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University Presidents can fix this



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    JoeClarkJoeClark Posts: 433 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Agree with the foundation your opinion rests on but not so much the opinion itself.

    The reason we are here today is due to the NCAA's inability to accept change and change their operating model to regain a modicum of control. In doing so, they have given way too much power to outside actors, legally.

    Students weren't even allowed to have outside jobs. Many students at less lucrative institutions were going hungry and, at a few, homeless.

    This is even further compounded when many of these students are plucked from very very rough areas and their families barely keep the lights on. We've all seen more than our fair share of stories of "rags to riches".

    In the past, students were enticed to leave school, before getting a degree and with a horrible outlook in the NFL, for the change at a couple hundred thousand.

    Add in the facilities arms race and you have a recipe for this current state of affairs

    Now, maybe there is an end in sight... albeit with a lot more oversight than the NCAA is currently undertaking

    I think the NIL's should continue but it should be expected that there is a baseline stipend for everyone (maybe done by a team sponsorship), a small % of each deal should go to a transparent team fund to help out all athlete's who might need some money and such (because we all know D1 football funds all the athletics in the school) and a mandatory financial literacy class and what not.

    At the end of the day, student is a term used loosely due to the amount of time they put in.

    There's a reason many of the star athletes can't have harder majors because they don't have the time for classes or the workload. That's not a "student-first" program if you ask me

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    SWDawg68SWDawg68 Posts: 1,705 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    You listed 7 bullet points on your OP of what universities need to do. Universities are already doing these things. Just trying to understand your post since universities are already doing what you’re asking for.

    Well, No they are NOT doing theses things. It is all or nothing and dabbling in this is only a face value venture.

    @texdawg has it labeled correctly and they would be wise to do all of it.

    If the University Presidents don't do something and a tragic event (easy to figure out) occurs, then there will be Federal procedures enacted and Senate committees.

    I am not sure everyone fully understands what happens when you endow young student-athletes with an enormous amount of spending money - many of them think an "investment vehicle" is a Cadillac Escalade, not a buying an ownership stake in a business! These are huge NFL problems that surface with the rookies, they are 21-22 years old, not 17 freshly out of High School!

    Mind Boggling!

    To think this is an easy fix, is wrong and to think that the coaches don't want the best talent, no matter how much they cost, is also wrong. Who has the power and who has the ability to put the best team on campus, without too much of "IT" -- tough decision, but if they wait, it could ruin the game!

    It needs to be addressed now, before it is too late! @Bdw3184 understands it, you should read his "soap box" eulogy, I hope our President sees it!!

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    RxDawgRxDawg Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    I'm a little late to the party... but A-men Tex. I'm ready for some people to start growing a pair and tell these "player rights" grifters to get bent. I'm ready for a lot of "leaders" to start growing a pair in many facets of life.

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    texdawgtexdawg Posts: 11,581 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Great post. You bring up many good points. Which is why I said that part of the expectations on the universities is to make sure that any other needs are addressed.

    For the most part, many of the areas of concern you brought up have been addressed. Coaches are now limited on how much they can spend with players. There is more than enough time for studies. Not much time for anything else.

    Also, players financial needs, while at school, have been addressed for the most part. They do have more money available, even before NIL, and they have food cards that can be used on the weekends.

    The stories you share about poverty and homelessness with athletes, while on campus, is all valid, but most of that is in the past and has been addressed. At least it has for football and basketball players.

    The other athletes on campus are still struggling to a certain degree because of partial scholarships and far less financial support. Which is why I suggested, if college football and basketball is actually making as much money as many believe, then the excess could be used at increasing scholarship amounts for the other athletes on campus.

    I don’t pretend to have the answers, but nothing about this current model feels right.

    I won’t say names or schools but three years ago I helped one of our players receive a scholarship to an FBS school. He was recruited by a few schools, but when it was all said and done, only one FBS and one FCS had a commitable offer. He was at that school for 2 1/2 years playing sparingly. He has just entered the transfer portal and walked away from a scholarship and certain graduation. He didn’t ask my advice before entering the portal but now wants me to help him find a new school. It is very unlikely he’ll find one and his single mom will not be able to help him pay for college. He was 4 semesters from graduating from an outstanding academic school. And it’s unlikely he’ll graduate now. But we are trying.

    The system is broken. It is currently providing fewer scholarship opportunities than it did in the past and almost encouraging kids to walk away from opportunities they currently have.

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    texdawgtexdawg Posts: 11,581 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
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    SWDawg68SWDawg68 Posts: 1,705 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    This is only a recommendation and not my idea, but I like it nonetheless. I make a living in the financial sector and one of my colleagues, that work explicitly with high dollar "Contract enabled clients that work with Agents". He is worried and a little sickened by all of this AND it is his industry and to his advantage that this is occurring.

