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Want some Crean stats to get pumped up about ?...looky here...

WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
edited March 2018 in General

This season our offense is 278th in scoring at 68.1 ppg. Last year was worse with just 63 PPG.
I dismissed Crean's first 3 seasons in Bloomington because the previous coach left the program on probation.
After that counting from most recent..

2016/17 season - 34th. 79.8 ppg
2015/16 season - 10th. 82.6 ppg
2014/13 season - 14th. 77.4 ppg
2013/14 season - 108th. 72.2 ppg
2012/13 season - 4th. 78.6 ppg
2011/12 season - 13th. 13th. 77.6 ppg

Here is some anecdotal evidence that suggest Crean was the prime reason, this year without Crean The Hoosers have dropped to 208th in scoring with 71.9 ppg.
His offenses play loose and bold, we haven't seen that around here of late.

Comments

  • donmdonm Posts: 10,241 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @WCDawg said:
    This season our offense is 278th in scoring at 68.1 ppg. Last year was worse with just 63 PPG.
    I dismissed Crean's first 3 seasons in Bloomington because the previous coach left the program on probation.
    After that counting from most recent..

    2016/17 season - 34th. 79.8 ppg
    2015/16 season - 10th. 82.6 ppg
    2014/13 season - 14th. 77.4 ppg
    2013/14 season - 108th. 72.2 ppg
    2012/13 season - 4th. 78.6 ppg
    2011/12 season - 13th. 13th. 77.6 ppg

    Here is some anecdotal evidence that suggest Crean was the prime reason, this year without Crean The Hoosers have dropped to 208th in scoring with 71.9 ppg.
    His offenses play loose and bold, we haven't seen that around here of late.

    I’ll get pumped up if we win a lot of games. Not into stats so much.

  • donmdonm Posts: 10,241 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @WCDawg said:

    @donm said:

    @WCDawg said:
    This season our offense is 278th in scoring at 68.1 ppg. Last year was worse with just 63 PPG.
    I dismissed Crean's first 3 seasons in Bloomington because the previous coach left the program on probation.
    After that counting from most recent..

    2016/17 season - 34th. 79.8 ppg
    2015/16 season - 10th. 82.6 ppg
    2014/13 season - 14th. 77.4 ppg
    2013/14 season - 108th. 72.2 ppg
    2012/13 season - 4th. 78.6 ppg
    2011/12 season - 13th. 13th. 77.6 ppg

    Here is some anecdotal evidence that suggest Crean was the prime reason, this year without Crean The Hoosers have dropped to 208th in scoring with 71.9 ppg.
    His offenses play loose and bold, we haven't seen that around here of late.

    I’ll get pumped up if we win a lot of games. Not into stats so much.

    Have you actually watched our offense ?
    Entertainment does matter.
    Crean runs the same weak set motion offense as Golden State, it's not JUST entertainment though, we shouldn't have 10 minute periods where we can't score a basket like we did so often with Fox's too static iso plays.
    Say goodbye to 3 players standing around while 1 player tries to force the ball into another player with the entire opposing defense keying on them.
    I think we have passers and shooters waiting to be developed.

    I get your point but I'd rather be 20-10 with a "dull" offense than 15-15 scoring 80 a game and still losing. It's about W's for me. I do, of course, think it's lots more fun to watch points being put on the board, but if we want that we can go to the Westhead-Loyola Marymount approach. I do think Crean can win enough to get us into the tourney.

  • RangelineFanRangelineFan Posts: 2 ✭ Freshman

    I hate to tell you this, but if you value result, you're getting the second coming of Mark Richt.

    Crean alienated all of the high school and AAU coaches in his own State. You're excited about offense? Great...his defense sucks. Get used to seeing a player with a hot hand being pulled out of the game for no apparent reason.

    If you dont believe IU fans, ask Marquette fans. Dude is all style and no substance.

    Thanks for hiring him though. Now we don't have to watch or hear him on tv...and the over valued contract means that we had to pay less than 1 mil to buy him out.

  • TeddyTeddy Posts: 6,154 mod

    @RangelineFan said:
    I hate to tell you this, but if you value result, you're getting the second coming of Mark Richt.

    Crean alienated all of the high school and AAU coaches in his own State. You're excited about offense? Great...his defense sucks. Get used to seeing a player with a hot hand being pulled out of the game for no apparent reason.

    If you dont believe IU fans, ask Marquette fans. Dude is all style and no substance.

    Thanks for hiring him though. Now we don't have to watch or hear him on tv...and the over valued contract means that we had to pay less than 1 mil to buy him out.

    Crean over those 6 seasons mentioned above gave up 68.5 pts/game. Fox the last three years gave up 68.9 pts/game. So, if he improves the offense and keeps our defense relatively the same, I'll take it. We know he's not at a Coach K level, nor did we expect anything like that until we have some sustained success. We're kinda like IU football but with our basketball team, although not nearly as bad as IU football. But just using that as a reference point in the fact would you expect IU football to hire someone of Saban/Meyer level, or probably get someone in the middle tier?

  • RangelineFanRangelineFan Posts: 2 ✭ Freshman

    @Teddy said:

    @RangelineFan said:
    I hate to tell you this, but if you value result, you're getting the second coming of Mark Richt.

