I know this is off topic, but i just want to spark some friendly debate while we wait for this board to pick up during the season
@WCDawg said: @donm said: @WCDawg said: @pgjackson said: @PeachCoDawg said: If you really understand basketball, and take everything in to account and are old enough to at least be comparing 80s-now changes in personnel, rules changes, etc I don't even see how this could be an argument. Jordan. All day, all night. And not just in basketball. He might be the most dominant pro athlete of all time. Gretzky is right up there as was Montana and Brady is now. I’d put LeBron in this group, but Jordan is at the top. Jordan was great in basketball, he was never even a top amature in any other sport. Otto Graham was great at the highest level in multiple sports. I could list MANY athletes who were superior overall to MJ. Curious as to what ways you see them being superior. Not in measurables such as VJ, speed. and those types of things, right? What was MJ demonstrably or measurably great at other than basketball ? He wasn't a track man, or a football player, he **** as a MINOR LEAGUE baseball player.
@WCDawg said:
@donm said: @WCDawg said: @pgjackson said: @PeachCoDawg said: If you really understand basketball, and take everything in to account and are old enough to at least be comparing 80s-now changes in personnel, rules changes, etc I don't even see how this could be an argument. Jordan. All day, all night. And not just in basketball. He might be the most dominant pro athlete of all time. Gretzky is right up there as was Montana and Brady is now. I’d put LeBron in this group, but Jordan is at the top. Jordan was great in basketball, he was never even a top amature in any other sport. Otto Graham was great at the highest level in multiple sports. I could list MANY athletes who were superior overall to MJ. Curious as to what ways you see them being superior. Not in measurables such as VJ, speed. and those types of things, right?
@donm said:
@WCDawg said: @pgjackson said: @PeachCoDawg said: If you really understand basketball, and take everything in to account and are old enough to at least be comparing 80s-now changes in personnel, rules changes, etc I don't even see how this could be an argument. Jordan. All day, all night. And not just in basketball. He might be the most dominant pro athlete of all time. Gretzky is right up there as was Montana and Brady is now. I’d put LeBron in this group, but Jordan is at the top. Jordan was great in basketball, he was never even a top amature in any other sport. Otto Graham was great at the highest level in multiple sports. I could list MANY athletes who were superior overall to MJ.
@pgjackson said: @PeachCoDawg said: If you really understand basketball, and take everything in to account and are old enough to at least be comparing 80s-now changes in personnel, rules changes, etc I don't even see how this could be an argument. Jordan. All day, all night. And not just in basketball. He might be the most dominant pro athlete of all time. Gretzky is right up there as was Montana and Brady is now. I’d put LeBron in this group, but Jordan is at the top.
@pgjackson said:
@PeachCoDawg said: If you really understand basketball, and take everything in to account and are old enough to at least be comparing 80s-now changes in personnel, rules changes, etc I don't even see how this could be an argument. Jordan. All day, all night.
And not just in basketball. He might be the most dominant pro athlete of all time. Gretzky is right up there as was Montana and Brady is now. I’d put LeBron in this group, but Jordan is at the top.
Jordan was great in basketball, he was never even a top amature in any other sport. Otto Graham was great at the highest level in multiple sports. I could list MANY athletes who were superior overall to MJ.
Curious as to what ways you see them being superior. Not in measurables such as VJ, speed. and those types of things, right?
What was MJ demonstrably or measurably great at other than basketball ? He wasn't a track man, or a football player, he **** as a MINOR LEAGUE baseball player.
Thanks for the clarification.
@WCDawg said: @Dawgy_Fresh said: @SoFL_Dawg said: @judasdurant said: @pgjackson said: @judasdurant said: @pgjackson said: Here are the guys Jordan played against in the 80s and 90s Magic Bird Barkley Hakeem Dominique I. Thomas Malone Kareem McHale Laimbeer Shaq Robinson Ewing Kemp Mullen Mutombo Drexler Stockton Pippen Olajuwon There is nothing like that the last 10 years in the NBA. The late 80’s to early 90’s were the heyday of the NBA. I counter with Durant Duncan Iverson Tmac AD Curry Giannis Kobe Shaq Dwight Dwade Garnett Harden Westbrook Cp3 Draymond green Klay Thompson Paul George Melo Derrick Rose Paul pierce Jason kid Steve Nash Dirk Gimme the bottom list over the top Seriously? Don't even know who half those guys are. The guys I listed from the 80's and 90's practically defined the sport. Those are guys even people who never saw them play know who they are. I didn't even have to list a full name. You know who they are by one name. And how tough is the NBA now that kids are coming right out of HS or only one year of college and starting? You just came in with a list that included Kevin Mchale and are saying that the NBA players i posted are irrelevant. I didn’t have to put a full name for any of those players, i just did it for a couple. And straight to the pros from high school has been happening since Moses Malone in 1974 Butting in here but Mchale is considered a top 5 PF in history of the game by other players. Barkley considers him the best for example. I would say Duncan, K. Malone, M. Malone, Mchale, Barkley in that order. I think Michael is a top 10 PF but I’d put KG, Dirk, Elgin Baylor and Hayes over Mchale. McHale was unguardable in the low post, but he was not a ball handler or shooter.
