Apple has lost 35% of it's market value since Oct 2nd....

a_rattler

@WCDawg said:

@a_rattler said:

@WCDawg said:
Hold on folks, this is getting serious. I'm too old for a slow climb back.

Everyone knew that iPhone sales would slow down as they went from being cultural phenomenons to regular products. Apple staved this off first by introducing larger screens then by boosting Chinese sales to compensate for falling US sales but they finally ran out of tricks. Their attempts to turn India into another China for them failed for regulatory reasons as India's government did not want too much competition for their own domestic smartphone industry, and there are no other big markets for them to expand to.

The iPhone had a great run ... the longest in history for a product that expensive at that volume and scale. But it is finally over. Apple knew this was coming in advance and it is the reason why they have been pivoting to being a services company for some time. Even though they can make as money that way as before that doesn't excite the stockbrokers as much as selling 100 million iPhones a quarter used to.

Apple is just my example though, it's virtually the entire market, from tech to heavy industry to services. It's the stock market, not jobs, etc, those generally lag behind the market.

I understand. It is just that Apple is a terrible example to try to use to illustrate broader trends. If the iPhone was still selling like it was 3 years ago and its stock price was falling you would have a point. As it is this is little different from using the decline of Sears, ToysRUs and Kmart - all years or decades in the making - to try to be the result of contemporary economic policies and political leadership.

WCDawg

@YaleDawg said:

@WCDawg said:

@Raiderbeater1 said:
How bout we don’t sell ourselves out to the Chinese? They are playing the economic warfare long-game.

I’ll take a recession to get rid of the hold they have on production and our economy.

No pain no gain.

That boat has sailed.
One thing I do agree with Trump on is protecting our intellectual property. I'd be glad to throw some CEOs in prison for sending information developed in America to China. Trump is FOS with his coal wars and pretending we can revert back to a 1960s economy though. If we really cut the cord with China it wouldn't be a recession, it would be a monumental collapse across the developed world. We are dependent on each other. The fact is we are also losing market dominance, the world won't depend as heavily on selling their goods here as the east continues to expand their markets. That will leave us with 2 aces, our way of life and intellectual property. If we can't dominate in tech development and retention, we'll be second rate in 20 years.

We need to dominate alternative energy production development

Absolutely we do, and we need to treat all emerging technologies that might be important going forward like Manhattan Projects. Put money into those things that hold the keys to future growth and dominance.

WCDawg

@a_rattler said:

@WCDawg said:

@a_rattler said:

@WCDawg said:
Hold on folks, this is getting serious. I'm too old for a slow climb back.

Everyone knew that iPhone sales would slow down as they went from being cultural phenomenons to regular products. Apple staved this off first by introducing larger screens then by boosting Chinese sales to compensate for falling US sales but they finally ran out of tricks. Their attempts to turn India into another China for them failed for regulatory reasons as India's government did not want too much competition for their own domestic smartphone industry, and there are no other big markets for them to expand to.

The iPhone had a great run ... the longest in history for a product that expensive at that volume and scale. But it is finally over. Apple knew this was coming in advance and it is the reason why they have been pivoting to being a services company for some time. Even though they can make as money that way as before that doesn't excite the stockbrokers as much as selling 100 million iPhones a quarter used to.

Apple is just my example though, it's virtually the entire market, from tech to heavy industry to services. It's the stock market, not jobs, etc, those generally lag behind the market.

I understand. It is just that Apple is a terrible example to try to use to illustrate broader trends. If the iPhone was still selling like it was 3 years ago and its stock price was falling you would have a point. As it is this is little different from using the decline of Sears, ToysRUs and Kmart - all years or decades in the making - to try to be the result of contemporary economic policies and political leadership.

That is an overstatement, but I see your point. Samsung has taken a lot of market share from Apple. Though Apple still has incredible profit margins.

Bankwalker

@WCDawg said:

@YaleDawg said:

@WCDawg said:

@Raiderbeater1 said:
How bout we don’t sell ourselves out to the Chinese? They are playing the economic warfare long-game.

I’ll take a recession to get rid of the hold they have on production and our economy.