    He said "It is 2 words", 2 words that will fix the dump truck of money laid in their laps, TRUST FUNDS!

    Those who need available funds for whatever reason, petition the fund manager, those who leave it alone, Incredible advantages for all things in Life, for the rest of their lives!

    The motto goes.....You would rather live like a prince for all of your life, than a Live like a King, for a couple of years and end up broke!!

    This is not the total answer, but it is a way to manage the chaos that money brings to this issue.

    The 7 points enable ALL student athletes the opportunity to advance in their college careers and not create too much chaos!

    Great OP @texdawg , hopefully we meet some day, the shared values, thought processes and ideas are freighting similar!

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    texdawgtexdawg Posts: 11,581 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
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    Bdw3184Bdw3184 Posts: 12,740 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
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    TeddyTeddy Posts: 7,109 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    You didn't answer my question on how universities should make it more about education, thus the confusion. As you spent a lot of time talking about education, in which the 18,000 you are arguing for already get a great educational opportunity (better than a normal student gets). You and others have stated how valuable these scholarships are worth when we discuss players getting NIL in addition to scholarships, but you don't bring up how valuable scholarships are when talking about the 18k that won't be going pro. I think it's a pretty good deal for students-athletes that are playing sports that aren't making a lot of money or won't be going pro.

    You then stated 7 bullet points of what universities should do for student-athletes, which was a little confusing as well since universities are providing all 7 things you listed.

    So, it seems the main issue is transfer portal and NIL (boosters pooling). Transfer portal you didn't mention in your original post. I'm fine with the one time transfer, but open to hearing other solutions. Presidents can't do a whole lot with the supreme court ruling other than offer some rule changes/tweaks, and I'm open to that. Right now universities are adhering to their state laws regarding NIL, I think a federal law that has everyone playing under the same rules would be the next step. They can attempt to address the boosters pooling money in the federal law, but I imagine loopholes will be found.

    You stated the 270 scholarship players that are going pro are killing educational opportunities for others. Can you explain how this is happening? At best, we won't know this for a year or two. Below is how many athletes are on scholarship across all colleges. If we see this number shrinking we can then investigate to see if NIL is the root cause. Otherwise, I don't see how you can definitively say this.

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    TeddyTeddy Posts: 7,109 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Can you provide examples of universities that are not providing the 7 bullet points?

    Are you saying that since some student-athletes may waste their NIL money they shouldn't be able to earn it? And why does it matter what student-athletes spend their money on? I've stated on other threads I hope the first they do is hire a financial advisor and start investing in their future. But since it's not my money, I'm not going to tell them what to do with it. And what about others who will invest the money and be wise with it? Should they not be given a chance to earn because a few may waste their money?

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    dawgfromduluthdawgfromduluth Posts: 364 ✭✭✭ Junior

    College football is now semi-pro football.

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    texdawgtexdawg Posts: 11,581 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    I don’t know how to be more clear. Maybe I’m not smart enough.

    Let me try this.

    College Presidents let it be known what you provide…let it be known that college football is about education. College football is a privilege and not a right.

    But again, I don’t think my first post was confusing.

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    TeddyTeddy Posts: 7,109 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Nearly every time I see a school president talk about their school they talk about academics and the educational opportunity their school provides. Look up President Morehead's interactions with the public and you'll see he's constantly praising UGA's academics, most times about student-athletes, and the opportunity it provides. So, presidents are constantly touting and emphasizing education. Whether student-athletes take advantage of that is up to them.

    Recruits of all sports are pitched on all the educational benefits they'll receive at said university. Pretty sure it's known that universities are offering a great educational opportunity that's not offered to 99% of students. And contrary to popular belief, players do have rights. Football is a privilege and players still have rights.

    The best way to scare prospective student-athletes away, tell them football at your school is a privilege and you won't cater to their rights. There's a reason they aren't saying this, hardly any great players would go there and your program would then become a doormat. Doormat programs make a lot less revenue, a lot less revenue equals a lot less scholarships, amenities, and support for all other sports' student-athletes. So, this would in fact lessen the amount of available scholarships for student-athletes of all sports. Not very good tactics if you truly want to provide education for more people.

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    texdawgtexdawg Posts: 11,581 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    You are absolutely correct. Any school that says playing football is a privilege and not a right would be screwed. Absolutely no argument from me.

    And you are also correct that schools pitch academics. They actually pitch it more than most are aware of.

