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Herschel reaches out to Atlanta mayor ...

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Comments

  • YaleDawgYaleDawg Posts: 3,185 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Because he routinely makes divisive comments, so when he says "I hope we can come together too" while making no effort to come together, it comes across as incredibly disingenuous.

  • Casanova_FlatulenceCasanova_Flatulence Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    For the same reason Terry Crews has been vilified on Twitter for his recent comments. That and I'm not one of the more popular posters here! LOL.

  • Casanova_FlatulenceCasanova_Flatulence Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    You may think they're divisive, but that's because you're not real swift on the uptake.

  • YaleDawgYaleDawg Posts: 3,185 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Can you justify any of your positions without saying anyone who disagrees with you is st.upid or biased?

  • KaseyKasey Posts: 15,975 mod

    Last warning guys

  • bigdawg65bigdawg65 Posts: 161 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    I’ll take a stab at why “we should just come together“ isn’t the answer right now. In a perfect world we would all link hands, sing kumbaya, and listen to and respect each other. But the issues that have caused this turmoil (police brutality and over incarceration of POC) have existed for a long time, people have spoken out about them before, sometimes politicians pay lip service to the ideas and sometimes they don’t even bother with that. But to me and many other people “let’s come together now” sounds a whole lot like let’s slap another band aid on this infection and go back to normal. Don’t have a problem with Herschel trying to be a part of the solution I actually really appreciate that but I think a real solution is going to make a lot of people uncomfortable

  • Raiderbeater1Raiderbeater1 Posts: 3,281 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
  • KaseyKasey Posts: 15,975 mod

    Are you kidding? I love when Guy Fieri helps make sausage on triple d!

  • BangersBangers Posts: 124 ✭✭✭ Junior

    I agree all of this talk is cheap. What do you think is the real solution bigdawg? Defunding the police so that they have less resources to protect innocent people from other people who are out to harm them? Or maybe increasing the funding for police so that they have more resources to more effectively do their jobs (as a result reducing the occurrences of police brutality and over incarceration)? Or something else?

  • bigdawg65bigdawg65 Posts: 161 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    I can pm you if this is getting too off topic but yeah absolutely redistribute some funding from police to social services. The rise in police budgets in the past 30-40 years has little to do with making people safer and everything to do with the revenue streams associated with petty drug convictions, both for the police department itself and the city. Redefine the police as someone as someone in your community you trust to help protect you from harm rather than some faceless entity that’s going to stop and frisk and harass you and thousands of others so they can keep getting that federal drug money.

  • Colonels17Colonels17 Posts: 122 ✭✭✭ Junior
    edited July 8

    Well there also been a drastic decrease in crime rates over the last 30-40 years so maybe the increased policing does work. I do believe police training needs to be reformed and police must maintain certain fitness levels, but less police is not the answer. Just look at south side Chicago and St. Louis where the police have pulled back. Also, shootings have increased across the country since the calls of defund the police have started.

  • bigdawg65bigdawg65 Posts: 161 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Good points but violent crime rates decreased during that time frame in every country that banned leaded gasoline. We have 5% of the world’s population and 25% of the world’s prison population. I don’t believe Americans are 5 times more likely to be violent criminals and I think that since budgets are zero sum then maybe having a school counselor or therapist when the potential criminal is 10 could be a lot more valuable than a police officer when they’re 20

  • Colonels17Colonels17 Posts: 122 ✭✭✭ Junior

    I think much of that is fair as well. I would imagine that our increased prison population has more to do with our longer sentencing than most countries. Also hard to compare on a global stance as there are still large portions of the world where the rule of law is not that strong so it’s not exactly comparing apples to apples. We do have a larger prison population than Europe which is a more equal comparison. I totally agree with investing time and money into kids when they are younger and think the police should do infinitely more community outreach programs to foster a relationship on both sides