No pain no gain.

That boat has sailed.
One thing I do agree with Trump on is protecting our intellectual property. I'd be glad to throw some CEOs in prison for sending information developed in America to China. Trump is FOS with his coal wars and pretending we can revert back to a 1960s economy though. If we really cut the cord with China it wouldn't be a recession, it would be a monumental collapse across the developed world. We are dependent on each other. The fact is we are also losing market dominance, the world won't depend as heavily on selling their goods here as the east continues to expand their markets. That will leave us with 2 aces, our way of life and intellectual property. If we can't dominate in tech development and retention, we'll be second rate in 20 years.

We need to dominate alternative energy production development

Absolutely we do, and we need to treat all emerging technologies that might be important going forward like Manhattan Projects. Put money into those things that hold the keys to future growth and dominance.

Who should? The Federal Government?

WCDawg

@Bankwalker said:

@WCDawg said:

@YaleDawg said:

@WCDawg said:

@Raiderbeater1 said:
How bout we don’t sell ourselves out to the Chinese? They are playing the economic warfare long-game.

I’ll take a recession to get rid of the hold they have on production and our economy.

No pain no gain.

That boat has sailed.
One thing I do agree with Trump on is protecting our intellectual property. I'd be glad to throw some CEOs in prison for sending information developed in America to China. Trump is FOS with his coal wars and pretending we can revert back to a 1960s economy though. If we really cut the cord with China it wouldn't be a recession, it would be a monumental collapse across the developed world. We are dependent on each other. The fact is we are also losing market dominance, the world won't depend as heavily on selling their goods here as the east continues to expand their markets. That will leave us with 2 aces, our way of life and intellectual property. If we can't dominate in tech development and retention, we'll be second rate in 20 years.

We need to dominate alternative energy production development

Absolutely we do, and we need to treat all emerging technologies that might be important going forward like Manhattan Projects. Put money into those things that hold the keys to future growth and dominance.

Who should? The Federal Government?

Of course.
Don't be an Ayn Rand parroting idiot your whole life. federal investments in the 50s through the 70s laid the foundation for the tech market that brought us back from under the thumb of The Japanese electronics and auto industries that dominated the world from the late 70s into the 90s. The Chinese dam sure use government money and resources to fuel it's tech economy. If you think there is a world free market, you're clueless.

Bankwalker

@WCDawg said:

@Bankwalker said:

@WCDawg said:

@YaleDawg said:

@WCDawg said:

@Raiderbeater1 said:
How bout we don’t sell ourselves out to the Chinese? They are playing the economic warfare long-game.

I’ll take a recession to get rid of the hold they have on production and our economy.

No pain no gain.

That boat has sailed.
One thing I do agree with Trump on is protecting our intellectual property. I'd be glad to throw some CEOs in prison for sending information developed in America to China. Trump is FOS with his coal wars and pretending we can revert back to a 1960s economy though. If we really cut the cord with China it wouldn't be a recession, it would be a monumental collapse across the developed world. We are dependent on each other. The fact is we are also losing market dominance, the world won't depend as heavily on selling their goods here as the east continues to expand their markets. That will leave us with 2 aces, our way of life and intellectual property. If we can't dominate in tech development and retention, we'll be second rate in 20 years.

We need to dominate alternative energy production development

Absolutely we do, and we need to treat all emerging technologies that might be important going forward like Manhattan Projects. Put money into those things that hold the keys to future growth and dominance.

Who should? The Federal Government?

Of course.
Don't be an Ayn Rand parroting idiot your whole life. federal investments in the 50s through the 70s laid the foundation for the tech market that brought us back from under the thumb of The Japanese electronics and auto industries that dominated the world from the late 70s into the 90s. The Chinese dam sure use government money and resources to fuel it's tech economy. If you think there is a world free market, you're clueless.

You are incapable of having a discussion without insulting people. You should seek help.

