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- Please no inappropriate usernames (remember that there may be youngsters in the room)
- Personal attacks on other community members are unacceptable, practice the good manners your mama taught you when engaging with fellow Dawg fans
- Use common sense and respect personal differences in the community: sexual and other inappropriate language or imagery, political rants and belittling the opinions of others will get your posts deleted and result in warnings and/ or banning from the forum
- 3/17/19 UPDATE -- We've updated the permissions for our "Football" and "Commit to the G" recruiting message boards. We aim to be the best free board out there and that has not changed. We do now ask that all of you good people register as a member of our forum in order to see the sugar that is falling from our skies, so to speak.
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Wow, the POS addition to this discussion - although sarcastic - takes this discussion to a classless level. It is a below-board addition to your opinion that keeps progress from being made, and just serves to bring emotion and irrational thought and comments into a good, mature discussion.
The comments being made by several who may disagree with you somewhat were attributed to a hypothetical question of mid-season quitting vs. out-of-season transfers.
They were not directed at an individual.
Most (including my own) included provisions for individual situations that make the decision more understandable, more reasonable.
Sometimes you have to quit your job to take care of family. Sometimes you have to quit your job to move due to unforeseen circumstances. That is the world we live in, and in some cases that decision IS putting others above yourself.
SOME of these kids - and what seems a higher and higher percentage - quit because they don't want to fight through an adverse situation. And it is just this fight, this struggle, that could make them better men later in life. That is not my opinion - I have seen such struggle turn spoiled, immature boys into men.
And there is usually fewer life-altering consequences if this lesson is learned in the arena of sports and not the arena of the "real world!!!!"
That is why sports are awesome...
You can say all that and call my obviously sarcastic comment classless, but we both know that many of your and there’s previous posts on this thread were at least somewhat directed at Hill. You and others can say they weren’t, but they were.
You’re using the word “hypothetical” to protect yourself. Which player has opted out midseason without significant reason? You’re engaged in this conversation because of Hill and everything you’ve said has been at least somewhat directed at Hill.
I completely agree with what you said about going through adverse situations can make you a better person.
My personal opinion in general when a player feels that he can gain nothing more from the university and can only really hurt himself by playing more... remove yourself from the team. It sounds cold but if I have a chance to drastically improve me and my families financial situation I'm going to do everything I can to protect it. My brothers on the team are not going to pay for my sons/daughters braces, I have to do that. It doesn't mean that I don't care about them or the team. I would be protecting my future for myself and my family and I don't see one selfish thing about that.
It your poll is clearly biased. What if the player loses family to COVID? What if number of players/programs affected by the virus, with dire projections of a huge increase as weather cools, gives him grave (morbid pun intended) health concerns?
Some players might quit under those circumstances, even those with no real chance of “getting theirs.”
As far as what's "right for football" that's all a matter of opinion. And you wanting a player to not opt out for the sake of football, isn't that you being selfish? Looking out for football and what you expect a player's attitude to be, rather than supporting what the player thinks is best for his future. Are you putting this player's future before your own ideas of how football should be? Remember, you're supposed to put others before you.
Luke Ford is clearly a quitter....
Dang...mic drop. Outstanding perspective.
Great points, guys!
@Teddy - I did not mean to imply "what is right for football." I was implying doing "what is right for those you are responsible for/loyal to/have committed something to/given your word to."
I want the player not to opt out:
#1 so they can grow through the "football related" adversity they face (the exceptions, which, again, I have referred to are not football related)\
#2 so they can complete any obligation to which they have agreed to teammates, coaches, schools., and will therefore be MORE LIKELY to complete obligations/commitments in the future.
It is that simple. General life stuff. My point of view on commitment. Not really a "sake of football" conversation, man. Not sure where you are going with that, turning that around. When "life stuff" is considered - the type of man these guys will become years later, I could care less about a football game.
@ftn49 agree with your post. Like I have said. sometimes the least selfish thing you can do is walk away. That is not a football decision. My discussions have been about the ramifications of quitting and walking out on commitment without the "life baggage" everyone brings up.
@mantis_toboggan69 that's what hypothetical means. It's purpose is to intentionally remove this individual's situation from the discussion. And none of my (or most other's) posts ever referred to this one instance, this one guy's situation. Basically, the only guy who did was the OP.
And what would I be protecting myself from? I am always pretty open and honest in these discussions. I like to consider both sides and promote adult conversation about these deep issues. Again, you are the one who made it emotional with your sarcastic remark about this kid's tough situation, assuming I guess that anyone who would dare post against your opinion was obviously terribly flawed.