@Dawgy_Fresh said: @SoFL_Dawg said: @judasdurant said: @pgjackson said: @judasdurant said: @pgjackson said: Here are the guys Jordan played against in the 80s and 90s Magic Bird Barkley Hakeem Dominique I. Thomas Malone Kareem McHale Laimbeer Shaq Robinson Ewing Kemp Mullen Mutombo Drexler Stockton Pippen Olajuwon There is nothing like that the last 10 years in the NBA. The late 80’s to early 90’s were the heyday of the NBA. I counter with Durant Duncan Iverson Tmac AD Curry Giannis Kobe Shaq Dwight Dwade Garnett Harden Westbrook Cp3 Draymond green Klay Thompson Paul George Melo Derrick Rose Paul pierce Jason kid Steve Nash Dirk Gimme the bottom list over the top Seriously? Don't even know who half those guys are. The guys I listed from the 80's and 90's practically defined the sport. Those are guys even people who never saw them play know who they are. I didn't even have to list a full name. You know who they are by one name. And how tough is the NBA now that kids are coming right out of HS or only one year of college and starting? You just came in with a list that included Kevin Mchale and are saying that the NBA players i posted are irrelevant. I didn’t have to put a full name for any of those players, i just did it for a couple. And straight to the pros from high school has been happening since Moses Malone in 1974 Butting in here but Mchale is considered a top 5 PF in history of the game by other players. Barkley considers him the best for example. I would say Duncan, K. Malone, M. Malone, Mchale, Barkley in that order. I think Michael is a top 10 PF but I’d put KG, Dirk, Elgin Baylor and Hayes over Mchale.
@Dawgy_Fresh said:
@SoFL_Dawg said: @judasdurant said: @pgjackson said: @judasdurant said: @pgjackson said: Here are the guys Jordan played against in the 80s and 90s Magic Bird Barkley Hakeem Dominique I. Thomas Malone Kareem McHale Laimbeer Shaq Robinson Ewing Kemp Mullen Mutombo Drexler Stockton Pippen Olajuwon There is nothing like that the last 10 years in the NBA. The late 80’s to early 90’s were the heyday of the NBA. I counter with Durant Duncan Iverson Tmac AD Curry Giannis Kobe Shaq Dwight Dwade Garnett Harden Westbrook Cp3 Draymond green Klay Thompson Paul George Melo Derrick Rose Paul pierce Jason kid Steve Nash Dirk Gimme the bottom list over the top Seriously? Don't even know who half those guys are. The guys I listed from the 80's and 90's practically defined the sport. Those are guys even people who never saw them play know who they are. I didn't even have to list a full name. You know who they are by one name. And how tough is the NBA now that kids are coming right out of HS or only one year of college and starting? You just came in with a list that included Kevin Mchale and are saying that the NBA players i posted are irrelevant. I didn’t have to put a full name for any of those players, i just did it for a couple. And straight to the pros from high school has been happening since Moses Malone in 1974 Butting in here but Mchale is considered a top 5 PF in history of the game by other players. Barkley considers him the best for example. I would say Duncan, K. Malone, M. Malone, Mchale, Barkley in that order.