  • BangersBangers Posts: 124 ✭✭✭ Junior

    I do not think taking funding for police and social services needs to be mutually exclusive. I am also not on board with letting "petty" crimes go unpunished. The penalty should match the crime (which the judge decides), but if someone breaks a law their should be a consequence. If you don't like the law, blame the lawmakers and not the police. My opinion is that the solution to the problem of policy brutality and harassment of POC is to invest more to help the police force combat these things and then create accountability to ensure that funding is being used for that purpose and that they are seeing results. Bad cops should be punished, but taking funding away from them will only make the problem worse. More should be invested in the police. Their are racists whites, blacks, and cops, but it doesn't mean all whites blacks or cops are racist. Im white and I have been harassed by the police one more than one occasion - because some of them are powertripping bullies. But that doesn't make me think all cops are bad (nor do I think all cops are good). But I do think having a police force is good and essential to protect the innocent in our society, and handcuffing them and turning our backs on them is not going to improve anything.

  • pgjacksonpgjackson Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Would you prefer a legal system like China, India, Indonesia, Pakistan or other large population nations? Of the Top 10 most populous nations, the US is the ONLY 1st World nation (Russia is debatable). Add Brazil, Nigeria, Bangladesh, Russia and Mexico to the top 10 list. How do all those countries handle crime? I have a feeling we are headed in that direction. Yes, we have people in prison because we are a nation of laws...unlike most other countries with populations over 100,000,000.

  • pgjacksonpgjackson Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    You know what else that do better in Europe? Enforce borders. They don't have Untold numbers of people flooding across wide open borders over there. You better not get caught without your passport traveling around Europe. People want to compare the US to Europe need to look at all the factors.

  • 706Dawg706Dawg Posts: 424 ✭✭✭✭ Senior
    edited July 9

    You have provided a reasonable argument that I still disagree with but we can agree to disagree.

    The American privatization of our prison systems is the modern form of slavery. It’s intent is to fill its walls with free laborers. The targets are non violent offenders, who simply can’t afford to defend themselves, exclusively for the purposes of doing laborious work around the country. Most often, African American & Latin communities are the target, but low income Caucasian communities are also targeted.

    1. For example, lawmakers passed laws classifying penalties for drug use. Crack cocaine, which is cheap ($10 for a high) is considered a Level 4 drug (4 levels with the harshest penalties being for level 4). Cocaine is a level 2 drug and cost $50 for .5 gram but is only a level 2 drug. Crystal meth is a level 2 drug and also about $20 for a high. Why do you think crack cocaine, primarily used by POC is a level 4 drug while Cocaine and crystal meth, primarily used Caucasians is a level 2 drug? Media says crack cocaine is criminal use, but meth is a disease and a epidemic. Hmmm? Blatant contradiction.
    2. With the privatization of the prison system judges receive kick backs for filling the prisons. True story. Below is a meme floating around just this week as evidence.
    3. Defunding the police is simply a reallocation of resources because it’s a systemic corrupt system in which the police force are puppets. Reroute funding to education (teachers), social services (such as Bridges), and into our community churches. Police are poorly trained, placed in communities that they’ve never interacted with previously, leading to fear and intimidation on both sides, and told to make their arrests to fill the machine. They’re good soldiers, and follow orders well. POC depend on them and fear them at the same time. Imagine if you had to tell your sons to be more fearful of the police because they fear him, even though he’s a child.
    4. Once you’re in front of the judge, especially for non violent offenders, and because the police target so well, a financially destitute individual relies on a public defender to represent them. On avg. a public defender has 200 cases at a time. Those charged don’t have the means for a legit defense and public defenders don’t have the time for a legit defense if you don’t have the money. The avg. net worth for an AA family in 2019 was $17K. For a Caucasian family $171K. It’s because of a lack of home ownership, no collateral for bail. Stuck. Public defenders are there so you have legal representation but their goal is to plea out, move on to the next case as quickly as possible. Can’t blame them, 200 cases at time equals tons of paperwork. It’s all systemic and all broken.
    5. Since the top 2% make the laws, is unlikely this will change. If you can’t treat the disease, you treat the symptoms so you can live with the disease. The most visible symptom of the disease is the over policing of poor communities. That’s why this is a leaderless revolution with the people vs. the police.

    Both public defenders here but I don’t think the punishment fit the crime. Do you? If you have Netflix, check out the 13th. Eye opening for those seeking clarity on how we got here today.

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