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I'm sad to report a death...

WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 13,780 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
edited March 31 in Basketball

The Atlanta Hawks are brain dead.

They just beat The Bucks ( who had the good sense to rest Giannis. They won in T.O after calling a time out while down 1 pt with 1.1 seconds left. After Dallas loses to Oklahoma City later this afternoon we'll be down to a 1 game separation with The Mavs in the loss colume. It was 5 games just over a week ago. It seems inevitable they'll throw away a top 6 pick AND lower their odds of moving up with their own pick.

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Comments

  • YaleDawgYaleDawg Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Front office needs to step in and make sure we lose the rest of our games. This is getting ridiculous.

  • PTDawgPTDawg Posts: 986 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited March 31

    Was thinking along similar lines watching the ending. I'm fine with being competitive and trying to win. That has to be balanced with a long-term view, particularly this late in the season. You're eliminated from playoff contention. I get playing for pride but you can't tell me that two months from now when the Hawks are sitting with the #6 or #7 pick ONLY instead of say the #4 AND #6 picks that anyone is going to look at this game or 2-3 other close wins lately and say "Boy, that sure was worth the extra 2 wins."

  • BiffLowmanBiffLowman Posts: 373 ✭✭✭✭ Senior

    We cant even lose right.

  • BiffLowmanBiffLowman Posts: 373 ✭✭✭✭ Senior


  • GeorgiaGirlGeorgiaGirl Posts: 403 ✭✭✭✭ Senior

    I think the front office has already stepped in. Taurean posted a vague message on social media that suggested that he's not actually hurt recently and the way Dedmon has looked recently suggests he could be okay with playing it out, yet he just got shut down. Plus the Bazemore minutes with him being t.errible today, things that I suggested as manipulation. And yet it all doesn't matter with some of the young players being gritty however, because Bembry brought back a game that was gone early. Young would strongly prefer to play it out instead of "shutting down", seeing playing 82 games as an accomplishment. The front office is pretty stuck here, if you view him as a stud, you'd prefer to keep a good relationship with him and sitting him entirely against his will, no matter if it's good for the draft would likely hurt your relationship with him. So their only choice is manipulation, not shutdowns and it's obvious they're starting to try if you can view it in more than the casual way.

    As context, I saw someone on reddit that was at the Portland game say that Trae and Collins were very upset when they were pulled in the 4th before it turned back into a blowout. Collins spiked his towel and Trae smacked his leg so hard that you could hear it. Does that sound like players that you sit? Especially a guy that months ago questioned the team for losing in Collins, saying that it's not good for the team?

    Also for context, Taurean's vague message:

    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bvko9Lol7Eu/

  • judasdurantjudasdurant Posts: 997 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    If you look at the percentages, it’s like a 6% higher chance at keeping the mavs pick if they go below us. Just enjoy the wins and stop being a pessimist. Maybe if the hawks pass them people will give Trae young more serious ROTY consideration.

  • judasdurantjudasdurant Posts: 997 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    And Kristaps may not even be back next year, when the hawks get their pick no matter what.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 13,780 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    PTDawg, well put. NOBODY will give a dang who won or lost these meaningless games other than to be reminded how insanely stooped it was to play both Collins and Young as if the world depended on it.

    Either Coach Pierce or somebody higher up has lost their freaking mind. I know for sure Mark Cuban gets it, he got fined for admitting it in the past.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 13,780 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    GeorgiaGirl. I've read that Dedman is trade bait. That might explain why he isn't being used. The same thing happened leading up to the mid-season trade deadline. The key is resting Young and Collins. They played around 75 minutes between them today, that is incomprehensibly numb skulled. Heck just risking injury to their 20 and 21 year old bodies is a legitimate reason to sit them in these otherwise meaningless games.

  • GeorgiaGirlGeorgiaGirl Posts: 403 ✭✭✭✭ Senior

    He can't be trade bait when this is the last year of his contract. Him getting shut down to me is manipulation shenanigans to try to tank. So you can't say the FO is sitting on their hands. It's subtle but there like I said in the first post. Sitting Taurean when he likely is fine (otherwise that vague social media post would've likely not been posted). Shutting down Dedmon for the last few games with an injury it seems like he could play through and he's a better player than Len even if Len has his good games here and there. Letting Bazemore play a ton of minutes while being bad (anybody that thinks he's good in here is kidding themselves).

