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Nick Saban praises Jermaine Burton, Georgia fans should understand why



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    UGADad20UGADad20 Posts: 1,777 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited April 2022

    The playing field is leveling because there is just more players and talent being developed at the HS level. AL out-recruiting everybody for 10 years explains their dynasty. Do you think AL with the #1 class in '20 (record setting), #1 class in '21 (yes when you add Burton, Ricks and Gibbs) , Heisman QB, Defensive POY etc etc is going to be as "bad" as last year (SEC champs) and go away? As down as AL was last year if UGA doesn't replace Ericson at RG w/Salyer at halftime they probably lose to a down AL team missing many key pieces. Even with a generational D they eek out a win vs down AL. That was how this debate started. Improved offense needed to sustain championship level success. That improved offense must start with a QB that can do more than SBIV. As long as Saban is at AL recruiting #1 classes the smart money is taking AL vs the field. You can run from it, deny it but it is a fact. Even LSU's team of the millennium only beat AL because they had the ball last. Could've very easily been 4 championships in a row. But right AL is done. I think some people just like to argue no matter how wrong they are. You HOPE AL is done. I HOPE Saban retires SOON. I see Saban guaranteeing Manning 4 more years if he signs w/AL. When the polls came out last year AL was preseason #1. They got to the CFBCG and barely fell short. The preseason polls are out this year and guess what? Yup AL is preseason #1. It is obvious to anyone who is objective. But thank you for making my point. AL D "was so ineffective, fans were calling for Pete Golden's head". Yet there they were what 12-1 with a win over the #1 team and in the CFBCG again.

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    BigDawg61BigDawg61 Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate


    LOL...Yeah, I remembered it was Mathis after I hit the COMMENT button, but, I figured you'd get it.

    I don't remember Burton being sick before the game, but I do remember a lot of opt-outs and injuries effecting the o-line and defense. The Dawgs definitely weren't hitting on all cylinders and were lucky to win. If not for Daniels-Pickens, they probably would have lost that game.

    I remember those comments and I thought then, that he intended to use the QB's strategically...depending on need. That never came to pass, if it had, you would have seen Daniels play in the 2021 SECC game. Maybe he was just parroting thoughts that were expressed in staff meetings with Monkin. I believe we know, now, what Monkin's intentions are for the offense. Smart might be the Captain of the ship, but, when it comes to offense, Monkin is the Navigator.

    IMO, Gunner Stockton is going to be "the guy" after this year...unless they sign Manning. That'll make things interesting. LOL

    Similar to the Cincinnatti game...the Dawgs were dealing with a Flu outbreak at the end of the 2021 season, that I believe effected their stamina against BAMA in the SECC Game. You are closer to the program and probably know a little something about that. Nobody came out...and outright said it, but, I think we can both agree that was not the UGA team that took the field in the other 14 games they played. I believe it was Smith that said, "We tried some things we hadn't done all year". I'm wondering if Smart knew they weren't physically ready for the game and reverted to defending on the backend to protect a front 7 weakened by illness.

    Interestingly enough, with all that UGA lost on defense in 2020 and considering their showing in that Bowl game...the defense Smart, Lanning, Muschamp, Cochran and Schumann put together in 2021 is nothing short of amazing. Nobody saw that level of dominance coming.

    I actually expect their defense to perform at similar levels in 2022. Maybe not as dominant on the front 7 (individually), but, a much improved defensive backfield will allow for an inexperienced, but very talented front 7 core to meld. I look for Dumas-Johnson, Marshall, Sherman, Davis, Sorey, Beal and Smith to be their core group, with Carter, Logue, Stackhouse and possibly 1 or 2 of the freshman stepping up on the line. The Dawgs have all of the ingredients (minus Davis) and the chefs to make another masterpiece. LOL

    Sorry about the length of this post, but, I enjoy discussing football with somebody that knows the game.

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    BigDawg61BigDawg61 Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    LOL...I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. In UGA's case, you need a QB that can create plays with his legs, deliver the ball accurately and basically, DO NO HARM.

    You won't get that with a rookie QB. At least, not for the first half of the season. Whichever QB is the man of your choice, Vandergriff, Stockton, Beck...they WILL go through growing pains and make "boneheaded plays". It's inevitable.

    Smart does not have to do it like Saban or any other HC. I like what he's got going on right now.

    And, as far as Saban recruiting...those days are dwindling. Saban is closer to retirement and future players aren't looking to go to what WAS...Saban and Sweeney, but, what WILL BE. That's Fisher and Smart.

    Consider this, BAMA's best receiver last year, wasn't recruited out of High School. They signed off the transfer wire. Same with Burton. Smart and Monkin will get the players they want to run THEIR OFFENSE, not BAMA's. Look at the TE group they've put together since Monkin got there. It's the best I've ever seen on one team. That's UGA's direction...like it or not.