@SoFL_Dawg said:
@judasdurant said: @pgjackson said: @judasdurant said: @pgjackson said: Here are the guys Jordan played against in the 80s and 90s Magic Bird Barkley Hakeem Dominique I. Thomas Malone Kareem McHale Laimbeer Shaq Robinson Ewing Kemp Mullen Mutombo Drexler Stockton Pippen Olajuwon There is nothing like that the last 10 years in the NBA. The late 80’s to early 90’s were the heyday of the NBA. I counter with Durant Duncan Iverson Tmac AD Curry Giannis Kobe Shaq Dwight Dwade Garnett Harden Westbrook Cp3 Draymond green Klay Thompson Paul George Melo Derrick Rose Paul pierce Jason kid Steve Nash Dirk Gimme the bottom list over the top Seriously? Don't even know who half those guys are. The guys I listed from the 80's and 90's practically defined the sport. Those are guys even people who never saw them play know who they are. I didn't even have to list a full name. You know who they are by one name. And how tough is the NBA now that kids are coming right out of HS or only one year of college and starting? You just came in with a list that included Kevin Mchale and are saying that the NBA players i posted are irrelevant. I didn’t have to put a full name for any of those players, i just did it for a couple. And straight to the pros from high school has been happening since Moses Malone in 1974
@judasdurant said:
@pgjackson said: @judasdurant said: @pgjackson said: Here are the guys Jordan played against in the 80s and 90s Magic Bird Barkley Hakeem Dominique I. Thomas Malone Kareem McHale Laimbeer Shaq Robinson Ewing Kemp Mullen Mutombo Drexler Stockton Pippen Olajuwon There is nothing like that the last 10 years in the NBA. The late 80’s to early 90’s were the heyday of the NBA. I counter with Durant Duncan Iverson Tmac AD Curry Giannis Kobe Shaq Dwight Dwade Garnett Harden Westbrook Cp3 Draymond green Klay Thompson Paul George Melo Derrick Rose Paul pierce Jason kid Steve Nash Dirk Gimme the bottom list over the top Seriously? Don't even know who half those guys are. The guys I listed from the 80's and 90's practically defined the sport. Those are guys even people who never saw them play know who they are. I didn't even have to list a full name. You know who they are by one name. And how tough is the NBA now that kids are coming right out of HS or only one year of college and starting?
@judasdurant said: @pgjackson said: Here are the guys Jordan played against in the 80s and 90s Magic Bird Barkley Hakeem Dominique I. Thomas Malone Kareem McHale Laimbeer Shaq Robinson Ewing Kemp Mullen Mutombo Drexler Stockton Pippen Olajuwon There is nothing like that the last 10 years in the NBA. The late 80’s to early 90’s were the heyday of the NBA. I counter with Durant Duncan Iverson Tmac AD Curry Giannis Kobe Shaq Dwight Dwade Garnett Harden Westbrook Cp3 Draymond green Klay Thompson Paul George Melo Derrick Rose Paul pierce Jason kid Steve Nash Dirk Gimme the bottom list over the top
@pgjackson said: Here are the guys Jordan played against in the 80s and 90s Magic Bird Barkley Hakeem Dominique I. Thomas Malone Kareem McHale Laimbeer Shaq Robinson Ewing Kemp Mullen Mutombo Drexler Stockton Pippen Olajuwon There is nothing like that the last 10 years in the NBA. The late 80’s to early 90’s were the heyday of the NBA.
@pgjackson said: Here are the guys Jordan played against in the 80s and 90s
Magic Bird Barkley Hakeem Dominique I. Thomas Malone Kareem McHale Laimbeer Shaq Robinson Ewing Kemp Mullen Mutombo Drexler Stockton Pippen Olajuwon
There is nothing like that the last 10 years in the NBA. The late 80’s to early 90’s were the heyday of the NBA.
I counter with Durant Duncan Iverson Tmac AD Curry Giannis Kobe Shaq Dwight Dwade Garnett Harden Westbrook Cp3 Draymond green Klay Thompson Paul George Melo Derrick Rose Paul pierce Jason kid Steve Nash Dirk
Gimme the bottom list over the top
Seriously? Don't even know who half those guys are. The guys I listed from the 80's and 90's practically defined the sport. Those are guys even people who never saw them play know who they are. I didn't even have to list a full name. You know who they are by one name.
And how tough is the NBA now that kids are coming right out of HS or only one year of college and starting?
You just came in with a list that included Kevin Mchale and are saying that the NBA players i posted are irrelevant. I didn’t have to put a full name for any of those players, i just did it for a couple. And straight to the pros from high school has been happening since Moses Malone in 1974
Butting in here but Mchale is considered a top 5 PF in history of the game by other players. Barkley considers him the best for example.
I would say Duncan, K. Malone, M. Malone, Mchale, Barkley in that order.
