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Quarterback guru David Cutcliffe theorizes why Arch Manning didn’t choose Georgia

SystemSystem Posts: 7,416 admin
edited August 2022 in Article commenting
imageQuarterback guru David Cutcliffe theorizes why Arch Manning didn’t choose Georgia

ATHENS — Championship coaches like Kirby Smart take a hard look in the mirror after defeats, be that on the field or on the recruiting trail.

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  • kirkhilleskirkhilles Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited August 2022

    I have no idea of the situation Texas is in, but personally I wouldn't have chosen Georgia myself in the QB position. We always seem to have an over-abundance of quality QBs with a serious lack of WRs. Bennett works great for us because we are a short-game type of offense. We aren't going to load up WRs on every play and QBs that have amazing stats (like Aaron Murray) don't make it to the NFL while someone like Stafford (drafted #1, lighting up stats in the NFL) didn't exactly have those record breaking stats.

    I have also openly questioned how good Manning truly is based on his stats (3-star is accurate and he didn't improve) and the teams he played. This was basically someone that was playing rec-level football and while he has the genetics and obviously the build, he's a long way from being a proven commodity.

    But look, if you look at the draft results, they don't come just from the most dominate programs out there. The 2nd person drafted came from a 6-7 LSU team. It's better to find a team where you can show-off your skills and maybe play opponents that aren't the absolute best out there.

  • MikeGriffithMikeGriffith Posts: 3,661 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @kirkhilles That's a good take with a lot of truth in it. Georgia went all-in on his recruitment, no other QBs, so it's interesting, to be sure!

  • KudzuKudzu Posts: 352 ✭✭✭✭ Senior

    Personally, this is a loss that I've never been overly concerned about, and the points @kirkhilles makes are largely why. I think our existing QB room is stellar on their own for the next few years.

    That said, if many of us agree that Arch may be a bit oversold, then why would intelligent coaches like Smart and Monken go "all in"...? I'm guessing because of the skills players that MIGHT have gone UGA's way if Arch HAD come to Georgia. His noteriety makes him less of an individual play, and more of a reputation-setter for the offensive side of the ball. I haven't had a chance to research, but I'm guessing that UT (the Austin one) will benefit from his and the Manning family's reputational draw 🤔

  • MikeGriffithMikeGriffith Posts: 3,661 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @Kudzu There would have been gains at other positions, to be sure, but UGA ranks ahead of Texas in recruiting, and Kirby still has time to recover with a 2024 QB or maybe a late 2023 signee or even transfer

  • E_RocE_Roc Posts: 1,212 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited August 2022

    My interpretation is that, as others have mentioned, we're pretty well set at the quarterback position for the next few years as it is. It's never a bad thing to have a QBin every class, but we really didn't need one this cycle. So, might as well go all out to see if you can get the #1 (rated) guy in the nation. If you get him, great. Other recruits will surely follow, and who knows, maybe he actually will be that good. And if you don't get him, then you've left the quarterback position some room to breathe for the next year or two before you go after the next highly rated guy. There's really no down side, even if the coaches didn't think he was all that he's been cracked up to be. (Not sure if they did or didn't see it that way, just saying the meer fact that Georgia went after him isn't necessarily proof that he must be that good.)

  • HenddawgHenddawg Posts: 715 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    I wonder how much of it, if any, was predicated on the quality at the QB position in the room at UGA. I can’t imagine a Manning hitting the portal, but UGA has some quality with plenty of time left. I believe Manning was the real deal based on how much emphasis teams put on him, but I also believe he wants a cleaner path to the top job than UGA might have shown. Ewers is there but that is only 1 at that level and UGA has 2-3 (I’m sure there will be someone in the portal after the next starter is named), so it seems like a clearer path anyway. Kirby has shown he will go with who he feels gives the team the best chance to win now and that means future benefit may be less of a consideration. 2024 cycle will be critical and I’m not concerned at all about UGA’s ability to secure top-notch QB talent.

    great article and really love the perspective of Cutcliffe. If you get any more time, maybe ask him about the QB room having an impact.

  • ShoottheHoochShoottheHooch Posts: 1,605 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    There was another QB UGA went all in on and got. This QB was also near the top of all recruiting boards. As a high schooler he was not only projected as a generational program changer, he was already being projected as the number one NFL pick. Like Arch, his high school competition made him Gulliver playing against Lilliputians. Jacob Eason.

    Would Texas coming to the SEC in ‘25 really matter? By the time that happens, Arch will be playing his final year in college if his talents and the Manning name put him at the top of the draft boards.

  • BEACHDAWGBEACHDAWG Posts: 3,204 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    It's all about that Red and Black! The family made the kid wear the tan hat! Nobody likes that hat much on our side. Fishing, golf maybe? That uniform photo op must've had his Uncles in the potty for an hour. Texas, much like the gaters, is a fallen brand. Arch might bring them back. Good luck to him.