    Crean alienated all of the high school and AAU coaches in his own State. You're excited about offense? Great...his defense sucks. Get used to seeing a player with a hot hand being pulled out of the game for no apparent reason.

    If you dont believe IU fans, ask Marquette fans. Dude is all style and no substance.

    Thanks for hiring him though. Now we don't have to watch or hear him on tv...and the over valued contract means that we had to pay less than 1 mil to buy him out.

    Crean over those 6 seasons mentioned above gave up 68.5 pts/game. Fox the last three years gave up 68.9 pts/game. So, if he improves the offense and keeps our defense relatively the same, I'll take it. We know he's not at a Coach K level, nor did we expect anything like that until we have some sustained success. We're kinda like IU football but with our basketball team, although not nearly as bad as IU football. But just using that as a reference point in the fact would you expect IU football to hire someone of Saban/Meyer level, or probably get someone in the middle tier?

    Those numbers are exaggerated by the weak pre conference schedules. You'll find out soon enough.

    I get the IU football reference...and as a long time season ticket holder, trust me, I have an extremely realistic position on where IU football is in the hierarchy of expectations. I'm happy if this team goes 6-6 with a bowl appearance.

    Just trying to warn you not to get your hopes up. Crean is all talk...he relies mostly on talent...and then he underwhelmed with that talent.

    We tried warning UAB fans about Mike Davis...

    Marquette fans tried warning us...

    If I can find the article that a Marquette writer put out after Crean left, I'll post it...it spells out to a T what you can expect.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @donm said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @donm said:

    @WCDawg said:
    This season our offense is 278th in scoring at 68.1 ppg. Last year was worse with just 63 PPG.
    I dismissed Crean's first 3 seasons in Bloomington because the previous coach left the program on probation.
    After that counting from most recent..

    2016/17 season - 34th. 79.8 ppg
    2015/16 season - 10th. 82.6 ppg
    2014/13 season - 14th. 77.4 ppg
    2013/14 season - 108th. 72.2 ppg
    2012/13 season - 4th. 78.6 ppg
    2011/12 season - 13th. 13th. 77.6 ppg

    Here is some anecdotal evidence that suggest Crean was the prime reason, this year without Crean The Hoosers have dropped to 208th in scoring with 71.9 ppg.
    His offenses play loose and bold, we haven't seen that around here of late.

    I’ll get pumped up if we win a lot of games. Not into stats so much.

    Have you actually watched our offense ?
    Entertainment does matter.
    Crean runs the same weak set motion offense as Golden State, it's not JUST entertainment though, we shouldn't have 10 minute periods where we can't score a basket like we did so often with Fox's too static iso plays.
    Say goodbye to 3 players standing around while 1 player tries to force the ball into another player with the entire opposing defense keying on them.
    I think we have passers and shooters waiting to be developed.

    I get your point but I'd rather be 20-10 with a "dull" offense than 15-15 scoring 80 a game and still losing. It's about W's for me. I do, of course, think it's lots more fun to watch points being put on the board, but if we want that we can go to the Westhead-Loyola Marymount approach. I do think Crean can win enough to get us into the tourney.

    I agree with the winning over style, but a lack of offense was Fox's biggest shortcoming, more so than recruiting.
    You need to score in today's game, a quick look at low scoring teams reveals a close correlation to being able to consistently put up 75-80 ppg and playing winning basketball.
    It's not like in the past when gimmicky offenses with zero defense polluted the stats.
    Besides, we also have Crean's record to go by.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @Teddy said:

    @RangelineFan said:
    I hate to tell you this, but if you value result, you're getting the second coming of Mark Richt.

    Crean alienated all of the high school and AAU coaches in his own State. You're excited about offense? Great...his defense sucks. Get used to seeing a player with a hot hand being pulled out of the game for no apparent reason.

    If you dont believe IU fans, ask Marquette fans. Dude is all style and no substance.

    Thanks for hiring him though. Now we don't have to watch or hear him on tv...and the over valued contract means that we had to pay less than 1 mil to buy him out.

    Crean over those 6 seasons mentioned above gave up 68.5 pts/game. Fox the last three years gave up 68.9 pts/game. So, if he improves the offense and keeps our defense relatively the same, I'll take it. We know he's not at a Coach K level, nor did we expect anything like that until we have some sustained success. We're kinda like IU football but with our basketball team, although not nearly as bad as IU football. But just using that as a reference point in the fact would you expect IU football to hire someone of Saban/Meyer level, or probably get someone in the middle tier?

    Exactly.
    It's not like we run a 1980s stall ball offense that skews both offensive and defensive stats.
    The rules and accompanying trends toward motion offenses gives us a more reliably indicative correlation between scoring offense and defense.

  • KyotoPhantasyKyotoPhantasy Posts: 67 ✭✭✭ Junior

    I'll take "all talk," if he "all talks" us to some sweet 16s and a final 4...which he has done.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @RangelineFan said:
    I hate to tell you this, but if you value result, you're getting the second coming of Mark Richt.