I work with kids all the time from all walks of life. I am in touch with most of these issues on a daily basis, so it's not going to overwhelm me if you disagree. Happens daily to my face. I enjoy the exchange, and have 2.5 decades of experience on my side. And that 24 years tells me I am wrong a lot, so I like to hear from everyone on topics I enjoy.
Is this not referring to Hill?
What I meant is you are using this “hypothetical” talk, but we all know you and others are at least somewhat referring to Hill.
Or, you were at least referring to him before I shared his tweet explaining his situation.
Let me pose this question, can you provide any example of a student-athlete opting out mid-season with no legitimate reason(s)? Furthermore, can you provide any hypothetical where a student-athlete would midseason for no legitimate reason?
Not at all judging. As stated I don’t know his heart. This situation as described in the OP is representative of a wider societal problem. As I stated.
If he is opting out just to be with family, that is a different story. What was posed here was he opted out to get ready for the NFL. One scenario was for others. The other situation ignored the needs of others. Two different things.
For all the fathers and mothers on the board, would you value your son’s “brothers” on his pee wee football team over his education, his mental health, his physical health, the health of his other loved ones, his genera happiness, etc.?
It’s the same thing for these student athletes but they have a hell of a lot more stress and responsibility to deal with. They are not paid. This is not their job. You would put certain things ahead of your own children’s hobbies.
Edit: And if you heard other parent making these “hypotheticals” and gross generalizations, I promise you it would piss you off.
okay, so the scenario where he opts out for the NFL is is selfish in your eyes. Is that correct?
The NFL money isn’t just going to change his life. It’s going to change that of everyone around him that he loves. You could frame it, “by continuing to play unpaid, Hill is putting the quality of life at risk for so many loved ones at risk”. That, to me, still isn’t selfish, but I think the argument would be stronger than the other way around.
I think some of you are missing the point that these kids playing college football are under tremendous pressure constantly. Middle aged men religiously follow their Instagram accounts and start internet rumors questioning their character every time they post something, trying to balance an hectic football schedule and course loads, distractions from fans, groupies, and **** boosters/agents, dealing with injuries, pain and fatigue...and these are mostly teenagers. If you play college football, it is your life...especially in the SEC. The amount of commitment to the sport these guys have already displayed is tremendous.
They absolutely do relate. It is the character of decisions that matter. So you would argue that it is ok to lie even if it hurts your neighbor if you have other good qualities? All it takes for a society to break down is for every individual to make the occasional exception in moral values. I do it today, you do it tomorrow, your kid does it next week. With time people learn it is accepted behavior.
If one says the bond in a community, a family, or a team , is a moral value, as I do) you don’t violate that bond for selfish reasons. There are instances when there is conflict between community and family needs. That is a different scenario and a tough choice but not necessarily a totally selfish one.
Every individual does make the occasional exception in moral values though, no?
WTH are you talking about? I didn’t call any kid a quitter. Just trying to start something??
No, that comment wasn't directed at you, I was sarcastically pointing out that leaving a team is not always being a quitter. Luke had very good reasons. Some here lump everyone together. I guess Daniels is a quitter also by some people's definition.
Cool. I support kids leaving whenever necessary.
Yes, people can make mistakes. The difference is when it is a mistake, it is condemned. My point was that a specific immoral behavior can become widely practiced and then accepted until that value is lost. Other people do it too, so, it is ok for me to do. Kids opting out mid season is endemic of a sickness in our culture.
Getting into the specific morality of individual choices is too much in the weeds for a forum. It would be nice to sit in a cafe to discuss these issues over a cup of coffee.
Thanks again for the give and take.
Again, I had never even heard of Hill, and got involved in this thread on the basis of general belief (I had actually posted on another thread that I thought a mid-season transfer portal entry was crap and it should wait till season end). So, this is was not about Hill, man. Like I said. In several posts. Not about Hill. Not sure who the "we" is that "all know" what I was posting about. That's ignorantly presumptive.
Not sure why you want to insist that I secretly have it out for Hill. Never even heard of the kid. But if you want me to comment on Hill, just to make it about him for a minute, then I can. Sounds like he had justifiable, selfless, non-football reasons to quit and walk away.
I am sure I can find actual examples of kids this year (has to be 2020 to use the term "opt out," otherwise I am not sure if that term has been used before) who have opted out for several reasons that are football-team-depth chart issues or "coach and I don't get along" issues, or "maybe it serves me better to train for the draft" issues or "I didn't get my grades right so I am going to be ineligible" issues. Those would be some of the hypothetical issues that I am sure simple research could find. And those are some of the reasons that caused me to vote the way I did on the poll.
Now, I would love to hear from you about the elephant in the room in this last post you made. What do you consider legitimate reasons? I bet we could really bring up stuff to differ on there!