I think Michael is a top 10 PF but I’d put KG, Dirk, Elgin Baylor and Hayes over Mchale.
McHale was unguardable in the low post, but he was not a ball handler or shooter.
Mchale would be unplayable in 2018
Larry Bird. Could do it all. Coach on the court, too.
@JRT812 said: Pistol
I am surprised no else mentioned Maravich.
Kobe aka Black Mamba! Rings and just the killer instinct alone sets him in a class with Jordan but if I’m taking one of the 2 I’m taking Kobe. He would have easily had another ring if it wasn’t for the injuries.
@Reeldawg said: @JRT812 said: Pistol I am surprised no else mentioned Maravich.
@Reeldawg said:
Thank you Reeldawg bro! He never gets mentioned in these types of conversations. Dude was one of the guys who changed the game.
How do youbleave Larry Bird off that list?
@pgjackson said: @WCDawg said: @pgjackson said: @PeachCoDawg said: If you really understand basketball, and take everything in to account and are old enough to at least be comparing 80s-now changes in personnel, rules changes, etc I don't even see how this could be an argument. Jordan. All day, all night. And not just in basketball. He might be the most dominant pro athlete of all time. Gretzky is right up there as was Montana and Brady is now. I’d put LeBron in this group, but Jordan is at the top. Jordan was great in basketball, he was never even a top amature in any other sport. Otto Graham was great at the highest level in multiple sports. I could list MANY athletes who were superior overall to MJ. I'm talking pro sports. Please don't start listing Michael Phelps or wrestler Alexander Karelin or some other Olympian with tons of gold medals. I'm talking major pro sports (football, basketball, baseball, tennis, hockey, golf...) Nobody dominated their sport the way MJ dominated the NBA.
I'm talking pro sports. Please don't start listing Michael Phelps or wrestler Alexander Karelin or some other Olympian with tons of gold medals. I'm talking major pro sports (football, basketball, baseball, tennis, hockey, golf...) Nobody dominated their sport the way MJ dominated the NBA.
Jordan was really a one sport athlete compared to the truly versatile greats like Graham, Bo and Deon Sanders.
@BamaDawg said: How do youbleave Larry Bird off that list?
Bird is the #2 PF all time behind only Lebron.
@judasdurant said: @WCDawg said: @Dawgy_Fresh said: @SoFL_Dawg said: @judasdurant said: @pgjackson said: @judasdurant said: @pgjackson said: Here are the guys Jordan played against in the 80s and 90s Magic Bird Barkley Hakeem Dominique I. Thomas Malone Kareem McHale Laimbeer Shaq Robinson Ewing Kemp Mullen Mutombo Drexler Stockton Pippen Olajuwon There is nothing like that the last 10 years in the NBA. The late 80’s to early 90’s were the heyday of the NBA. I counter with Durant Duncan Iverson Tmac AD Curry Giannis Kobe Shaq Dwight Dwade Garnett Harden Westbrook Cp3 Draymond green Klay Thompson Paul George Melo Derrick Rose Paul pierce Jason kid Steve Nash Dirk Gimme the bottom list over the top Seriously? Don't even know who half those guys are. The guys I listed from the 80's and 90's practically defined the sport. Those are guys even people who never saw them play know who they are. I didn't even have to list a full name. You know who they are by one name. And how tough is the NBA now that kids are coming right out of HS or only one year of college and starting? You just came in with a list that included Kevin Mchale and are saying that the NBA players i posted are irrelevant. I didn’t have to put a full name for any of those players, i just did it for a couple. And straight to the pros from high school has been happening since Moses Malone in 1974 Butting in here but Mchale is considered a top 5 PF in history of the game by other players. Barkley considers him the best for example. I would say Duncan, K. Malone, M. Malone, Mchale, Barkley in that order. I think Michael is a top 10 PF but I’d put KG, Dirk, Elgin Baylor and Hayes over Mchale. McHale was unguardable in the low post, but he was not a ball handler or shooter. Mchale would be unplayable in 2018
He would be unguardable in any era, that will get you playing time. While his strengths wouldn't be ideal for the motion offenses like GS runs. Those Celtics teams were the standard for a full court integrated passing and shooting offense.