Signs and symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder and the severity of symptoms vary. People with the disorder can:

Have an exaggerated sense of self-importance
Have a sense of entitlement and require constant, excessive admiration
Expect to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
Exaggerate achievements and talents
Be preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate
Believe they are superior and can only associate with equally special people
Monopolize conversations and belittle or look down on people they perceive as inferior
Expect special favors and unquestioning compliance with their expectations
Take advantage of others to get what they want
Have an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
Be envious of others and believe others envy them
Behave in an arrogant or haughty manner, coming across as conceited, boastful and pretentious
Insist on having the best of everything — for instance, the best car or office
At the same time, people with narcissistic personality disorder have trouble handling anything they perceive as criticism, and they can:

Become impatient or angry when they don't receive special treatment
Have significant interpersonal problems and easily feel slighted
React with rage or contempt and try to belittle the other person to make themselves appear superior
Have difficulty regulating emotions and behavior
Experience major problems dealing with stress and adapting to change
Feel depressed and moody because they fall short of perfection
Have secret feelings of insecurity, shame, vulnerability and humiliation

YaleDawg

@YaleDawg said:

@WCDawg said:

@YaleDawg said:

@WCDawg said:

@a_rattler said:

@WCDawg said:
Hold on folks, this is getting serious. I'm too old for a slow climb back.

Everyone knew that iPhone sales would slow down as they went from being cultural phenomenons to regular products. Apple staved this off first by introducing larger screens then by boosting Chinese sales to compensate for falling US sales but they finally ran out of tricks. Their attempts to turn India into another China for them failed for regulatory reasons as India's government did not want too much competition for their own domestic smartphone industry, and there are no other big markets for them to expand to.

The iPhone had a great run ... the longest in history for a product that expensive at that volume and scale. But it is finally over. Apple knew this was coming in advance and it is the reason why they have been pivoting to being a services company for some time. Even though they can make as money that way as before that doesn't excite the stockbrokers as much as selling 100 million iPhones a quarter used to.

Apple is just my example though, it's virtually the entire market, from tech to heavy industry to services. It's the stock market, not jobs, etc, those generally lag behind the market.

You gotta know your audience by now. Most people here wont want to admit we're heading for another bad recession and they will definitely get mad for you pinning blame on trump. You're trying to get the forum riled up at this point.

That wasn't my original intent, but when it seemed there was a subtle shift to Obama bad I was quick to react. No doubt I knew this was possible or even likely though. Also, I use the word ''though'' too often, I usually have to edit most out.

Yeah the Democrats are the root of all evil posts are predictable. It's best to stay away from online political interactions. Incredibly unproductive and turns into a giant pi ssing match

Call me nostradamus

WCDawg

@Bankwalker said:

@WCDawg said:

@Bankwalker said:

@WCDawg said:

@YaleDawg said:

@WCDawg said:

@Raiderbeater1 said:
How bout we don’t sell ourselves out to the Chinese? They are playing the economic warfare long-game.

I’ll take a recession to get rid of the hold they have on production and our economy.

No pain no gain.

That boat has sailed.
One thing I do agree with Trump on is protecting our intellectual property. I'd be glad to throw some CEOs in prison for sending information developed in America to China. Trump is FOS with his coal wars and pretending we can revert back to a 1960s economy though. If we really cut the cord with China it wouldn't be a recession, it would be a monumental collapse across the developed world. We are dependent on each other. The fact is we are also losing market dominance, the world won't depend as heavily on selling their goods here as the east continues to expand their markets. That will leave us with 2 aces, our way of life and intellectual property. If we can't dominate in tech development and retention, we'll be second rate in 20 years.

We need to dominate alternative energy production development

Absolutely we do, and we need to treat all emerging technologies that might be important going forward like Manhattan Projects. Put money into those things that hold the keys to future growth and dominance.

Who should? The Federal Government?

Of course.
Don't be an Ayn Rand parroting idiot your whole life. federal investments in the 50s through the 70s laid the foundation for the tech market that brought us back from under the thumb of The Japanese electronics and auto industries that dominated the world from the late 70s into the 90s. The Chinese dam sure use government money and resources to fuel it's tech economy. If you think there is a world free market, you're clueless.

You are incapable of having a discussion without insulting people. You should seek help.