    Crean alienated all of the high school and AAU coaches in his own State. You're excited about offense? Great...his defense sucks. Get used to seeing a player with a hot hand being pulled out of the game for no apparent reason.

    If you dont believe IU fans, ask Marquette fans. Dude is all style and no substance.

    Thanks for hiring him though. Now we don't have to watch or hear him on tv...and the over valued contract means that we had to pay less than 1 mil to buy him out.

    If you want to ignore results and the fact Marquette fans wanted him to stay when he left for Indiana have at it.
    As far as alienating AAU power brokers, good, it's timely that The AAU bag men are being stripped of their power as I type.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    I took a quick look at Crean's last good season at Indiana and here is what their offense and defense did in wins against high level teams.
    Against Wisky, OSU, Iowa, Purdue, Maryland and Kentucky the average score was 80-68, right at their overall season averages.
    The only real breakdowns on defense came in losses to Duke and UNC where they gave up 94 and 101 pts respectively.

  • BankwalkerBankwalker Posts: 5,197 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    An Indiana fan trying to lecture a Georgia basketball fans about expectations makes me think of those old Grey Poupon commercials where the guy in the old Rolls Royce is asking a commoner if they have any handy. We've been eating our hotdogs without any mustard at all for so long that we'll be ecstatic when we can afford to get some regular Golden's. Expectation levels are not in the same stratosphere.

  • TeddyTeddy Posts: 6,154 mod

    @RangelineFan said:

    @Teddy said:

    @RangelineFan said:
    I hate to tell you this, but if you value result, you're getting the second coming of Mark Richt.

    Crean alienated all of the high school and AAU coaches in his own State. You're excited about offense? Great...his defense sucks. Get used to seeing a player with a hot hand being pulled out of the game for no apparent reason.

    If you dont believe IU fans, ask Marquette fans. Dude is all style and no substance.

    Thanks for hiring him though. Now we don't have to watch or hear him on tv...and the over valued contract means that we had to pay less than 1 mil to buy him out.

    Crean over those 6 seasons mentioned above gave up 68.5 pts/game. Fox the last three years gave up 68.9 pts/game. So, if he improves the offense and keeps our defense relatively the same, I'll take it. We know he's not at a Coach K level, nor did we expect anything like that until we have some sustained success. We're kinda like IU football but with our basketball team, although not nearly as bad as IU football. But just using that as a reference point in the fact would you expect IU football to hire someone of Saban/Meyer level, or probably get someone in the middle tier?

    Those numbers are exaggerated by the weak pre conference schedules. You'll find out soon enough.

    I get the IU football reference...and as a long time season ticket holder, trust me, I have an extremely realistic position on where IU football is in the hierarchy of expectations. I'm happy if this team goes 6-6 with a bowl appearance.

    Just trying to warn you not to get your hopes up. Crean is all talk...he relies mostly on talent...and then he underwhelmed with that talent.

    We tried warning UAB fans about Mike Davis...

    Marquette fans tried warning us...

    If I can find the article that a Marquette writer put out after Crean left, I'll post it...it spells out to a T what you can expect.

    You don’t think UGA has a weak pre-conference schedule too? Feel free to look at UGA’s this year for example.

  • leroy300hleroy300h Posts: 7 ✭ Freshman

    Virginia has a boring offense. They win. That's all that matters. I don't care whether we score 90 or 50...just win!

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited March 2018

    @leroy300h said:
    Virginia has a boring offense. They win. That's all that matters. I don't care whether we score 90 or 50...just win!

    Another miss the point reaction.
    We had a huge problem on offense, now we won't have that problem..the end.
    What Virginia is doing is very remarkable, but no other elite team is coming close to duplicating their methods.
    Holding opponents to 53 ppg in The ACC or SEC is simply not a workable plan.
    All champions in today's game have been able to score the ball.

  • donmdonm Posts: 10,241 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @WCDawg said:

    @leroy300h said:
    Virginia has a boring offense. They win. That's all that matters. I don't care whether we score 90 or 50...just win!

    Another miss the point reaction.
    We had a huge problem on offense, now we won't have that problem..the end.
    What Virginia is doing is very remarkable, but no other elite team is coming close to duplicating their methods.
    Holding opponents to 53 ppg in The ACC or SEC is simply not a workable plan.
    All champions in today's game have been able to score the ball.

    They need to be able to score precisely one more point than their opponent. Easier to do that when you can play good defense.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @donm said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @leroy300h said:
    Virginia has a boring offense. They win. That's all that matters. I don't care whether we score 90 or 50...just win!

    Another miss the point reaction.
    We had a huge problem on offense, now we won't have that problem..the end.
    What Virginia is doing is very remarkable, but no other elite team is coming close to duplicating their methods.
    Holding opponents to 53 ppg in The ACC or SEC is simply not a workable plan.
    All champions in today's game have been able to score the ball.

    They need to be able to score precisely one more point than their opponent. Easier to do that when you can play good defense.

    Crean is almost exactly equal to Fox in defensive ppg and 12 better in offensive ppg, that is a large net gain.
    Nobody else is winning with Virginia's formula of allowing 53 ppg, of course if we had found a HC with that ability we would have signed him.

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