    I can’t say that I disagree with anything in your last post.

    But this last recruiting cycle was an absolute mess. Players deciding on certain schools based on money, not NIL money, booster money. Current players holding up certain commitments because they are demanding their share. Kids continually entering the Portal without having anywhere else to go…and hundreds of kids that would normally receive a scholarship being left out because of the portal.

    Its’s a complete cluster mess and their is no ruling body to protect kids from boosters, coaches or themselves.

    It’s OK that you don’t agree with my OP. But I’m extremely passionate about it because I see the harm all this crap is doing…because I’m involved with it everyday.

    Since there is currently no one in control, I still stand by my statement…College Presidents can fix all this 💩….and they should start by saying it’s about the education and this is what we are providing our student athletes…they can then choose to give power back to the NCAA or start another governing body. Whatever….but this current crap ain’t working. And has very little hope of succeeding.

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    SWDawg68SWDawg68 Posts: 1,705 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    6 - any other support needed to help athletes that are doing so much for the university - Here is the issue, where we are going to disagree and even split hairs. This is not documented, but it is an unbelievable amount of support that is provided, BUT not in the form of "Pay to Play" or "whoever pays most will get the player"

    7 - allow athletes to “earn” money with their NIL. Signing autographs, social media presence, doing commercials or whatever the athlete can generate because of the demand for their NIL. No safeguards, not monitored at the level anyone might believe. Can you tell me the difference between, doing a commercial or having your Image in magazine OR just receiving money because you were picked as one of the elite players on the team? You can't and it is happening and has happened and now that the regulations and rules have changed, there is a freedom in dispersal that is going unchecked. You have to see this for what it is and even though there are so many positives that come from it, there is too much room for manipulation. That should worry us all and that will change how a program handles their players.

    I want to believe that this is wonderful for all of the players and that this will provide them compensation with the education and recognition they already receive!

    So. some questions for you @Teddy If my concerns are an overreaction to what I have seen read and have been told, clarification would be welcomed!

    1. Who is managing all of this for the school, player or provider?
    2. Why are we in disagreement? Is it the prose it is written or do you believe this isn't an issue and/or is already been addressed?

    The NCAA is at fault for it going this way and their lack of attention and action created this mess. I am not sure what will happen, but I am sure that it will take just one headline about a kid being corrupted by this windfall of cash and the next thing you know there will be a committee to "Handle" the issues and by then it is too late.

    Have the Presidents or the Board handle it now, admit it was a knee jerk reaction or not, but the NCAA did it only by being forced and before they were mandated in other ways. Please don't believe they were trying to work through their plan, they were trying to figure out how to stay relevant and compensated!

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    Bdw3184Bdw3184 Posts: 12,740 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    "But this last recruiting cycle was an absolute mess. Players deciding on certain schools based on money, not NIL money, booster money. Current players holding up certain commitments because they are demanding their share. Kids continually entering the Portal without having anywhere else to go…and hundreds of kids that would normally receive a scholarship being left out because of the portal."

    Well-stated @texdawg ! This is the crux of the issue in my opinion. It is pay to play (booster pooling) that is swaying kids to sign, not NIL money where they are being compensated for the use of their NIL. Current players are threatening to go pro unless they get "second or third round" money. Where is that money coming from? Is it based on their NIL?

    And the portal is a whole 'nother issue! Decisions being made by players to transfer (because their is no penalty not to), losing out on the scholarship they had, for the hope/promise of "playing more" somewhere else to build their brand to get to the NFL and then being left in the lurch when they can't land anywhere else. Not to mention the last part of Tex' quote : Coaches aren't signing players from high school in hopes of filling their rosters with transfers. Does this balance out? not sure.

    All to get money, or the promise of money, now!

    People have stated that players have the right to NIL under the Supreme Court ruling and I agree. But the way it is being handled by the individual schools with the differing state laws is unbelievably bad!

    The system as it stands now needs to be fixed. Not sure how, but surely the powers that be can see that this process is not working as it was intended.

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    texdawgtexdawg Posts: 11,581 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
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    Bdw3184Bdw3184 Posts: 12,740 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited December 2021

    Not true at all, but thanks for the props!

    Speaking for myself, I am as afraid of where this whole NIL, pay to sign/play, transfer portal is headed as anybody. I see the destruction of the game of CFB as we know it, and I am not lovin it!

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    texdawgtexdawg Posts: 11,581 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Sometimes I feel Georgia fans can lose sight of significant issues going on in college football. It’s one of the top programs and is insulated in some ways to many of the current issues. At least for now.

    But it is changing fast and could/probably will effect the powerhouse programs soon.

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