    UGA crushed Alabama in the 4th qtr.. That's where Championship games are won. Porshe, Solid Defense and 4th qtr. stamina.....there is no substitute. A great defense will stop a great offense 70% of the time.

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    UGADad20UGADad20 Posts: 1,777 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Yes I guess we will. In a season that is not expected to be an SEC winning season (SEC E yes, SEC no) do you ride a QB with a low ceiling (and a guy called out for more "boneheaded" plays than expected of a player with his experience) in his last year or try to develop one of the more talented QB's for the expected run next year? Saban recruiting prowess "dwindling" is not supported by recent facts. He is a young 70 (as far as we know) and could easily coach 5 more years. Recruiting is not just about HS anymore with the TP. The fact that Saban uses the TP better than anyone else just reinforces my point that if you are doing the same thing you've always done you are falling further behind Saban. The UGA TE room? 1st, DWashington has been a good player held back by injuries. Nothing more. If you predicted BBowers to have the season he had in a UGA offense notorious for under utilizing the TE position then you are wasting your time here. You should be at the casinos in Vegas. Bowers was not even a top 100 recruit (Rivals). NO ONE saw that coming. I think Bowers is great and I thought he would do well early based on the film I saw on him. During his phenomenal season he was not even nominated for the Mackey Award. "UGA crushed AL in the 4th Q". UGA was behind for 3 Q's. AL was down 1 score with 1 min left in the game when Ringo got the pick6. Had the AL freshman DB's and WR's (filling in for 4 injured starters) been able to make a play, AL wins vs the QB manager and generational D. Great D does not stop great O 70% of the time. MAYBE 30% of the time (See SECCG). The rules are slanted to favor passing O (no more bump and run, no contact w/WR after 5 yards, OL allowed to use their hands (hold)). Offense is encouraged by the rules.

    CKS has done a great job. Phenomenal. He has taken what was a good program and brought it into the conversation for the 2nd best program in the country. Now if you think that is the ceiling for the UGA program and you are happy with that then by all means continue down the same path with the status quo . I don't believe CKS is satisfied to just be in the conversation for the 2nd best program in the country.

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    Ddavis0777Ddavis0777 Posts: 409 ✭✭✭✭ Senior
    edited April 2022

    My mistake on confusing Miss St, but I still maintain my position that to label that a “break out” game is a bit of a stretch. I’d argue the fact that he had only 10 catches the first 6 games and that he never had a remotely similar production after support the fact that the Miss St performance was more an anomaly than the norm.

    I’ve always found Burton to be more in the Riley Ridley/Terry Godwin mold and that attempts to portray him as anything close to a George Pickens, Terrence Edwards, or AJ Green talent (which is how I view Bama’s 1, and 2 WR’s) is off base. This said, I still believed in his potential to contribute with us. I hope his durability doesn’t hold him back at Bama - because if he’s WR-2 he’s gonna get more reps than UGA put on him, and take tons of hits.

    That aside, your consistent and veiled rehashing of the offensive philosophy of Kirby is growing exhausting. Please don’t take my feedback personally… you do write some content I find genuinely intriguing; and I have defended you when others come at you unfairly. Also, I look forward to your appearances on the Finebaum show. But I just think enough is enough on topics like JT Daniels vs Stetson Bennett, how the ball IS distributed vs how SOME may LIKE it to be distributed, and what coulda, shoulda, woulda been etc .

    Last years hay is in the barn, so more focus around NEXT YEARS squads potential would be welcomed. Understanding Kirby is stingy with media viewing periods during the Spring I’m hoping we’ll see more focus on the 2022 squad come summer/fall.

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    BigDawg61BigDawg61 Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    LOL...Man, where do you come up with this stuff. Nobody said Bennett had "more boneheaded plays than expected". He had a few boneheaded plays and they want to eliminate those...naturally. every QB and Coach wants to eliminate those. Rephrasing what someone said or creating facts from conjecture to support your opinion, is disingenuous. If what you believe can be supported with actual quotes or facts, I'll be glad to listen and consider.

    And Saban hasn't used TP "better than anybody else". There you go again...LOL. Lane Kiffin signed more players out of the portal than anybody. Lincoln Riley signed a 5 star QB. Everybody's using the portal to address team needs, including Smart with the defensive backfield last year. This year's portal hasn't really heated up yet. I realize you're probably a BAMA/Saban fan, but the portal's only been around for a few years and NIL is brand new. The jury's still out on who is going to be King, if anybody. Right now, I'd say the trophy goes to Lane Kiffin.

    As far as UGA's CFP chances, nobody has ruled them out of winning the SEC or going to the CFP. LOL. Don't know where you got that one from. Some think the road won't be as easy and I agree with that, due to a much improved SEC East and Oregon standing in the way. But, UGAs offense will also be improved and their defense will play like a Smart/Muschamp defense.

