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I think he was kidding?
Just from a scientific point of view (and to back up a previous point).
Both a small irregularity and a blatant example involving thousands of people would both be enough to make any numbers unscientific and worthy of being thrown out.
A.K.A. nothing to trust...
How so.......if hospitals are paid per covid case.....I don't get your deflating argument
I should have been more specific. Not that many had SARS-COV-1. It produces some pretty intense symptoms, so it's easy to isolate people and stop the spread.
They'd make more money if the country wasn't dealing with a pandemic. You'd want people to think it was over.
If 1 case is mislabeled then all are wrong?
SARS-COV-1 was not near as highly contagious as Covid-19, experts were saying 10 times as contiguous, some first line saying more than 10 times
So.....hospital administration......knowing they have ''x" amount of dollars for covid cases......aren't fudging a little to get paid?
OK......sorry for all the Covid deaths. . But certainly glad to know that hospital administration isn't being dishonest.....
Yale......that may be a little nieve.....but I do not want to ruin your night by arguing.
Hospitals get 20% more for a covid case than a regular upper respiratory infection. For each covid hospitalization that means an extra $2,500 roughly. Hospitals were losing collectively about $50 billion a month because of covid. To recoup that loss hospitals would need to claim a little over 19.2 million covid hospitalizations every month. There are about 6000 hospitals in the US which would mean an average of 3000 covid hospitalizations each month per hospital. Obviously this isn't happening because those numbers are ridiculous.
Let's say they just fudge it a bit so it's not as noticeable. At that point it becomes pointless to even try because the extra hospitalizations don't even come close to covering your losses. You also risk going to jail and getting kicked out of the medicare program which hurts revenue even more.
It just doesn't make sense to misreport the numbers.
Not really what I was going for. Wasn't really referring to one anecdotal event.
But you did shine a light on one of the problems with our discussions. Ambiguity is another sum-b#&@ when making a point here!
My true point - which I think you understand - is that the SIZE of the deception doesn't necessarily speak to the severity of the deception. It all makes the data crap.
I mean I think it makes it better since it was addressed and corrected. Shows a healthy system of accountability and that you can't get away with fudging the numbers.
If you are suggesting that you may be incorrect in your assumption you are. The total under on negatives seem somewhere between 0 and 50k since March 1. Even if %0k the cumulative positive rate would be 10.7% versus 10.9%. My concern is that with inadequate testing and results running 7-10 days there are probably 100k+ positives missing. The labs mentioned are the minnows while LabCorp and Quest plus the other 2 medium size companies are doing 80-90% of the reporting and there is no suggestion whatsoever that they are missing data other than overwhelmed.
Deaths are a different matter. I think they were vastly under-reported early on and are also running way behind now. I also don't understand why people in Federal and State prisons are not counted (even though they count as cases) nor are immigrant community deaths counted (again in Cases). This means that 105 deaths will never be counted. Today for instance the Deaths were 112 of which only 7 related to yesterday with the other 105 being part of the catch up (some likely were June deaths based on past performance).
There is exponential growth in Florida. In S FL the positive rate is 30% which is hard to get. Not to mention that if infections miraculously stopped today that rate would likely continue for 3 weeks just to cover those infected and waiting for a test as well as those who have been tested but results have not yet been reported. BTW that could easily be 200k cases.
@texdawg - See reply to @Bum
The same applies to Arizona, Texas and California (not as far behind in testing). 10-14 days behind equates to around 250-350 cases being under-reported without California so could be as high as 500k cases if you include Georgia also where even the Mayor took 8 days to get her families results which were out of date when received.
A family friend was scheduled for a test, went and stood in line, and they ran out of tests before the individual could be tested. Got a call a few days later that they had tested positive.
Anecdotal "evidence" of inaccurate numbers, and one occurrence in and of itself is certainly not enough of a reason to distrust numbers; it just seems that I keep hearing and reading more and more one-off stories of innacurrately reported numbers, and it really does make it harder and harder to really trust the numbers being reported.
Are these stories of innacurate reporting due to ulterior motives by those responsible for the numbers? Due to innocent mistakes? Incompetent people handling the numbers? Maybe the stories being posted are lies? Probably a mixture of all of the above...just makes is hard to know what to believe.
P.s. I appreciate @YaleDawg @Denmen185 and others respectfully participating in this conversation as the minority voice (at least the minority voice of this board) and preventing this from becoming an echo chamber.
Financial collapse only comes by keep throwing money at band aids instead of spending money on fixing the problem. Many said "We're not Italy". Italy. which is 3x the population of Florida, is averaging 200 cases per day. I wish we were Italy right now where Florida had 70 cases per day instead of 11k+ (7 Day ave).
@YaleDawg Please confirm that the strowk post was /s
Yes. Let's lie about these 2 patients @$2,500 each then the Governor will stop elective surgeries which are worth $100,000 a piece.
I'm fine.
Brilliant
Chance there has been "reporting" issues with cases? 98%...
Chance there is a mass conspiracy causing massive data miscalculations that are effecting policy? 4.3%
Chance that some of the anecdotal stories on here are not necessarily representative of the bigger picture in some places? 90%
Chance that some of the posts in reaction to these stories have been pretty condescending towards others who even suggest an issue with this whole process? 100%
Fact - there's a lot of slimy, underhanded stuff going on all over the place. I would believe just about anything could happen right now.
Opinion - I don't think it is as widespread as some folks do.
Fact - as I just heard from a close relative who is a hospital administrator in a tough spot in SC: if it doesn't turn soon there, it will get messy.