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Comments
Do you really need to read a 9 page rebuttal to see that there is a speeding/racing problem at UGA that claimed 2 lives? CKS obviously let it slide until it resulted in tragedy and drew unwanted attention. ANY motor vehicle is a missile capable of doing damage and killing. Coaching, off the field, is needed as much or more than coaching on the field at that age. You cannot keep having the same problem. That reflects a lack of leadership.
I don't know what went on beyond what has been document by police records. Was the Jamal Jarrett case "weaponized" to be used in a hit piece by Judd? IDK. I guess. I wasn't there. The woman was an employee of UGA? There was a 16 year old and alcohol involved? CKS has an unenviable job managing so many young people. But his "player leadership" approach seems to need a coaching leadership component enhancement.
But the fact remains that UGA had a problem and the recent speeding arrests/tickets (Morrissette, Mpemba) are indicative that the problem continues. MPemba's 88 in a 55 tells me the message isn't strong enough. It continues to be a bad look for UGA that continues to garner media commentary. Hence the UGA rebuttal comments. UGA wants nothing more than making this story disappear. The threat of a lawsuit will probably get the AJC and Judd to back off.
This is on CKS's watch. He is the head man. The responsibility falls on him to clean it up.
Not sure why anyone would argue that. But I have found that objectivity is in short supply among most fans of their teams.
This case will never see a courtroom. You can almost guarantee that. Are you kidding me? What "journalist" wouldn't LOVE to drag a major college football program through the mud in a major court case. That is a Pulitzer Prize waiting to be collected. UGA does not want to have to produce any information through the subpoena process. UGA wants this case to go away quietly. Attorneys posture to intimidate daily. CKS runs about as clean a program as anyone in CFB. But UGA still does not want all of its business dragged into the light. Have you ever heard of Kirby's Law? It was not created by accident.
Does the AJC immediately cease and desist or do they keep tweaking UGA? Will the AJC offer a retraction? So far they haven't. It will be interesting to watch play out. It sure got a lot of attention and probably sold a lot of newspapers for the AJC.
Yes, I have children that graduated from UGA. I just look at the University a little more objectively than most of the fanatics.
I mean, duhhhhhhhhhhhh. No (yes, I know that "no" is an absolute, and it's definitely relative here, but I think y'all get it) 22-year-old just happens to have the money needed to buy those monsters. Was that even a question?
Bet you won't show up at the 1st Dawg Walk of the season...and say that to their faces...."Keyboard Warrior". Lol
Paul Finebaum is too old and too professional, to engage in the self-debasing chore of "suckling at Satan's **** of lies" in order to cobble a story together.
I blame the WOKE editors at these various publications, for allowing these shortcuts to "Breaking News". I'd be shocked if the AJC hired anybody over the age of 35, as an Editor. Kids in charge of kids, in the News Room. Fix that problem...AJC.
Frankly...I don't see how the "gaslighting behavior" of some of these so-called "journalists", is any less sinister than "plagiarism". A lie, is a lie, is a lie.
And, by God...if you see "a lie" being reported as truth...it's your duty as a human being, to call it out. Or, you're just as guilty of spreading "the lie", as the originator.
It's possible that some of you don't see this as a lie. That's okay. Don't fret...you'll get there in your own due time. In the meantime...please refrain from lending any validity to this horse manure of a story by defending it as "unbiased"...because, it's clearly a biased one-direction, single angle story.
If you believe the story...there must be a reason, so please share the set of verifiable "facts" that led you to conclude it was true.
For instance...how many speeding tickets did all Div1 College Football players receive, in 2018, '19, '20, '21 and '22. What was the "SEC average" for tickets per University. Where does UGA sit among it's peers?
NONE of that very relevant information was provided. What bothers me, is that the AJC may have done the research...they may already know, that that information won't help their UGA narrative. In fact...that information could blow their entire narrative out of water. And, they're suppressing it.
I have a hard time believing, a "reporter" wasn't curious enough to look at facts that could either bolster their claims or debunk them. The way I see it...they know, but, aren't saying,.....which is libelous to the UGA Bulldogs Football Team, Coaches and Players. UGA will prove that in court.
All they have to do is assign their "Universal Soldier"...Brock Bowers...to their team of Lawyers and you can stick a fork in the AJC. Lol
"This is on CKS's watch. He is the head man. The responsibility falls on him to clean it up.
Not sure why anyone would argue that. But I have found that objectivity is in short supply among most fans of their teams."______Ugadad20
What "data" have you seen, that convinces you, that a "problem" exists, now...that did NOT exist last year, last decade, or last century, at every other school in the Country? At greater or lesser magnitude?
