final piece we are lacking.
And your statement is so true..." So Kirby brings great talent to Athens, but the results are comparable to other programs with less talent." Bingo.
I think you're splitting hairs. Talent evaluation is undeniably an aspect of recruiting. Making adjustments is part of game planning. If you're going to get granular with it, why stop at 4 things? That list could go on and on. The two basic elements to on-field production are acquiring talent and putting it to use. And there's a case to be made that to reach the pinnacle of sport, the most important thing - not the only thing, but most the important - is to have the necessary talent/depth.
In responding to my original point, you seemed to gloss right over it. Whether through mastery of Xs and Os, motivational tactics, simply bludgeoning one's opponents with superior talent, or some combination, the end result is what matters. Other than maybe Clemson (I'd have to check the past recruiting rankings to see if there's a significant difference), and maybe that one-off from LSU, I'm not sure which programs are achieving as much or more than Georgia these days with noticeably less talent. But however you want to slice it, even if talent alone is the single driving force behind Georgia's achievements, there aren't many programs out there that are consistently outperforming us. And one of them is led by the undisputed best to ever do it.
Lastly, what's wrong with talking about wanting to win a championship? Especially at a place like Georgia where, as reflected in these very comment sections, the topic is constantly being raised anyway? If the players didn't acknowledge it, I'm sure someone would take issue with that as well, saying these guys just don't seem to get how important it is.
See my response to stone below. And I'll just add one additional response here.
When you say, "I mean does anyone seriously think Texas or Michigan can compete at the elite level with their current level of recruiting AND coaching? Heck NO. No way. It's a pipe dream for (2) programs that USED to dominate." Isn't that just another way of saying they're drastically underachieving NOW? To reiterate a point I made yesterday(?), I'm not trying to let Georgia off the hook for its own failures. What sticks in my craw is this notion that we are to be set aside in a class all our own as underachievers, when there are multiple programs out there that COULD be elite with proper management but are doing worse than we are, and have been for some time.
Understand what you are getting at...I think.
Given their average recruiting and average coaching, both TX and Michigan are probably achieving about as good as they can do and one could also argue they are underachieving as well. However, the spotlight isn't on them. It's on us precisely because we have the best players and coaches in the game. We aren't achieving what we should be achieving - especially in the weak SEC East. TX and Michigan are average teams doing less than stellar things with what they've got. Until they ramp up their coaching, recruiting, execution, etc. not many people EXPECT them to do much more. However, they expect more from the Dawgs.
Devil's advocate - How can Ole Miss (2 times), Texas A&M, Auburn (3 times), and LSU ALL beat a Nick Saban Bama team yet the Dawgs have lost 3 times when in each of those games the mighty Georgia Bulldogs were leading at halftime???
How do you explain that without coming up with a major underachievement? Are we not in a 'league of our own' when it comes to underachieving? Sure, other teams have lost to Nick Saban but not as badly as we have when SO MUCH was on the line in every single one of those games.
You see what a disappointment the Dawgs are now to so many fans out there?
I've never disputed that the situation is disappointing. Of course it is. Again, it's the comparison to other programs that I would argue are at least in the same boat as us, if not worse, that I think is inaccurate and unfair. So, no. I don't think it's reasonable to place us in our own category as though we are doing soooo much worse than every other "blue blood" out there. Again, you pretty much gloss over those programs' shortcomings as though there's some rule disallowing them from doing better. Those failures that set the bar so low, at programs like those, ARE the underachievement.
And to answer your question about the results against Alabama, take the combined records of those other programs against Saban since he got there, and it's not exactly stellar. I mean, yeah, you play enough teams enough times and every now and then an upset will occur. As disappointing as the outcomes have been, I really don't see how you can argue that losing 3 closely contested games against the top program in the country can only be called a massive underachievement.
Well, I guess we can agree to disagree on a couple of things. Good discussion.
l will say this as my final words on this subject for now...with the talent and coaching we have this year, if the Dawgs don't make it to and also win the SEC Championship game (and subsequently make the playoffs) then I would call that a major underachievement for 2021. Hopefully, we'll be overachievers!
I said before and I'll keep saying it -- if we had simply won the NC game in 2018, a game that we had won until a bonehead mistake by supposedly seasoned defensive backs, NONE of this conversation would be taking place. That one game would have forever changed the trajectory of UGA football (for the better). We would be the new Alabama and Clemson and would habitually be ranked #1 or #2 (as they typically are) every year. 5-star recruits would basically recruit us. We wouldn't get them all, but we would get just about every one that we truly wanted. That one game was that important and I'll bet that after CKS retires and writes his book, he'll say just that. Go Dawgs!