Ronald Acuna is on pace to join 2 Braves among the 5 youngest to hit 100 HRs....

WCDawg

@kelly_b said:

@WCDawg said:

@kelly_b said:
@donm I couldn't agree more. The pen has been atrocious this year and cost us a lot of games. And the point about Swanson is well-taken. Camargo could move to short w/ no problem and the hole at 3rd could be filled relatively easily.

But here's a question. With the way pitching staffs are built these days, if you had to choose between an ace at the front end or a shut-down closer, which would you take?

The relievers have actually held up better than I expected after being overused and being very shaky early in the summer.
I've looked at the 4 other teams that seem playoff bound in The NL, we are very close statistically in both pitching and hitting to The Brewers and The Cardinals, only The Dodgers seem to have a big edge in pitching.
Most of the top Starting pitchers are on teams like The Mets, The Phillies and Washington that will miss the playoffs.

Yeah, you can't discount the overuse of the pen. I really think that the starters these days are babied. Tom Verducci wrote a largely ignored but incredibly insightful piece several years back and showed statistically that starters in past eras who threw more innings remained healthier. I understand teams wanting to protect their investments, but I'm not sure that they're going about it the right way. I'll see if I can't find that article.

I think a big issue with durability of starters is managers want them all to throw in the high 90s through out games. that is not a formula made to go 9 innings.
It's also a big reason we may never see another 300 game winner. Tom Glavine was 42 before he went on the DL his first time. Maddux spent a total of 15 days on the DL his entire career, that was the minimum number of days allowed then.

kelly_b

@WCDawg said:

@kelly_b said:

@WCDawg said:

@kelly_b said:
@donm I couldn't agree more. The pen has been atrocious this year and cost us a lot of games. And the point about Swanson is well-taken. Camargo could move to short w/ no problem and the hole at 3rd could be filled relatively easily.

But here's a question. With the way pitching staffs are built these days, if you had to choose between an ace at the front end or a shut-down closer, which would you take?

The relievers have actually held up better than I expected after being overused and being very shaky early in the summer.
I've looked at the 4 other teams that seem playoff bound in The NL, we are very close statistically in both pitching and hitting to The Brewers and The Cardinals, only The Dodgers seem to have a big edge in pitching.
Most of the top Starting pitchers are on teams like The Mets, The Phillies and Washington that will miss the playoffs.

Yeah, you can't discount the overuse of the pen. I really think that the starters these days are babied. Tom Verducci wrote a largely ignored but incredibly insightful piece several years back and showed statistically that starters in past eras who threw more innings remained healthier. I understand teams wanting to protect their investments, but I'm not sure that they're going about it the right way. I'll see if I can't find that article.

I think a big issue with durability of starters is managers want them all to throw in the high 90s through out games. that is not a formula made to go 9 innings.
It's also a big reason we may never see another 300 game winner. Tom Glavine was 42 before he went on the DL his first time. Maddux spent a total of 15 days on the DL his entire career, that was the minimum number of days allowed then.

Yeah, you're right, and I'm not saying the art of pitching is gone, but will there ever be another like Mad Dog? Threw in the upper 80's in the steroid era w/ a minimal ERA. I'd like to see that return. I like pitchers with brains.

donm

@WCDawg said:

@kelly_b said:

@WCDawg said:

@kelly_b said:
@donm I couldn't agree more. The pen has been atrocious this year and cost us a lot of games. And the point about Swanson is well-taken. Camargo could move to short w/ no problem and the hole at 3rd could be filled relatively easily.

But here's a question. With the way pitching staffs are built these days, if you had to choose between an ace at the front end or a shut-down closer, which would you take?

The relievers have actually held up better than I expected after being overused and being very shaky early in the summer.
I've looked at the 4 other teams that seem playoff bound in The NL, we are very close statistically in both pitching and hitting to The Brewers and The Cardinals, only The Dodgers seem to have a big edge in pitching.
Most of the top Starting pitchers are on teams like The Mets, The Phillies and Washington that will miss the playoffs.

Yeah, you can't discount the overuse of the pen. I really think that the starters these days are babied. Tom Verducci wrote a largely ignored but incredibly insightful piece several years back and showed statistically that starters in past eras who threw more innings remained healthier. I understand teams wanting to protect their investments, but I'm not sure that they're going about it the right way. I'll see if I can't find that article.

I think a big issue with durability of starters is managers want them all to throw in the high 90s through out games. that is not a formula made to go 9 innings.
It's also a big reason we may never see another 300 game winner. Tom Glavine was 42 before he went on the DL his first time. Maddux spent a total of 15 days on the DL his entire career, that was the minimum number of days allowed then.

We will be lucky to see many 200 game winners in the next few years (other than older guys who are already getting near there) imo