This whole thing is blowing up, because a couple of kids died in January, while drinking and racing. And....Willock wasn't "breaking the law", BTW. He was a passenger and possibly "passed out" or "napping" when it all happened. Not that it matters. Just sayin'...none of us were there, so we don't know what led to the racing. Conjecture helps no one, but, the Devil. Lol
I get it...the goal is zero tickets, zero accidents, zero arrests. But, that's just not very realistic and blowing it up into something it's NOT, is just another blow to "media integrity", IMO. I would love to believe everything I read. It's just not very smart...or, responsible to do that, in these day-and-times.
If we can't believe what we see and read in the news....why the hell should these kids heed everything that comes out of the mouth of their Professors and Coaches. Credibility across the media spectrum, is shot. When the media goes...the rest of society is sure to follow.
It's important that we have trust and faith in our media. They've proven at every turn, over the last 10 years, that only a fool, would take what they report, "at face value". I don't think you are a "fool"...so, what do you know, that apparently, the rest of us don't?
I'm looking for a little "objectivity".
The sad and disgusting thing about this writer and those supporting them is they don't care about actually fixing anything or doing real work. There goal is to destroy and tear down while making some money for the AJC. Who cares how many people get wrecked in the process...
Now I feel that giving a kid a 2nd chance who may not have the best parental situation has it's limits but JJ was a 16 year old at the time. Now we know the rest of the story about a 20 year female buying a hotel room and that the interaction was consensual. It looks pretty bad on the 20 year old lady as well. Now we are talking about a minor here at 16. Did he sneak out past curfew? Yes, after reporting in. So it's pretty apparent that this player needs guidance. Should the staff have given this kid a 2nd chance and a scholarship for something that apparently was never formally charged? Is it possible their might be more of a chance of a 20 year old getting charged in this situation? Not sure. Should the new policy be that every kid who has an allegation against (no matter how unverifiable) them should not get a scholarship offer? How many ex-girlfriends are going to use this as a weapon? Think it won't happen if this is a known policy? Lots to think about here.
I don't have a problem with this player getting a scholarship offer for what I read in the rebuttal. I believe most 16 year olds need 2nd chances and you shouldn't throw a kid under the bus for an allegation. However, these types of situations need to be evaluated on a case to case basis. It is my understanding that the player was told his scholarship would be pulled if the allegation became a formal charge.
As far at the 2 other incidents. Both were off the team within about a week. Neither have of this date been found guilty that I know of. So how can any of these 3 incidents be counted as a part of the 11? It sounds like everything was handled pretty well. Remember, facts are stubborn things and the accusation/insinuation is that sexual misbehavior is not only tolerated but that coaches and players rally around such behavior. A gross mischaracterisation that is not present in the 3 incidents mentioned above.
So, we have no good examples from the AJC or it's writer Alan Judd.
I think Mr. Judd if he has the goods should put them out there with his evidence and allow the AD and coach a chance to fix the situation. If not then it looks like more allegations and conjecture. Allegations and conjecture will get you sued if put out in the public square.
The ball is in Alan Judd's court. Georgia appears to have done everything by the book.
@BigDawg61
"The AJC has determined that since 2016, Georgia players have been cited at least 74 times for going 20 mph or more over the speed limit." From the AJC article. BTW I didn't write or report that. But 74 seems like a lot.
I assume that the AJC got their information from The Georgia Open Information Act. That sounds pretty factual (objective) to me.
I assume those 74 cases are documented or they would not have been reported. Don't you? Are you saying the AJC lied about the number of speeding incidences? Is the AJC that desperate for a story or to try and take UGA down that they made up approximately 68 speeding incidences?
We know what tragically happened in January. We know of JDJ, JCarter, Morrissette, and MPemba. Other's have also been reported on Dawgnation. We know of at least 2 that have been reported since January.
Isn't that all objective reporting of factual information? Didn't we all read that JCarter plead guilty?
Is all this angst about sexual assault allegations? Because I never mentioned THAT/THOSE until my last response to 888. I was specifically referring to the ongoing speeding issues. I only mentioned Jarratt because he was 16 and allegedly had/been provided alcohol. Also, the night of the crash was the night of the NC celebration. The crash occurred after drinking and while racing back from a s t r i p club. It was reported that multiple players were at the club and possibly some recruits that attended the celebration were also at the club.
All indications of program that needs some leadership attention.
I am sure there must be other issues when talking about roughly 100 18-22 yo men. But I am not aware of what those issues may be. Just what I referenced objectively.
If you have more objective information please share it.
If you are looking for a debate on the general state of the media and their reporting propensities, you won't get one from me. The general media seems bent on pushing their agenda and ideals upon everyone. But continuing to stick your head in the sand over a recognized (CKS) UGA speeding problem shows you lack of objectivity.