  • MontanaDawgMontanaDawg Posts: 1,821 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited August 2022

    We shouldn't worry about Manning. We don't need him IF Kirby and company know how to develop QBs who are already very good - and surround them with a pass oriented offense with a great O line. I never thought I'd say it, but Saban has mastered that style now. A strong armed confident QB paired with excellent receivers and a strong group of punishing RBs who can catch. No team does it better than Bama.

    WRs is where we struggle...at least in the past. We haven't been able to recruit AND KEEP 4 & 5 star WRs. Why? We don't throw enough. That hasn't been our MO. Monken will probably need to develop and maintain a more aggressive passing attack this year than last year. We can't rest on the laurels of a stellar defense (although the defense should be one of the best).

    Like has already been stated, if I was Manning I wouldn't have chosen UGA. Texas makes sense to me - especially with a Sarkesian pass happy offense.

  • BrooksieBrooksie Posts: 427 ✭✭✭✭ Senior

    Kirby seems to be a little “star” struck as he loves collecting top talent regardless of need. A 5* QB should be an every other year goal. As for as throwing more? You really don’t have to sling it deep when you have a 30 point lead in the middle of the 3rd quarter.

  • David1David1 Posts: 683 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    So basically he turned down the team that just won a NC and with as high a ceiling as any program in the country for a team possibly going in the other direction because his family went to rival schools? Ha! That’s a joke. I believe it’s because Kirby wouldn’t promise him that he would start as a freshman.

  • pepinpepin Posts: 52 ✭✭ Sophomore

    This article is doing its level best to leave out the actual reason. Sarkisian has recruited and developed #1 draft pick QBs at 3 schools: USC (twice), Washington and Alabama. By contrast Kirby Smart has recruited and developed #1 draft picks or successful NFL at QB at no schools and was been bent on proving that you don't need a big time QB to win a title in the first place.

    Alabama's run of #1 pick QBs - Tua, Jones, now Young - began two years after CKS departed Tuscaloosa.

    In Athens, Jacob Eason left after 2 seasons, starting 1, and was a 4th round pick.

    JT Daniels left after 2 seasons and starting half a dozen games. He has 2 years left (redshirt and pandemic year) at West Virginia.

    Justin Fields - likely the only one to ultimately become a high NFL pick - left after 1 season of no real playing time.

    Jake Fromm: 3 year starter was a 5th round pick and was out of the NFL after being released twice in 2 seasons.

    SB IV: 2 year starter who will not get drafted.

    As for "UGA won the national title" ... I will give you a selective list of national title-winning QBs. National titles don't mean squat in the NFL. They don't get you drafted in the first round. They certainly don't set you up for a 10 year career as a starter. For aspiring NFL QBs national titles are utterly meaningless. The best QB of the current era - Pat Mahomes - went 12-13 in college and #2 - Josh Allen - played at an FCS school. The most decorated QB in history - Tom Brady - never even won the Big 10. Thinking that Manning was going to come to UGA because they won the 2021 national title was ridiculous. Also, suppose Alabama, Ohio State or Clemson wins the 2022 national title. Why not go to that school instead?

    Chris Leak: never played a down in the NFL.

    Matt Mauck: brief career as NFL backup

    Matt Flynn: longtime NFL backup

    Greg McElroy: 1 NFL start, out of the league after 3 years

    AJ McCarron: TWO national titles led to his being a 5th round pick and starting 4 NFL games over 8 years.

    Cardale Jones (and Craig Krenzel): 4th round pick, 4 year NFL career, now on a CFL practice squad

    Jacob Coker: was never even offered so much as an undrafted free agent contract

    SV IV: will be the next on this list.

  • BigDawg61BigDawg61 Posts: 2,355 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    With regard to throwing the ball more....I absolutely agree. There's no need to throw the ball, if you can "WIN" by keeping it on the ground. As an old Coach used to say, "3 things can happen when you throw the ball and 2 of them are bad".

    Seems a lot of Fans lose sight of the purpose of an offense and the value of winning. UGA only lost 5 games in 3 years and 2 of those were SECC games. I'd say Kirby & company are doing just fine. They DO NOT NEED to "pass more" to WIN.

    And, for the record, Saban hasn't "mastered" anything on offense. He brought in OC's that already had a "mastery" of the offensive side of the ball...Kiffin, Sarkesian and O'Brian. 3 of the best offensive minds in the Country. LOL

    Kirby "mastered" the offensive side of the ball by bringing in Todd Monkin, and then...won a Natty. If Mark Richt could've found a great DC, he would've "mastered" the defensive side of the ball and won a few Natty's.

    LSU and BAMA won the "big one", on high powered offenses with very good defenses. UGA won the "big one" on a high powered defense with a very good offense. I don't care what the victory looks like, as long as it goes in the "win column". One guy (Arch Manning) isn't going to have that big of an impact. But, one guy (Bennett, Burrows, Jones, Young, Mayfield, etc.) with all of the "right tools" around him in the correct offense, can be devastating. LOL

    Running the ball and playing tough defense, may seem boring, but, there's beauty in it, if you understand the game. I don't care much for basketball scores mixed into my football. That's not how the game was meant to be played. I believe defenses have caught up to the high powered passing games. It all works in cycles, with rule changes and the like.

