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Comments
I appreciate your thoughtful comment, E_Roc.
To be clear, I wasn't at all faulting Kirby for returning to his alma mater. My point was that it's not fair anymore, in such circumstances, to accuse either players or coaches of "disloyalty."
You're drawing two lines that I wouldn't draw. The first is between unthreatening schools and bitter rivals. But where do you draw that line? Is it just Alabama? Or are players showing bad form if they go to our biggest Eastern rival (Tennessee )? What about South Carolina, which could be a rival in the future? Or Kentucky? Or Florida? Or, say, Ohio State?
The other line is between players and coaches. I'm not saying the situations are exactly the same. But, aside from Smart's UGA pedigree, most of what you write about Kirby could be said about Marshall: He gave UGA four years, working his ass off (in Trezmen's case, getting injured), until an opportunity came long to rise to better position at another school. Each man grew and learned during the years each spent at the school he transferred from.
You write that "there's a reason people generally don't fault a coach in that situation." I agree. But the main reason we do fault athletes is that we're not used to things being the way they are now. NIL and the TP have created a brave new world in college football -- one in which even the NCAA acknowledges players' rights to earn money and to choose where they labor. I don't think any of us really are comfortable with it, but it everyone's in the process of changing their assumptions.
Is it fair to expect a player who has a chance to start for Bama's storied program to go instead to, say, Baylor or Western Kentucky (neither of which is as close to his Georgia home) because it offends our sensibilities as fans? We don't take that attitude toward coaches. We don't take it toward pro athletes. Unfortunately, we're going to have to get used to not taking it toward college players.
Completely agree on the Marshall vs Burton comparison. While I don't like that Trezman chose Bama, I respect the way he's made his move in terms of his thanks to the school, the coaches, the fans, etc. Compare this to Jermaine's "I honestly forgot about that game" when given the opportunity to thank his previous school for the opportunity to win a National Championship and it's night-and-day...
Wish him well, but not a DGD. That title is only bestowed by the great, loyal, and legendary ones.
Interesting over on a BAMA fan youtube channel commenters are saying their LB room was already "loaded", and they didn't understand why they even needed him. Might stand to reason that he would get more playing time at UGA where coaches know him and he knows the system or at least at some other lessor school where the competition wouldn't be as intense. . Sort of wierd!
Almost like an over reaction move perhaps because of being disgruntled? Maybe he just thinks he's good enough to show up in a new system and impress and start. Just thinking out loud. Just wierd, unless Schu is going too and he knows coach Schu is familiar with him? Grasping at straws here.
@CandlerPark I love the way you think and write. It's a new day. The old standards of what's a rivalry and what's not, the standards of what is loyalty and what's not, it's all gone bye-bye. There was a day and time not too long ago, when Texas and Oklahoma NEVER would have been a part of the SEC. Things change and you're right, NIL and the open portal have permanently changed college football. If Marshall thinks the best opportunity FOR HIS FUTURE is at the University of Alabama, he's done no one wrong by transferring there. Same for Burton, though as you point out, his decision just wasn't a wise one. Marshall's may not be either. Time will tell. And let's face it, the DGD label is TOTALLY made up. It is not an official designation and anyone can give it or not give it based on their own perceptions.
I am, though, curious about Schuman's comments. And I do wonder if things are farther along with him and Alabama than perhaps we know at this point. I hope not. I don't think things will go as well next year if we lose BOTH him and Monken, and at this point, it seems we're destined to lose one or the other. With a new QB, I was hoping Monken would stay around to ease the transition, but if he truly wants to be back in the pros, well, not much we can do. On the other hand, some extra dollars probably would keep Schuman around for 2-3 more years, as it did Lanning when Texas came calling. Let's see what Kirby can pull from his bag of tricks. Go Dawgs!
I see your points. To an extent I think we may be looking at a fundamental disagreement, but will give it one more shot. There's a lot to cover, so sorry if I start rambling. I'll probably end up explaining a bunch of things that you already understand, but it's necessary to articulate my perspective.
I never thought you were faulting Smart. But you did use him as an example to make your point, so I was addressing it on that level. A proper equivalent would be if he quit Georgia to go coach, say, Florida (or more to the point, Bama). Obviously, from the Alabama perspective, his leaving to return to his alma mater was nothing close to that, which is why I thought it was a faulty example. Which brings me to the two drawn lines that you identified.
Why should it not matter where the transferring players go? I don't mean to be pedantic, but being a fan means actually caring about such things. I'm just speaking generally, not trying to get into a "real fan" debate. It hurts to watch a team that you dislike benefit (at least potentially) directly at your team's expense. But more than that, it's about wanting the players to care about your team, because you care. So when a player, who could go anywhere in the country and do just fine, specifically chooses an option like that, fair or not to that player, it feels like a slap in the face. It's very difficult for a fan to imagine ever going out of their way to quit on their team and align with a rival. So when a player does that, it's fair to wonder if they ever cared about being here in the first place. And that's a troubling thought. Yes, this is romanticizing it, but again, that's what being a fan is all about. That's the whole point! At least as I see it.
