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- Please no inappropriate usernames (remember that there may be youngsters in the room)
- Personal attacks on other community members are unacceptable, practice the good manners your mama taught you when engaging with fellow Dawg fans
- Use common sense and respect personal differences in the community: sexual and other inappropriate language or imagery, political rants and belittling the opinions of others will get your posts deleted and result in warnings and/ or banning from the forum
- 3/17/19 UPDATE -- We've updated the permissions for our "Football" and "Commit to the G" recruiting message boards. We aim to be the best free board out there and that has not changed. We do now ask that all of you good people register as a member of our forum in order to see the sugar that is falling from our skies, so to speak.
Comments
You left out the part about the substitute teacher antagonizing him before that outburst for not saying the pledge. He definitely overreacted and removing him was necessary at that point but his rights were violated first.
OP said, "If you don’t respect our flag, our national anthem, please feel free to move to Venezuela,Cuba, Russia, or any other communist countries and stay there." [cannot quote as I get a status code 403 error - whatever that is.]
There are only 5 communist countries left
People's Republic of China
Democratic People's Republic of Korea (North Korea)
Socialist Republic of Vietnam
Lao People's Democratic Republic (Laos)
Republic of Cuba
So, of those named, Cuba would be the closest to travel to. Staying there might be a problem.
There are plenty of thugocracies, of which Russia is A-1 on the list (although one can be a communist country and a thugocracy as is North Korea). "President" Xi is making China into a thugocracy - stand by for that.
We are citizens, not automatons. As citizens we have freedom of speech with respect to our government. Also freedom of assembly, and no requirement to stand or stoop or grovel or kneel. And no prohibition of doing any of those things. Obviously employers are not bound by those rules, at least in most cases involving employment. Colin Kapernick (sp?) is paying the price for his gesture. Someone mentioned Muhammed Ali. He paid the price to the government for his civil disobedience. But he also gave up his "belts" and such, so his "employment"/livelihood was affected. The key point is that they paid a price for expressing their views in our society.
The flag, national anthem, and pledge of allegiance (to the flag) are symbols. Only the flag has longevity in the Republic. The national anthem is from the 1930s, and the pledge of allegiance ** is a 1950s reaction to communism, of which 5 nations still survive. So from 1789, this country survived some 140 years or more without either a NA or a PoA, including wars with several single nations, a world war (or 2), and a huge War Between the States (civil war to some).
I think those Ole Miss players are willing to pay the price for their variance from popular norms. Leave them alone. They'll stay right here as far as I am concerned. FYI: I am a veteran.
/** The pledge of allegiance is one of the silliest statements one can utter as a citizen of this country. You pledge allegiance to a flag? No, you only pledge allegiance to the US Constitution as a citizen. Not even the Republic, which could be one in which the Constitution has been overthrown and it is a Republic in the same sense as the North Korea is a republic. As a soldier, one swears to uphold the US Constitution. And then there is the "under God" clause. That makes it truly American, yes (eye roll)? And why does a school day have to begin with the Pledge? Is the night a traitorous period so that at daybreak, the treason must be expunged? Silly.
"
@FirePlugDawg - Excellent post!
@Bankwalker - How's it going bud? I hope well.
According to the Lakeland Ledger (link below), there's no reportage of the kid making threats. but there is a line here where it says he became disruptive. But what does that mean exactly? There was clearly pressure on an 11 year old child to do this because the teacher said, (allegedgly) "Why if it was so bad here he did not go to another place to live?” If that's true - and I believe it is after having lived in Lakeland and understanding its culture - it's highly in appropriate and echoes some Know-Noting Bircher BS. It's why she will no longer be subbing in that school system. Anyway, I don't buy the school's excuse that he wasn't arrested because he refused to stand. The spokesman for the school said that the kids aren't required to stand for the pledge, That statement was made knowing this would result in court in an attempt to cover their behinds. If it weren't for the pressure put on a pre-pubescent boy to get in line, I doubt that the conflict would have even started.
Who is in charge of the class? The teacher. Who tells the kids to stand? The teacher. If the child didn't want to stand and it was within the school's policy for the students to have the right refuse to do so, then I can imagine that it's at that point the conflict began.
And children becoming disruptive in school? I've never heard of such behavior! Arrest them all if they dare step out of line. If a student becomes disruptive then suspend that student. Arresting an 11 year old kid because he or she will not fall in line w/ your political agenda is wrong.
After reading all of these comments about the flag, we should all remember that it's a symbol, and symbols are highly complex and powerful things that mean many different things to many different people. We shouldn't assume that our interpretation of the symbol is the same as everyone else's, and therefore should not assume our reactions to it will be in lockstep conformity with our own, whatever our political opinions may be.
Freedom of expression - you either accept it or you don't. That's why, even with my political leanings, I support the Klan's right to peacefully assemble, though I find it nauseating, depressing, vile, and blatantly ****. And frankly, not only disrespectful to the flag, but borderline treasonous.
@YaleDawg No, I didn't leave out the part about him being asked to stand. Any nitwit can deduce that he was asked to stand by reading anything related to the story. Implied facts I assumed unnecessary for such an intellectually gifted audience.
@kelly_b I am well. Hope you are the same.
I can't find the story I read when I posted because so many others have since followed, but here's one that essentially coers it. "According to a statement from the Lakeland Police Department, the boy then “created another disturbance and made threats while he was escorted to the office.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2019/02/17/florida-sixth-grader-charged-with-misdemeanor-after-refusing-recite-pledge-allegiance/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.b462a3526730
Making threats will get you arrested in most situations, and when a school is involved the police have a pretty strict duty to arrest anyone who makes threats given the last 20 years of school violence.. Would anyone care to disagree with that statement?
