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Comments
I don’t want to start anything but why would anyone take an unproven vaccine that was rushed compared to other vaccines when you may still get the virus?
Especially when this thing has over a 99% chance of survival for everyone under 75?
Not a chance I am willing to take.
Just asking - and I hear your argument a lot, so I don’t think you are an outlier...
Are you good with the status quo? 2500 deaths a day for the next 3 years until we determine this vaccine is “safe?” With some “bad” days around 10-12k?
And if we return to pre-Covid living(big events,no social distancing, no masks), you could probably see 3-4 million die before it slows down.
You are right -99% will live. 3.5 million will die - that’s my quick math. And that goes up if too many get sick at once.
It becomes a social responsibility . If we let this hang around (and only 45-50% of us get shots) even 5% of the vaccinated people will get sick. If most of us get shots, this thing can become polio - a chapter in our grandkids history books.
I wanna go back to Sanford with 93k of y’all. Without a mask on. That doesn’t happen if too many decide not to get a shot. Most importantly, I am tired of hearing about people’s parents in ICU, and older people in my church dying.
Not a medical doctor, so would defer in part to the real doctors, but I am a political scientist, so I have an understanding of the regulatory process, in general, and in this instance. My understanding was that the speed was more a function of doing some of the procedures in parallel, as opposed to serially, which is normally the case. In addition, as others with medical expertise here and elsewhere have noted, the researchers where not starting from scratch. They had the generally framework in place having known about the coronavirus for more than a decade.
This vaccine has been in the works since SARS.. not “brand new”. It’s safe.
Very fair questions and sorry somebody DV'd your thoughts. I'll give you my thoughts. First, death isn't the only risk, but the vaccine appears to reduce the 1-2% mortality number to ~zero, so there is a lot of value imho. It also reduces the chances for an unfavorable outcome other than death. It is an individual decision, and I could see a healthy 25 Y/O passing on it.
I have a very simple way of viewing the mRNA approach here: the mRNA instructions, which are very perishable (notice how long they live at room temperature), have your cells make decoys for your immune system to shoot at--they look like a mallard, but they aren't mallards. Mallards aren't scary, so maybe think rattlesnakes instead. Once your immune system recognizes them as the enemy in a jab or two, you likely have few worries for Covid. I'll vote with my feet, and I'm getting it as soon as it's offered!
So, my answer to why is the same as why get insurance. You have a very low risk of needing it, but it could be a lifesaver if you are in the unlucky lot that needs it.
so what else becomes a social responsibility to stop deaths? Many more than that die of all sorts of things. I have no problem with anyone taking this voluntarily. It just shouldn’t be mandatory
100% agree that no one should be forced to take it. I have a feeling that a lot of private employers will require it, as will some schools and colleges, etc, like other vaccinations.
As far as the “freedoms vs. responsibility “ argument and other social responsibilities - we have been determining what side of that line the law falls for decades in our country. This will be no different.
I won't debate Flat Earth or the moon landing, and I won't debate this with you, but you should understand there are 400k additional deaths in the US in 2020.
That is a 15% increase from 2019.
We avg around 2.7-2.8 million deaths per year over the last few yrs, and that's 3.2 million in 2020 with an increase of 400k/15% - The math works out to reduce avg US life expectancy by just under 3 yrs.
That is a staggering, outrageous and disturbing piece of data.
The suicides are up dramatically (many reasons for that - govt mismanagement being one of course), but the real meat of the increase is normal death (cardiac and cancer) and COVID-19.
Just yesterday AM I sat and spoke with a forensic pathologist who runs a lab in Atlanta. We discussed this in detail.
All deaths are up - People have been scared into avoiding the ER (don't go bc you'll get COVID-19) and their heart disease worsens and they **** or have a heart attack.
COVID-19 deaths are decreasing bc we can manage it better...
...make no mistake - The medical INDUSTRY supports aggressive measures to combat COVID-19, and that includes me (a moderate who despises Biden and Harris).
I understand your point and agree with some aspects of it, but healthy people who get COVID-19 pass it around all over the place, and yes it kills people it simply shouldn't kill.
When you're considering your behavior as it pertains to COVID-19, your behavior and...what's the word - Behavior and lifestyle should be with respect to our parents and the susceptible individuals in society.
That doesn't mean shut down America, but it does mean do your part to minimize the risk to your parents and neighbors bc I hope they deserve it.
I am 40, and one day I'll be 83...I hope you respect me enough to do the minimum for my sake.
Again...Doesn't mean go bankrupt or shut down your small business, but we're all riding the same boat dude...Keep each other dry FFS.
Edit - The mRNA platform and the schematics of the viral structure are not new...
Very persuasive knowledge that you share. Is the vaccine for the protection of the recipient or for other people that the recipient may come in contact with, or even both? Not trying to compare this to the seasonal flu, but several people do not take the flu shot (which you would know that better than most). Is it selfish to endanger other people when 'you' are trying to protect yourself from whatever 'you' may believe about these things?
Thanks for the information you shared.
A vaccine for a cold with a 99.6 survival rate. No thanks
If you think about it, if enough people get the vaccine then the infected numbers will dramatically be reduced. And that’ll make this virus more manageable.
Good Q - It is both.
Modern society no longer throws babies off the cliff for cleft lip; this is not Sparta. It is wholly immoral to neglect a percentage of the population bc they're less firm or simply older than you.
Many individuals in the young/healthy crowd feel justified by not changing their lifestyle bc there is a very low likelihood they get really sick with COVID-19.
I understand that, and I agree with that belief on a superficial level - It falls apart with second or third level scrutiny.
Why?
Outcomes are not binary.
It is not either recovery or death.
Rather, it is recovery, long term side effects (blood clots, organ damage, scarring in the lungs, oxygen requirements, exacerbation of other chronic illnesses such as diabetes) and then after another 50 other processes until you get to death.
So the Q is who I'm protecting by getting a vaccine Sunday?
Well, my patients for one, my family (parents and in-laws mostly), and any anonymous individual in the community for whom I may infect and potentially harm...Unintentionally and unknowingly.
Individuals who refuse vaccines are generally the same ones who refuse masks and all the other little things we're trying like social distancing that may or may not DO ANYTHING...They're more often than not right of the political center.
Those individuals are good people who love their country and will give you the shirt off their back without Q - Yet they won't buy into COVID-19.
Misinformation right now is at an all time high, seemingly on the level of Germany mid to late 30s...Not calling anyone a Nazi by the way. Not at all...
Mao level propaganda. Pol Pot. Castro.
I am not trying to convince anyone of doing anything.
...it's just that the MAJORITY of "facts" being disseminated right now are both incomplete and poorly-interpreted.
No one should have the right to tell you what to do to your body. That’s why this is all voluntary. Just like the people in our military. They are brave enough to do what others are to weak to do themselves. Protect the ones that can’t protect them selves. So you do what ever makes you feel comfortable.
@Polynikes Thanks for taking the time to answer.
So should we legalize drugs?