    And like I also said, Young DOES NOT WANT TO SIT and Collins called out the team for losses and looking awful and non-competitive in his second game back (can't find the quote straight up because that forum is dead). The FO is handcuffed here. They think they are future stars, right? They can't sit them if they want to keep good will with them. Sitting them out entirely would likely tick them off.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 13,780 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited March 31

    GeorgiaGirl. Why would you sit a player who at most has minor importance and play the 2 critical players even more than usual ? If that is the purpose of limiting Dedman Coach Pierce must truly be a drooling veggie.

    When you think about the fact Pierce calls himself a defensive minded coach and The Hawks are giving up more PPG than any NBA team in over 20 years, we shouldn't be too surprised I suppose.

  • GeorgiaGirlGeorgiaGirl Posts: 403 ✭✭✭✭ Senior
    edited March 31

    Did you forget how the team looked with Len starting earlier? Dedmon absolutely is notably better than Len to where it's worth a comment. Len has his random 20+ point games (and today happened to be one) but he's not better than Dedmon and there's a gap imo.

    Really, if you can't tell that the manipulation hasn't begun to soft tank, you're wearing a blindfold. It's mainly in minutes but it's 100% there. They tried so hard to throw the 4th quarter with a G leaguer playing most of the minutes at center even (Len was on the bench most of the quarter) and still failed.

    It doesn't even matter for this go around as Trey Burke Bobby Sura'd the Mavs today.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 13,780 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited March 31

    GG. I'm sorry but you don't throw games by sitting your 4th or 5th best player when you have a more legitimate reason to sit your 2 best players. Both Collins and Young are too valuable and are too young to play so many needless minutes late in a season.

    Pierce might be pretending to ease up for upper management's sake, but he clearly is going all out to win. He seems more concerned with himself than the future of the team.

    ''soft tank'' dang, they've won 4 out of 5, 3 of them against top teams. If this is tanking....

  • GeorgiaGirlGeorgiaGirl Posts: 403 ✭✭✭✭ Senior
    edited March 31

    You see, I don't think Pierce is for it at all (and I know Carter isn't because he's said tanking is BS multiple times), I think shutting down Dedmon and randomly sitting Prince is coming from above him. But I also think "above him" doesn't view Prince as a part of their future, and doesn't want to tick off the kids, because Collins was already very mad at the team losing when he came back, and Trae does not want to sit and sees playing 82 games as very valuable. There's good reason to keep good will with them, as sitting them may make you lose your leverage with them. They see continuing to play hard and the right way as the better thing to do.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 13,780 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    If The Hawks are tanking they are the worst at it in human history. If Pierce is sabotaging upper management his arse should be out the door the day the team plays it's final season game.

    You can not tank without your HC being on board.

    The Hawks have beaten 3 high level playoff teams in a bit over a week.

  • GeorgiaGirlGeorgiaGirl Posts: 403 ✭✭✭✭ Senior

    You see, the deal here is I'm pretty sure upper management has 0 interest in ticking off guys they think can be stars, and Collins already called out losing earlier and Young has made his interests clear in playing things out. Sit them down, you tick them off, and lose your leverage with them. That's the game you're playing here, as management you also have to make sure to stay on good terms with them.

    So you have not much you can do outside of play them but limit their minutes, which I think happened vs Portland (and came with them being TICKED to the point where it was visible to people attending), and is possible in the future, and pull shenanigans with other players to try to tank.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 13,780 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    GG. I think if upper management isn't proactive in this they have no business in this business.

    If Pierce isn't in, and upper management is hands off, who do you think is involved in this ''soft tanking'' that isn't working AT ALL ?

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 13,780 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Oh. The word I was looking for is incompetent, very, very INCOMPETENT.

  • AnotherDawgAnotherDawg Posts: 1,699 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Just for the record WC, a person cannot be VERY incompetent. He is either competent or incompetent. Degrees don't enter into it.

  • GeorgiaGirlGeorgiaGirl Posts: 403 ✭✭✭✭ Senior

    I think upper management is soft tanking and is in the business of good business of trying to not tick off guys that they think will be stars that already have cases in which if you sit them out period unless it's a legit injury, it'll make them mad. Like I've said in this thread, Collins already called out losing as bad and how it'll develop a losing culture earlier and Trae wants to play 82 games. They likely don't think an extra loss or two for ping pong balls will mean diddly compared to continuing to try play hard and learn.

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