There was nothing to cover their butts over up to that point. This would be a non-story if no disciplinary action had been taken. If some kid goes home and says a teacher corrected him for not standing for the pledge, the news wouldn't give a shinola until the school had taken some sort of official action against the child. As far a removing the child from the classroom, think about the standard that would be set if a child gets to yell at a teacher and remain in the classroom. Not gonna happen. The story here is about the arrest, which wasn't needed as a cover story because up until that point there was nothing to cover up. The school wouldn't have disciplined the kid because neither the principal nor superintendent would want to go on CNN to defend such an obviously unconstitutional event.
You guys sound like idiots arguing over an incident where it’s pretty clear all we have is one side spinning it their way and the other side spinning it the other way.
We don’t know what happened in that classroom.
@Bankwalker - I'm having problems getting to the Post piece. Sorry - that sometimes happens because of new EU Privacy laws. Two quick points: Grady Judd Polk Co. Sheriff/Lkld Police dept have both been embroiled in multiple scandals for years. They often push it (e.g. Judd arrested an outspoken atheist because she signed a paper esquire - he's well known to hate atheists; the LKLD PD had so many problems it led to a sea change an mulitple lawsuits, not only from individuals, but from the state) , so I only ask that we be skeptical about their accounts of the situation. The second thing is, peaceful protest isn't unconstitutional. It's embedded in the first amendment. I might become disruptive if I were told I couldn't exercise my First Amendment rights which are in line with school policy. The language is very clear:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Actually, we don't sound like idiots. We're basing our posts on the reportage we've seen. Or at least I am. I hope you have a wonderful night.
EDIT: I'll also add that, despite our political disagreements @Bankwalker - at least our exchanges are civil, without personal attacks, such as, I dunno, calling someone an idiot.
backpedalin' @Bankwalker at it again. You never mentioned it which is the same thing as leaving it out. The entire perception of the story changes when you know the substitute antagonized him and violated his rights. Any adult would become agitated at that yet you expect a child to act rationally under those circumstances? If he acted as the police say he did then yes he should have been removed from the class but fault also lies with the sub for instigating the event and he definitely shouldn't have been arrested and suspended at most.
"garbage about the flag being racist"
why is that a garbage for an African American 6th grader to believe that? Like another poster mentioned, the flag is nothing more than symbolism; in this case it represents the USA.
The same USA with an ug-lee, prolonged history of MASSIVE racism against numerous races. I can't blame someone who acknowledges the ug-lee truth.
Y’all need to let this topic die in the fiery pit of hell and get back to football for goodness sakes. Too much dissention in the offseason from boredom
@YaleDawg Just so I'm clear - you believe that the student should have been able to make threats toward teachers, administrators, and/or the school without being arrested by the police officer who witnessed the threats? How many school shootings have we had in this country?
Can you explain what bias the police officer has that would motivate him/her to fabricate any such hypothetical threats for the purposes of "covering" for the school and substitute teacher?
There's no backpeddaling by me - ever. I admit my mistakes, and no such mistake has occurred here. I just assume that anyone so genius as to have YALE in their handle just so everyone knows they were brilliant enough to attend Yale, would be able to see that there's no need to mention the fact the kid didn't stand for the pledge when the very conversation is about the fact the kid didn't stand for the pledge. Do you think someone believes the kid didn't stand for the pledge and then started a disruption without any provocation?
Come on. Exercise that Ivy League brain you want everyone who visits this forum to know you have, YALEdawg.
@Midnite_Train Kids who are only 11 years old are not mentally mature enough to develop specific opinions about racism and the flag on their own without having adults feed that BS in to their brain. Their view of the World is not big enough and their exposure is certainly not large enough. That kid has a bitter parent raising a child to be a bitter person. I hope you weren't the victim of the same kind of upbringing.
As to the OP, I choose to not reveal my stance on the incident. What I will say, is that it is NOT the biggest problem we have in our nation, nor is it racism. Does racism exist? YES, it does! The most obvious thing that is setting us back in this great country is the unbelievable over inflation of Americans’ sense of entitlement. Over the last 50 years, it has gotten extremely out of hand! Do I stand for Freedom for All? HELL yes! I do! But there has to be some lines drawn somewhere.
Both sets of protestors in this incident were faced with, “I can do this, but should I do this?” I know this is a tricky issue, but there’s TOO MUCH of the I can (or I deserve) and not enough of maybe I shouldn’t. And being as I don’t have an answer as to how we fix this outside of a catastrophic war on our soil, I don’t know how to fix it. Please don’t misunderstand me, I am NOT pro war. I am 100% anti war. I’d like to hear some of your opinions on how we go back to understanding the difference between a “want” and “need.” Also, just because we “can” should we “do.”
@Bankwalker I've seen high schoolers fight each other screaming I'll kill you and they just got suspended. I think an 11 year old who had has rights taken away doesnt deserve a harsher punishment than that. This was a child provoked by an adult. If the accounts are true the child was way out of line but you lay all of the blame at the feet of a kid and none on the adult who should know better and instigated the entire thing. He needs to learn how to handle those situations better but again he is 11 and being treated as a criminal instead of a child who needs to learn from his mistake. If you cant witness what happened it's foolish to blindly trust anyone else.
Edit: I never said the police were covering for the school. Not sure where you got that and the bias thing? He likely did cause disruption but we have no video evidence yet so we can't be sure to what extent.
**sigh**
How 'bout them Dawgs?
You’re not gonna like it any more this time than last.
But I tried to tell you.