Hey folks - as a member of the DawgNation community, please remember to abide by simple rules of civil engagement with other members:
- Please no inappropriate usernames (remember that there may be youngsters in the room)
- Personal attacks on other community members are unacceptable, practice the good manners your mama taught you when engaging with fellow Dawg fans
- Use common sense and respect personal differences in the community: sexual and other inappropriate language or imagery, political rants and belittling the opinions of others will get your posts deleted and result in warnings and/ or banning from the forum
- 3/17/19 UPDATE -- We've updated the permissions for our "Football" and "Commit to the G" recruiting message boards. We aim to be the best free board out there and that has not changed. We do now ask that all of you good people register as a member of our forum in order to see the sugar that is falling from our skies, so to speak.
- Please no inappropriate usernames (remember that there may be youngsters in the room)
- Personal attacks on other community members are unacceptable, practice the good manners your mama taught you when engaging with fellow Dawg fans
- Use common sense and respect personal differences in the community: sexual and other inappropriate language or imagery, political rants and belittling the opinions of others will get your posts deleted and result in warnings and/ or banning from the forum
- 3/17/19 UPDATE -- We've updated the permissions for our "Football" and "Commit to the G" recruiting message boards. We aim to be the best free board out there and that has not changed. We do now ask that all of you good people register as a member of our forum in order to see the sugar that is falling from our skies, so to speak.
Options
Comments
For the sake of argument, is Lou Holtz a "coaching legend"? He had good years, yes, but I think an argument can be made that he isn't a legend. He had a 249-132-7, .651 Win%, but he also had 8 losing seasons...with one of them being 0-11.
Thoughts?
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/coaches/lou-holtz-1.html
Only coach to take 6 programs to a bowl (and before there were a zillion bowls), and to have 4 different programs finish in the Top 20 (they didnt always rank the Top 25 - something that was probably done as a participation trophy for millenials).
This wont be popular...from an Xs and Os standpoint a person could make a strong argument that Will Muschamp is a superior DC to CKS. I’d take Kirby over him as HC all day everyday. He’s certainly done it at more programs and has fielded Top 10 defenses nearly every year he has been a coach, including 11 of 13 years as either a DC or HC in the SEC prior to taking over SC. Won a NC at LSU and played for one at Texas. He has proven again and again that he doesnt need the best players at every position.
I agree the unknown is how good our O line is this year. They were still growing at the end of last year, and they were blocking, perhaps, the two best D lines in the country from the state next door for the last month or so. They could be scary good this year. That would make the D line a lot better, having to face the best every day in practice. We’ll find out how much they have improved in Columbia. Will will have the Gamecocks ready and WB will be loud and obnoxious. There is nothing like a great O line to tranquilize the opposing fan base, though.
He (Muschamp) may see this as more of a stepping stone job to audition for better job. And if he can win 9 games or more again this year he'll b well on his way to getting that opportunity. When LSU fires Orgeron either this year or next Muschamp will be on their short list. But I don't see him leaving SC for anything less than a blueblood program like LSU.
the AP has done top 25 since 1989
don't worry, the scary millennials won't get you on the internet. you are safe. especially when you can't spell millennial correctly
"While the AP Poll currently lists the Top 25 teams in the nation, from 1936 to 1961 the wire service only ranked 20 teams. From 1962 to 1967 only 10 teams were recognized. From 1968 to 1988, the AP again resumed its Top 20 before expanding to the current 25 teams in 1989."
Lou Holtz? I thought @pgjackson was talking about Sparky Woods.
IDK who we play, how many "stars" they have, how much "beef" is on the line...all I care about is a W at the end of the day...carry that to the locker room and you will have done your job as a team...GO DAWGS!!!
None of those articles mean SC, or any other team in the SECE, can't beat us with their 3 and 4 star guys. Put our talent at Vandy. Do you think they will suddenly become Alabama, or last year's Georgia, on the field? We can't prove it, but I guarantee you they would not. It takes more than pure talent to play for championships--including a little luck. What good are those stars then?
Let me add one more thing--without the coach, the facilities, the location--those elite players would not come to UGA, or Bama or OSU. The articles @PharmDawg2054 cite just report what happened for those schools who put everything together for a while.
I disagree. While some unheralded players are late bloomers, the fact is the higher the star rating the more often the player turns into something good. When you're loaded with higher star players, you hit more often.
Teams who don't land a ton of 5-star guys remember the 5-star busts. We all remember Marquise Elmore. But we forget we miss a lot more on 3-star guys.
The talent gap does matter. The fact it's widening between us and SC is a good sign that those games won't be as close as the Richt/Holtz and Richt/Spurrier years.
there are some who don't understand odds and percentages
they operate under a few misguided notions like if all 5*s aren't studs/if any are busts there you can't rely on rankings, or if any team with less recruiting talent beats a team with more then it proves star ratings don't matter, or "any given saturday", etc
it has to be all or none for some folks. they struggled with nuance, statistics, and common sense
Sorry, I was not suggesting that talent doesn't matter. The point you guys are missing is that if you put all that talent on a team like Vandy without the right coach and program, they will not win championships. Vandy could never recruit them in the first place because of other missing pieces that would make them successful. Do you dispute that? The percentages are not hard to understand. Counting the number of 5 stars on championship teams doesn't account for other variables that make THAT PARTICULAR TEAM successful. When a team has a lot of 5 stars, they got other things happening right as well. If star rating is ALL that matters--then Vandy would win those championships if we put our talent on their team.
The converse is also true: Bill Belachick can't coach Vandy to a championship because inevitably they will have to face a team of 240 lb guys that can run a 4.4 40... in Athens, GA.
It takes three things to have a great college football team: acquisition, development, and construction (play calling). They are listed in order of importance.
Honestly... even with their coaches Vandy would likely win the east if we traded talent.
Jimmies and Joes > X's and O's.
Sure these teams full of talent are capable of getting beat, especially by a rival school... it happens all the time
But what does not happen is winning a national title without those 4 and 5 star players
Which was my original point @PharmDawg2054
Spurrier got them to an SECCG and got them to their only 11-win seasons. He also beat UGA 3 times in a row for the first time ever. While not getting any hardware, he was still a big thorn in our collective sides, and did way better than Lou Holtz.
Exactly. 1 SECCG appearance. That's it. Three 11-win seasons is good, but still nothing to show for it. That was my point. They had two HCs with NC credentials and both failed to win anything significant. I'm not sure Muschamp is the guy. Heck, I'm not sure anyone is "the guy" at SC.
But for SCAR......That's over-achieving. You're correct about one thing, though....They've had some coaches come thru there that have done great at other schools and seen their careers die at SCAR. Paul Deitzel won a title at LSU....Didn't do jack there. Same with Holtz, and to a certain extent....same with Spurrier.