Now, as for the distinction between players and coaches, I think it has to do with expectations. And this was the point I briefly tried to make earlier. (I had a feeling you'd make the comparison between the effort that Smart and Marshall both gave their respective teams before leaving and figured I'd cross that bridge when we get to it.) With agents, contracts and all that, everyone understands from the outset that it's much more of a business-oriented process that dictates where coaches end up. (And the same goes for pro players.) Coaches, like Smart and even Richt, that actually elicit an emotional connection from their team's fans are relatively uncommon, at least compared to the extent that it happens with (college) players. Because with players, they chose to come to your team - again, it's the idea that they're here because they want to be. So when they leave, it feels a lot more personal to see them do it so flippantly as to go to a team that they know isn't liked where they came from (see above). So yeah, I do think there is a distinction to be made there. Now, that distinction is pretty much eroding by the day, as you and Dallas Dawg pointed out. But just because something is becoming normalized, that doesn't mean there's nothing wrong with it. Obviously, I say that as a fan. Sure, we'll get used to it eventually. But that doesn't mean that we haven't lost something in the process. There's that rambling I was worried about... I guess my point is that, yes, the players are all well within their rights to go wherever they want. But we as fans also have every right to feel how we feel about it. I don't see how anyone can spend years - decades - establishing an emotional investment in this and then just be like, eh whatever when a player that they've been rooting for decides to go help a team they hate be better than theirs.
I'll try to wrap this up briefly now. I was trying to explain earlier that I don't really begrudge Marshall as much as I do Burton. The underlying point there is that I do actually try to be pretty open-minded with this stuff and give players the benefit of the doubt whenever possible. But specifically choosing a rival/nemesis when it seems unnecessary is just a bridge too far for me.
Yes, by all means...he should have stayed at Georgia and sacrificed any chance he has at getting drafted. No, he should not have gone to a school that puts LB into the league at a similar clip as Georgia because...well he chose Georgia and had the misfortune to get injured a few times and get passed on the depth chart.
People are forgetting, he is going to Alabama because they have a reputation. He could go to other schools, but at the end of the day, like it or not, Alabama is the best place to go outside of Georgia if you want to play defense and go to the NFL. The guy has a life to live and he gave 4 years of it to UGA. I'm with Schumann...go be great. Go to Alabama, immediately start and show the Tide fans what real player development looks like.
Another great comment, E_Roc. Partly, we're on the same page: We both would agree that it's sad and frustrating that things are changing (although I'm guessing that our perspectives would be different were players!).
Where I differ is that, once the athlete decides to transfer, I don't hold it against if he decides what to do what he feels is in his best interest -- even if that means he'll play for an arch-rival.
What bothers me more is watching these young men make the wrong decision for themselves, which is what bothered me about Burton and would have bothered me had Mims stayed in the TP. On the other hand, just about all the guys who are transferring out this year seem to be doing the right thing for themselves basically because they're second and third stringers who'll get more playing time on a team that's not as deep with talent.
The exception this year may be AD Mitchell but it sounds to me that that was in the works for a while, that it has something to do with wanting to be back in Texas, and even that he may have informed the UGA staff of his thinking so that they went out and got two WRs to make up for losing him (???).
Most of the time the TP will work to the advantage of UGA and other powerhouses, because generally we'll lose people who we won't miss so much while (except for last year) we gain better players to fill gaps on our rosters. Meanwhile, schools with middling to bad programs lose some of their best players to higher profile programs (e.g. Jordan Addison, Dominic Lovett).
As for the example of Kirby. You're right it's problematic because of he was going home. Better example: Saban going from LSU to Alabama -- OK? Not sure what LSU fans were saying about that, but I don't think the general feeling across the SEC was that he was being a "traitor."
How's that for rambling? ;-)
Thanks @DallasDawg. Very kind of you.
I was thinking/hoping/worrying pretty much the same thing about Schuman ... and Monken.
Monken has been an awesome OC! I don't know whether anyone else could have molded our offense the way he did, first on the fly last year (when they switched to SBIV and to some extent Bowers) and then this year (when he was so creative in using Bowers and Washington).
@E_Roc and the others:
Oh get off it with "it is bad when players do it but fine when coaches do it" nonsense.
You like Kirby Smart? If loyalty meant anything to you it wouldn't. You know why?
Because Kirby Smart was on the UGA staff in 2005. Split to go work with Saban. You know, the same Saban who knocked UGA out of the title game by beating them twice in 2003?
OK, fine. Smart was a position coach then. Needed to look out for himself and rise up the coaching ladder. Except ... Richt tried to get Smart back in 2010. When Smart was already a national championship co-coordinator. But Smart turned UGA down and Richt hired Todd Grantham instead. How'd that work out? Remember 2012, where Bama just barely beats UGA and then goes on to slaughter the complete frauds Notre Dame for the title? Who doesn't think that said game doesn't go entirely different if UGA had Smart's coaching and recruiting instead of Grantham? Who believes that UGA doesn't become the dominant program of the era if Smart doesn't leave Bama then instead of sticking around to win them the 2011, 2012 and 2015 titles?