    Bottom line is, UGA and Kirby are right where they need to be. Enjoy.

  • pepinpepin Posts: 52 ✭✭ Sophomore

    The claim that UGA is set at the QB position is a flat out falsehood. The depth chart:

    SB IV (RS SR)

    Carson Beck (RS SO)

    Brock Vandagriff (RS FR)

    Gunner Stockton (FR)

    4 guys right? Sure, but by the end of spring practice 2023 that drops to 2 guys. SB IV will either go the media route and become a multi-millionaire (SEC Network at minimum) or become a grad assistant. And whoever loses the Beck/Vandagriff battle will hit the portal. Why? Because if Vandagriff wins it is obvious: Beck will never get to play unless Vandagriff fails or gets seriously injured (neither of which Beck is going to root for). Even if Beck it means that Vandagriff - who has already redshirted and is ineligible for the 2020 pandemic year because he arrived in 2021 - would only get 1 year to start. The reason is that Beck would need a nuts 2023 season to be a 1st round pick in 2024. Even there, Stockton may well beat out Vandagriff by then. Even if it is close, CKS would justifiably pick 2 years of Stockton over 1 year of both.

    As for a portal or grad transfer QB ... no one but practice depth seeking a free education is going to come to sit on the bench behind Beck for 2 years. No way around this: it was a huge screwup because CKS really did think that he could land Manning. He didn't realize that he only landed Eason because Eason chose to honor his commitment to UGA made under Richt - a mistake as Eason should have followed Richt to Miami and been in a better situation with better coaching than he got at UGA/Washington - and he only landed the other 5 star QBs because they were in-state guys.

    The best option at this point is to swallow their pride and either sign a JUCO QB or raid a G5 school or lower profile P5 school for a 3 star recruit. But claiming "our QB room is great!" when knowing full well that said QB room will have only 2 guys in it after spring 2023 is flat out false, and the sports media around here needs to do their job by pointing that out.

  • ColumbusDawgColumbusDawg Posts: 519 ✭✭✭✭ Senior

    Yep. Yawn. UGA is set at the QB for 3-4 years. You act like no more will be coming hater. You havin' fun coming on here stirring the pot? UGA National Champs. We win. You lost. Again. 😛

  • ColumbusDawgColumbusDawg Posts: 519 ✭✭✭✭ Senior

    Kirby has got this. Sheeesh. Take some chill pills to all those freakin' out over nothing. We got like the best QB room in the nation. Just enjoy this year. The next 5 years will take care of themself and they will be AWESOME. SMH. Enjoy the awesome ride.

  • BigDawg61BigDawg61 Posts: 2,355 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    LOL..."Pepin" sounds panicked. All over the place, in his thoughts. Desperate to poke holes and pathetically unsuccessful in his/her attempts. I know he's not a Dawg Fan, but, I'm not completely sure he's a Tide Fan, either. Might be a Gator or War Eagle Fan, in which case, I don't blame him. I'd go to a website where people know how to discuss football and actually have something to discuss, because their team has a future...."Dawg Nation". LMAO

    The 2023 QB situation will be resolved. Not worried about it in 2022. With the portal and current recruiting chaos, literally "anything" can happen between now and the Fall of 2023. Including Manning flipping back to UGA if Ewers takes off this year and plays to his potential.

    The QB "musical-chair" scramble will begin at the end of April next year. When the music stops, there's no telling who will be sitting in the Head QB Chair at UGA to begin the 2023 season. That's not really going to be the issue. The issue will be...the capability and experience of the backup QB.

    Recruiting and roster management, as you once knew it (last year, LOL), is over. A thing of the past. It's great to get a bunch of big time QB's in your QB room, but, keeping a quality 2nd teamer, going into the season, is the challenge going forward, for every team...BAMA, UGA, OSU...even Texas.

    Miami Hurricanes once had Vinny Testaverde, Jim Kelly, Bernie Kosar and Mark Richt, in the same QB room, back in 1982. Something like that, will NEVER happen again.

    For a "fan" to be concerned about the QB room in 2023 or 2024, today....is getting way out over your skis. I'm sure the Coaches are looking at it and planning for it as best they can, but, there will undoubtedly be many new and unforeseeable developments...and available QBs...between now and then. You can bet...UGA will get theirs. That's just my opinion.

  • WCHWCH Posts: 472 ✭✭✭✭ Senior

    I've said it before, the Mannings and Kirby Smart were not a good mix. Arch was never coming to Georgia!

  • reddawg1reddawg1 Posts: 3,555 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    I just never saw Arch as a guy who wanted to just hand the ball off in the 4th quarter. Never had my hopes up.

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