BTW I read this today on SDS. "I’m responsible for this program, and it starts with me. " CKS and "I will not tolerate false accusations that this program or this university condone sexual misconduct. " Notice he chose his words very carefully. CKS/UGA don't condone it but he didn't say it never happened.
@UGADad20
74 speeding incidents over 8 years. Or 9 speeding incidents a year for a total of 300 plus players during that entire time. 74 sounds like a lot but over 8 years maybe not as big a deal as you are making it out to be.
Once again I come back to my original question which is what is the appropriate punishment for speeding?
As a follow up I would ask why the current laws on the books are or are not adequate?
Lastly, if you are not happy with the speeding laws what additional punishment should athletes get above and beyond what a normal student would get?
Do you agree that athletes deserve harsher punishments just by being part of a team?
If so why?
Seems to me that these athletes are getting additional punishment for speeding beyond the normal student. Do you have any proof otherwise? and if you were a parent or guardian would you want to send your kid to a school where the football coach did not look out for his son?
Please answer these questions because based on your prior writings it is hard for me to understand how you actually have a child(ren) that went or goes to UGA. There seems to be a lack of compassion for the age of these student athletes and the fact they are young and make mistakes. I absolutely would want Kirby looking out for my son. I trust he would mix compassion with corrective action and not overdo it or throw my kid under the bus to save himself.
I enjoy the writers at Dawgnation but the AJC as we knew it is gone . Lots of turnover lately so you have cowboys writing for views because advertising doesn’t pay the bills anymore. Like I said before their sister company ,WSB lost the rights for UGA shows so get use to the Bulldawg Bashing .
@BigDawg888
Actually 74 over 7.5 yrs or about 10/yr but I get your point.
Not about compassion it is about coaching/teaching. 10 EVERY year. Think about that. That seems like the message is not getting through. OR the (strictly?) player leadership council needs some adjustment. 2 people DIED and they are STILL speeding. Tell me how you think what has been done has been an effective means of dealing with a 10/yr problem?
It seems like UGA players speeding is like the crime (ex shoplifting in SF) in the cities. No significant repercussions, no need to obey the laws. And is this speeding an indication of a loss of institutional control? There obviously was not institutional control when a hosting employee used a University vehicle to shuttle players (and possibly recruits?) to and from a Gentlemen's club.
The privilege of playing football for UGA comes with conditions. Conditions above and beyond that of regular students as a high profile representative of the University. As Saban said "this is not a democracy". CKS makes the rules for being on the football team. Not society or the State of GA.
But if it is a 10/yr problem then it is not been fixed. If you want to play for UGA,UGA expects the highest standard at practice and on the field. Does/should that expectation stop at the edge of the field/locker room? Seems hypocritical. Or is it "we will win at all costs"? UGA now being compared to FU under Urban Meyer by fan bases and media across the country.
At this point, 2 strikes and your out is probably not going to fix the problem. Going forward should a player have an egregious (> 15 mph over?) speeding ticket/arrest dismissal probably should be in order. Since the problem has not been fixed stronger repercussions are in order or the problem continues. Representatives of the football program are embarrassing the University. Throw a few players off the team and the other's may get the message. Before someone else gets killed. Sure they'll transfer. But they will be someone else's problem IF they can't abide by the rules and standards of the UGA football team. How is that harsh or too much to ask?
So yes the football players, as representatives of UGA, should be held to a higher standard. That is not throwing a kid under the bus. That is setting an expectation for acceptable behavior. Also setting an expectation for consequences for unacceptable actions and choices.
Had these expectations been set in 2019 instead of 2023 we might not have 2 families dealing with the loss of a child.
Why don't we all go 88 in a 55 (or was it 90 in a 45?) ? Because we know it is not safe and there are unpleasant repercussions even if we don't wreck. UGA players don't seem to be getting that message. 10 per yr. Every year.
"Going forward should a player have an egregious (> 15 mph over?) speeding ticket/arrest dismissal probably should be in order."
That is really what your policy would be? Anyone who gets a ticket over 15 mph over should be kicked off the team for their first offense? Really?
I simply think that is over the top. Well I guess you answered the question which is what I asked. I am frankly shocked at this admission.
I'm not arguing the stipulated facts....I'm arguing that the conclusions drawn from limited factual information is flawed. Some of the assumptions and speculations, are being presented as fact...so, they can be referenced as "fact", and not as the "opinions" that they are. That's how the media works, now.
You, yourself used words like "assume" and phrases like "must be" and "indications of". Those aren't facts...they are conclusions. I'm just saying that unwarranted "conclusions" are being drawn based on one News organization's research and reporting. Actually....one "reporter's" research and reporting.
If they really think there's an issue at UGA that is unique to UGA...seems like they would lay the facts out there, to show that. Just reporting on traffic violations by UGA Football Players over an 8 year period, tells me nothing without something to draw contrast against it.