@WCDawg said: @pgjackson said: @WCDawg said: @pgjackson said: @PeachCoDawg said: If you really understand basketball, and take everything in to account and are old enough to at least be comparing 80s-now changes in personnel, rules changes, etc I don't even see how this could be an argument. Jordan. All day, all night. And not just in basketball. He might be the most dominant pro athlete of all time. Gretzky is right up there as was Montana and Brady is now. I’d put LeBron in this group, but Jordan is at the top. Jordan was great in basketball, he was never even a top amature in any other sport. Otto Graham was great at the highest level in multiple sports. I could list MANY athletes who were superior overall to MJ. I'm talking pro sports. Please don't start listing Michael Phelps or wrestler Alexander Karelin or some other Olympian with tons of gold medals. I'm talking major pro sports (football, basketball, baseball, tennis, hockey, golf...) Nobody dominated their sport the way MJ dominated the NBA. Jordan was really a one sport athlete compared to the truly versatile greats like Graham, Bo and Deon Sanders.
You like to argue. I didn’t say he was the greatest multi-sport athlete. I said he dominated his professional sport unlike anyone else. Nobody has ever said “Bo Jackson or Deion Sanders was the greatest football player ever”. They were great multi-sport athletes, but they are on nobody’s All-Time Greatest list for baseball or football.
@pgjackson said: @WCDawg said: @pgjackson said: @WCDawg said: @pgjackson said: @PeachCoDawg said: If you really understand basketball, and take everything in to account and are old enough to at least be comparing 80s-now changes in personnel, rules changes, etc I don't even see how this could be an argument. Jordan. All day, all night. And not just in basketball. He might be the most dominant pro athlete of all time. Gretzky is right up there as was Montana and Brady is now. I’d put LeBron in this group, but Jordan is at the top. Jordan was great in basketball, he was never even a top amature in any other sport. Otto Graham was great at the highest level in multiple sports. I could list MANY athletes who were superior overall to MJ. I'm talking pro sports. Please don't start listing Michael Phelps or wrestler Alexander Karelin or some other Olympian with tons of gold medals. I'm talking major pro sports (football, basketball, baseball, tennis, hockey, golf...) Nobody dominated their sport the way MJ dominated the NBA. Jordan was really a one sport athlete compared to the truly versatile greats like Graham, Bo and Deon Sanders. You like to argue. I didn’t say he was the greatest multi-sport athlete. I said he dominated his professional sport unlike anyone else. Nobody has ever said “Bo Jackson or Deion Sanders was the greatest football player ever”. They were great multi-sport athletes, but they are on nobody’s All-Time Greatest list for baseball or football.
Prime TIme is often mentioned amongst the greatest CB's, I think. Bo's career was too short for him to be elevated to legend status. He is, though, one of the best all around athletes ever, in my experience.
Whether you're one of them or not I won't bother checking, but the claim has been made that Jordan is basically superior at other sports than basketball, he is not and never was. Sanders, Otto Graham, Elway, Ainge and MANY others were better at second sports than MJ was.
Meadowlark Lemon
@WCDawg said: @pgjackson said: @WCDawg said: @pgjackson said: @WCDawg said: @pgjackson said: @PeachCoDawg said: If you really understand basketball, and take everything in to account and are old enough to at least be comparing 80s-now changes in personnel, rules changes, etc I don't even see how this could be an argument. Jordan. All day, all night. And not just in basketball. He might be the most dominant pro athlete of all time. Gretzky is right up there as was Montana and Brady is now. I’d put LeBron in this group, but Jordan is at the top. Jordan was great in basketball, he was never even a top amature in any other sport. Otto Graham was great at the highest level in multiple sports. I could list MANY athletes who were superior overall to MJ. I'm talking pro sports. Please don't start listing Michael Phelps or wrestler Alexander Karelin or some other Olympian with tons of gold medals. I'm talking major pro sports (football, basketball, baseball, tennis, hockey, golf...) Nobody dominated their sport the way MJ dominated the NBA. Jordan was really a one sport athlete compared to the truly versatile greats like Graham, Bo and Deon Sanders. You like to argue. I didn’t say he was the greatest multi-sport athlete. I said he dominated his professional sport unlike anyone else. Nobody has ever said “Bo Jackson or Deion Sanders was the greatest football player ever”. They were great multi-sport athletes, but they are on nobody’s All-Time Greatest list for baseball or football. Whether you're one of them or not I won't bother checking, but the claim has been made that Jordan is basically superior at other sports than basketball, he is not and never was. Sanders, Otto Graham, Elway, Ainge and MANY others were better at second sports than MJ was.
Hard to argue with that. Uncle Charlie/slider proved to be MJ's downfall in baseball.