    As has been the case since Smart's second year, UGA will compete for an SECC and CFP birth. They will be just as positioned to do it this year as last year. They didn't lose much off an offense that averaged 39 points per game. Their O-Line is expected to be better this year than last year and they have the best group of TE's in college football with an experienced backfield, WR group and QB. Add in the fact, it's Monkin's 3rd year with these players...well, I believe they'll be unstoppable. So, I don't know what you're looking at, but, you might want to reevaluate. Just sayin'.

    BTW, UGA is now the best program in the Country. Either Texas A&M or Alabama, OSU or Michigan are 2nd best. That's what a Championship means. LOL. UGA's now on top.

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    BigDawg61BigDawg61 Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    BTW, regarding TE's...in the Jan Bowl game vs Cincinnati, Daniels completed 7 passes for 87 yds to D. Washington and J. Fitzpatrick..

    This year they have Washington, Bowers, Gilbert, Seithert and Delp. An unbelievable wealth of talent at one position. Look for a lot of 2 TE sets and TE's lining up as a slot receiver. Gilbert, Bowers and possibly Delp could play wide.

    They USED to under use their TE's before Monkin installed his offense. That's their bread and butter going forward. And, fans might not have been aware of Bowers' potential, but, guarantee you the coaches and players knew. They expressed it throughout the offseason in interviews.

    Yeah, I pulled the 70% thing out of my butt. However, that's been my experience and if you didn't notice...officials let the DB's have their way in the CFP. Pressure on a QB that's not very mobile, is the best defense against a downhill passing game. UGA used every position on the field to apply pressure to Young in the CFPC. That was the difference between the SECC and the CFP. I believe that some of UGA's players were still recovering from the FLU in December. That's why the front 7 looked so fatigued and Smart/Lanning "tried some things they hadn't tried all year"...defending on the backend instead of attacking.

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    UGADad20UGADad20 Posts: 1,777 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited April 2022

    There you go again being disingenuous. I deal in facts son. Maybe it is just against AL that SBIV makes more "boneheaded" plays, than expected of a player with his level of experience, that I am focusing on. The other games don't matter as UGA has the talent edge in most games now. CKS has coined the term "boneheaded" plays. Just quoting him. He needs "to cut down on". That means too many. More than wanted or expected. Is English not your first language? Those are some of the games that have kept UGA from being the #1 CFB program in the country. In SBIV's 2 loses to AL he has 5 INT's (includ a Pick6) and 1 fumble.and completed little more than 50% of his passes. In the win SBIV game managed he had 3 fumbles (2 he miraculously recovered) and multiple passes he put up for grabs. Connor Riley said it in on Dawgnation Daily today. SBIV puts the ball up recklessly. Not my words. Just another fact recognized by people who watch the game objectively.

    Yes they were able to win this year. And I am very happy they did. But the consensus opinion of professional analysts and writers is that AL is the #1 CFB program. It is pretty dumb to try and argue that. Has UGA closed the gap? Absolutely. Have they surpassed AL? We shall see. But the consensus is that UGA hasn't yet or UGA would be the preseason #1 not AL.

    What would you call Saban adding 2 starters to his #1 rated team last year? One a 1000 yard WR (of which UGA has has 1 in its history). This off season he has added 3 starters to, yup you guessed it, his #1 preseason rated team. Quality and quantity are not equal. Calling Kiffin better than Saban at anything is laughable. No one has used the TP as masterfully as Saban. Plugging and playing talent. Had Saban not already had a better QB than CWilliams he probably would have brought him in too. Except 1) AL didn't need him and 2) CWilliam's father is on record barring his son from playing at AL. It was all over the news while he was in the TP. Creating facts from conjecture to support your opinion.

    You cannot rule anything out this time of year but, realistically on paper, UGA does not bring enough back to beat AL. Hence the #1 (AL) rankings. Again, I deal in objectivity. Which I am learning is not apparently part of your vocabulary. Being the best team in any given year and the best program (year in and year out) are not the same thing. FACT: AL has been recognized as the best program for quite a while. Not by me. By EVERYBODY. They bring an awful lot back as well plus the last 2 #1 classes. Whether UGA has finally climbed the mountain and taken the mantle we will see. Again, the consensus prediction of the prognosticators and the Vegas odds (not mine) say it is not likely. But I am sure you'll find a way to argue that too.

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    BigDawg61BigDawg61 Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate


    I guess you can't help yourself. "Saban added 3 starters to a #1 team". Okay, the season hasn't even started yet...how do you know they're going to be starters? What happened to the kids he recruited 1, 2, 3 years ago? Are they being stepped over these alleged starters he just brought in...are they not good enough to take their place in the line-up?

    AND, Smart also picked up 2 "starters" off the wire last year to address his DB deficiencies...one from Clemson and one from West Va..