Like filming an airplane against a solid blue sky...vs...filming that same plane against a backdrop of clouds, to show relative motion.
Or, taking a picture of a 10 foot Rattler on a backdrop of asphalt without holding a ruler, or hand, or dollar bill next to it for reference.
Or...taking a photo of a fish while holding up in front of the lens and standing back. Lol...makes the fish look bigger.
If that kind of faulty perception and alternate reality, can be formed with photographic arts...it can be done at least twice as easily with the written arts.
I'm not going as far as saying the conclusions drawn are "wrong". I WILL say it's too soon with too little information, to draw any solid conclusions.
All we can do, is "assume" and "speculate". It's one thing for you and I...and others on Dawg Nation to sssume and speculate. But, in my mind, it's quite another thing for the media to do it with their megaphone under the guise of "well researched truth & fact". Especially, when they refuse to address and, continue to ignore, relevant information.
Like you said...you can only "assume" that 74 violations in an 8 year period is bad. Why are we left "to assume" that. It wouldn't take that much more, to go ahead and verify it....IF, they could.
Just look at other programs over that same time frame. Is it "Less than", "Greater than"...or "equal to"? That's not too much information to ask for, in order to add context and corroboration to the assumptions flying around. Otherwise...what are we talking about it, for? Lol
I wouldn't pay him any more attention on this issue. He has made it obvious that he wants to punish the hell out of every player for any offense and kick off everyone possible so we can be a clean program. You will never convince someone who wants to kick off a guy for a first time offense of 15 mph over the speed limit. With that low threshold applied to the entire university we would be losing a thousand kids a year from UGA. These other kids that wiz by me all the time in far less expensive cars. So I don't think it is just an expensive car issue either.
Just kick everyone out from everything until we all drive the speed limit again. Problem solved.
Back in the 50's and 60's when Disney made movies that were worth watching, because they were entertaining and they taught useful lessons, I learned the answer to today conundrum...Bad Press. The Dawgs are the kings of the hill, top of the class, the pentacle of perfection and as such easy marks for take down. Today's media is on a sinking ship. Of course they will always shoot their lifeline at the highest possible target....The AJC airing The Dawgs dirty laundry is to be expected, along with the ESPN pundits, anonymous D-1 coaches, Gator fans and idiot Bama call ins on the Finebaum show. Yep, I remember it like it was last Sunday night. My mom, dad, brother, sister and Penny the pointer hanging on every word from Walt Disney's lips. It was Pinocchio and Jiminey Cricket was singing "Accentuate the Positive". To that end I'd love Dawgnation to highlight charitable endeavors of our DAWGS...starting with the DGD Fund!
GOOOOO DAWGS, SICEM!
@BigDawg61
Problems are not unique to UGA. But having a similar problem at another institution does not excuse UGA from having a problem. They have a problem so we can have a problem is not setting the bar for excellence. UGA is trying very hard to set the bar for football excellence. At the expense of developing the teams standard for excellence off the field? After we leave the locker room we really don't care anymore?
IF 74 speeding violations in 7.5 yrs IS accurate then that is a problem. None of us care what goes on at other schools. Only how UGA is dealing with what seems to be an ongoing problem. IF you have 10/yr you are not fixing the problem.
74 violations over an 7.5 yr period IS bad. It shows that there is a problem that is not being addressed. It smacks of a coach that is looking the other way and "boy's will be boy's" mentality. It is a problem otherwise it would not be against the law. Now IF (IDK) UGA had 25 in '16 and 20 in '17 and 15 in '18 and 5 in '19 etc etc we could say that UGA is improving on solving the problem.
Yes I am tired of talking about it. I am sure CKS is tired of talking about it. Obviously the UGA lawyers are tired of the AJC talking about it (how UGA runs their program). CKS/UGA has been forced to address PERCEIVED issues with the program. So much so that lawyers have gotten involved and CKS has discussed some changes and steps w/in the program to minimize any future issues.
The biggest misstep would be if tragedy doesn't drive some positive change in the program.
Is it being blown way out of proportion? IDK. It is not my problem to fix/program to run. CFB, in general, has a pretty **** reputation for under the table payments, win at all cost programs, negative recruiting, mistreatment of athletes, etc. CFB is not the high water mark for ethical behavior across the University educational system. We love our football. Maybe not enough people are asking "is this CFB or minor league NFL?" What is the price for building a winning program?
But I am betting that CKS has learned a lesson about the spotlight at the top of the mountain. Expect some additional coaching and oversight over the program going forward.
Watching the UGA/AJC duel play out over the last 5(?) weeks of the offseason (if it does) will be something to watch until the football starts.