Oh yeah, and about that 2015 title, Kirby didn't join UGA right away. If he had, he could have gotten UGA some players on the recruiting trail that were going to be badly needed in 2016 (when they went 7-5 during the regular season and lost to Vandy), 2017 (when they lost the title to Bama by 1 play, or one player who would have made it) or 2018 (when again a lack of playmakers and depth cost them against Alabama and LSU. Nope. He stayed with Bama and showed loyalty to the same Bama coach and program that had broken UGA hearts so much.
Just get off the nonsense and admit it. You hold coaches to a different standard than players. You see coaches as free men who have the agency to come and go to better themselves as they please. And you see players as indentured servants to these coaches and fans, and want these players to remain so no matter the consequences to their futures.
Because look. Whether you admit it or not, Kirby Smart hasn't produced a single successful NFL WR. Javon Wims, Riley Ridley and Terry Godwin were late round picks that were all out of the NFL within 3 years. Mecole Hardman was a 2nd round pick, but didn't develop his skills due to a lack of targets, is an NFL bust and even if the Chiefs do retain him it will be for the veteran minimum and a small signing bonus. And the offense that Smart was going to run based on Bennett's abilities and limitations wasn't going to allow any WR to put up numbers or be a high draft pick. If you can name the last 1st or 2nd round draft pick at WR who had 750 yards receiving a year in college that wasn't a once in a generation athlete like Pickens or didn't run a 4.3 40 like Hardman, go ahead. Do it.
But according to you guys, Burton and Marshall were supposed to ruin their financial prospects like Ridley and Godwin did because of "loyalty" while Smart was free to stick around to help Bama win yet another title that they didn't need. By? Because to you guys, coaches who make millions - and lately head coaches get tens of millions are free men and players ... aren't. Yes, some players get NIL now. (Not that you are happy about that. Not a penny of it comes from the athletics department, university funds or taxpayers but you still don't like the fact that players can earn a dime.) Just go ahead and admit it. The lot of you will be better people for it.
Please tell me more, thadec. I've been just dying to know who this person I call "me" is, and now, at long last, I have someone who can tell me! My life simply won't be complete without a thorough dispensing of your invaluable insight. Please, I beg you, tell me all about who I am and what I think. You're the only one who can do it.
Getting back to rational conversation. I'm sure the more this business of players transferring to villainous opponents sinks in, the more I'll get used to it. Again, I see the points you make here, and as I explained below, it's not like I'm generally opposed to players seeking better opportunities for themselves (despite the words that certain others would try to put in my mouth). What gets me is that one of the key features of the sport, as I see it, is the intensity of the rivalries. So it's hard for me to wrap my head around the idea of a player transferring to one. My gut feeling was that it diminishes the significance of it all if players can just be like, eh I'm playing for them now. But the more I think about, that could just add to the intensity of it all, which I suppose is the point that this article was trying to make. Heroes becoming villains and whatnot. (To put my own spin on it)
What I don't want is to reach a point where no one cares. Keep playing for team A, or go to the team they used to hate, it's all the same. Just one big material transaction. I just hope we don't reach a point where everyone is that blasè about it. In the end, that's all I'm really trying to say.
I don't think most people are against ahtletes getting paid for their name and likeness, it's how the system currently operates that seems uhm, flawed. I don't believe most people want the best HS athletes just going to the schools who offer the most dollars or companies with the deepest pockets bank rolling these colleges(players).
It's just going to be a scaled down(somewhat) version of the NFL and a bunch of free agents, just going to the highest bidder. I'm Ok with UGA or BAMA or Whatever school getting the best athletes if they are just out-recruiting other schools and these schools are just more desirable to play at because they put more players in the League or they're just noted for playing for a NC.
I don't think I'm even comfortable with a kid coming to UGA from out of state, just because we offered him a better NIL deal than school B did and for no other reason. Not that there wasn't the very highest recruits getting cash in Krystal bags before all of this(sure it happened) but it definitely wasn't as prevalent and as destructive for ameteur sports as the NIL system.
THe Genie seems to be out of the bottle and I don't think you can put him back in. Hope I'm wrong. Getting into a bidding war for the services of an 18 year old kid, where one deal offers him a Bently and the other program can only offer a Chevy Blazer, somehow I don't think that end well for that kid. Imagine Kirby getting on a kid in practice who drives a Bently to school and the kid thinking to himself, why do I have to put up with this? We'll see.
AS reddawg1 states below there are problems with the portal(free agency) and the NIL that need to be solved or college football will become the NFL Lite. At that point a lot more people will find something else to do on Saturday afternoons.I was a diehard fan of the NFL for most of my life but I haven't watched the NFL in years and at this point I no longer miss it a nd will never go back. I hope college football finds remedies the problems before it destroys itself.
One thing that should be looked at as far as the NIL fiasco is concerned is to place the money in a trust with the player getting access to after his collegiate career is over. The free agency the portal allows has no easy fix and could kill many colleges football programs. The golden goose that is college football could be killed and replaced with a quasi professional league that will be isolated in the largest and wealthiest schools. All those athletes that were never going to play in the NFL but were afforded an education to let themselves prosper off the field will never get that opportunity.
Many of us have forgotten that they are supposed to be students first and athletes second.