    As far as "experts" go...I'm just as capable of evaluating what I see on the field as anybody. I've played and watched the game for 55 years. And, all experts don't agree. .if they did, they'd be out of a job. LOL

    If you've never heard a coach talk about boneheaded mistakes...from pretty much every position on the field, I gotta ask, have you ever played? It's not a knock against you if you haven't. I'm just asking, because it's a fairly common term and I sense you are reading too much into it. In fact, I believe Smart used that term in talking about Fromm from time-to-time.

    Putting a ball up in a position to allow your player to make a play, isn't "throwing it up for grabs". It's a calculated throw that gives your guy an advantage in either receiving the ball or drawing an interference. For the most part that was Bennett's only option as the WR's weren't getting much separation. It was either that, run or eat the ball...which equals losing. Bennett made one of the best throws I've ever seen over the middle to Bowers in the CFPC...just over the head and out of reach of the BAMA defender. IF you watch the game again, even Herbstreit raved about it. He's a former QB whose opinion I respect. Calls it like he sees it.. He was right about that pass and he was right about an earlier ill-advised pass (bonehead throw). Like I've said before...there isn't a QB to ever play the game, that didn't make a boneheaded play here and there. Some you know about, some you don't.

    As for Bennett's vast experience...let's examine that. He may have been playing college football for 5 years, but he's been a starter for 1.5 seasons. That's relatively inexperienced. I expect him to be vastly improved next year. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

    According to your valued experts, there were a couple on The Finebaum Show recently that flat out stated...UGA, TEX A&M and BAMA signed 11 of the top 14 defensive linemen this year. "To compete for Championships, you have to be stout on the line. Those 3 teams will be competing for Championships for the next 3-4 years, based on their recruiting."

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    CandlerParkCandlerPark Posts: 695 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @UGADad20 I agree that -- to compete season after season against the likes of 'Bama -- the offense needs to step it up a notch. It sure doesn't seem that Saban's letting up. With his returning players this year plus stellar transfers, it's no wonder the Tide is favored to regain the championship.

    But I also don't think Georgia has its reputation for toned down offenses is because Smart or Monken have shied away from opening things up - other than maybe not giving understudy QBs a chance to shine in blowouts. It seems to me that their vision has been ambitious, while their decisions have been very logical based on the circumstances.

    It's really just plain luck, for example, that Fromm and Bennett have been the main QBs during the Smart era instead higher rated QBs with bigger rifles (Eason and Daniels getting injured; Fromm knowing the system so much better than Fields; etc.). As a result, not surprisingly, it's been hard to attract/hold onto A-list receivers (something that may improve with the Coach McClendon).

    But I'm also pretty optimistic. It's entirely possible that this year's offense will be among highest scoring Power 5 offenses in the country -- not because of our good talent at WR, RB and, yes, QB, but because a superb OL will allow the skill players to exceed expectations. Plus, of course, there's that ridiculous TE talent.

    It's also possible that the ball bounces in the other direction for a change. Maybe, the blue chip gets an opportunity, and suddenly we've a got a QB who's looking like Trevor Lawrence in his freshman season (if so, my money's on Vandagriff). I don't say this to cast shade on SBIV, who's consistently underrated; but he hasn't shown himself to be the guy who can open things up consistently in the way, say, Stroud or Young can).

    Then there's the following possibility: Georgia's offense looks very good this year with Bennett as quarterback ... which ends up setting the table for Arch Manning. Not planning on that ... just saying that with the coaches we have, the reputation and the recruiting prowess, we're really just a bounce or two of the ball away from building the kind of offenses year-in-year-out that you're talking about. And with our consistent recruitment and development on the other side of the ball ... whewww! Well ... I don't want to get ahead of myself ...

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    BigDawg61BigDawg61 Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    All true...very good assessment. However, I believe BAMA's on the down ****, while UGA and A&M are on the upstroke. Now, BAMA is always gonna be BAMA, with or without Saban. UGA's just a couple of plays or a few seconds here or there over the last 21 years, from 2 or 3 more Championships than they have.

    With Smart at the helm...UGA's gonna be UGA. Dynamic defense with a solid offense. Not a bad formula. It works at all levels of football competition. Defenses have caught up to these high flying offenses. You attack the QB...the only player on the field that can make the offense go. Stop him...stop them!

    One of the most frustrating non-Championship years was in 2007, when LSU jumped over UGA in the polls, because "they didn't even win their division in the SEC", according to the so-called "experts". LOL They tied with FLA in the division. Okay...that's the standard right...even though everybody thought UGA had the best team in the Country at the time? Not so fast. BAMA was pushed into the BCS Title game in 2011 against LSU, even though LSU beat them in the 3rd from last game of the regular season and they didn't win their division. The standard went out the door when it came to BAMA. Luck and Politics.

    That's why we have a CFP today

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