Signs and symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder and the severity of symptoms vary. People with the disorder can:

Have an exaggerated sense of self-importance
Have a sense of entitlement and require constant, excessive admiration
Expect to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
Exaggerate achievements and talents
Be preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate
Believe they are superior and can only associate with equally special people
Monopolize conversations and belittle or look down on people they perceive as inferior
Expect special favors and unquestioning compliance with their expectations
Take advantage of others to get what they want
Have an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
Be envious of others and believe others envy them
Behave in an arrogant or haughty manner, coming across as conceited, boastful and pretentious
Insist on having the best of everything — for instance, the best car or office
At the same time, people with narcissistic personality disorder have trouble handling anything they perceive as criticism, and they can:

Become impatient or angry when they don't receive special treatment
Have significant interpersonal problems and easily feel slighted
React with rage or contempt and try to belittle the other person to make themselves appear superior
Have difficulty regulating emotions and behavior
Experience major problems dealing with stress and adapting to change
Feel depressed and moody because they fall short of perfection
Have secret feelings of insecurity, shame, vulnerability and humiliation

Review your posts, stop the BS, anybody can browse through this thread and see what you're about.

WCDawg

@Bankwalker said:
Nor will Nancy or that other nutlicker, Chuck Schumer

A.

WCDawg

@Bankwalker said:

@WCDawg said:

@Bankwalker said:
https://ajc.com/news/next-president-likely-face-recession/qxFPmfd0p1a1AZo55AzOLM/

Trump was quick to claim to be the greatest president in history simply by riding Obama's expansion out. Obama took the job market from 10% unemployment down to 4.7%. The decline continued under Trump, it went down .7% and Trump claimed the best job growth in history. It's like somebody else climbed within 500ft of the top of Everest, Trump flew in had Sherpas carry him 500ft, and had a butt boy plant a Trump Summit flag.
He deserves every bit of fallout for being who he is.

I'm not going to defend Trump, just posting what I know. The whole time he was running off about the above things you mention I was thinking it was a bad idea. I don't know who I will vote for next time around, but I hope there's an alternative to him and THE COMMIES YOU SUPPORT.

B.

WCDawg

@Bankwalker said:

@WCDawg said:

@Bankwalker said:

@WCDawg said:

@YaleDawg said:

@WCDawg said:

@Raiderbeater1 said:
How bout we don’t sell ourselves out to the Chinese? They are playing the economic warfare long-game.

I’ll take a recession to get rid of the hold they have on production and our economy.

No pain no gain.

That boat has sailed.
One thing I do agree with Trump on is protecting our intellectual property. I'd be glad to throw some CEOs in prison for sending information developed in America to China. Trump is FOS with his coal wars and pretending we can revert back to a 1960s economy though. If we really cut the cord with China it wouldn't be a recession, it would be a monumental collapse across the developed world. We are dependent on each other. The fact is we are also losing market dominance, the world won't depend as heavily on selling their goods here as the east continues to expand their markets. That will leave us with 2 aces, our way of life and intellectual property. If we can't dominate in tech development and retention, we'll be second rate in 20 years.

We need to dominate alternative energy production development

Absolutely we do, and we need to treat all emerging technologies that might be important going forward like Manhattan Projects. Put money into those things that hold the keys to future growth and dominance.

Who should? The Federal Government?

Of course.
Don't be an Ayn Rand parroting idiot your whole life. federal investments in the 50s through the 70s laid the foundation for the tech market that brought us back from under the thumb of The Japanese electronics and auto industries that dominated the world from the late 70s into the 90s. The Chinese dam sure use government money and resources to fuel it's tech economy. If you think there is a world free market, you're clueless.

You are incapable of having a discussion without insulting people. You should seek help.

Signs and symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder and the severity of symptoms vary. People with the disorder can:

Have an exaggerated sense of self-importance
Have a sense of entitlement and require constant, excessive admiration
Expect to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
Exaggerate achievements and talents
Be preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate
Believe they are superior and can only associate with equally special people
Monopolize conversations and belittle or look down on people they perceive as inferior
Expect special favors and unquestioning compliance with their expectations
Take advantage of others to get what they want
Have an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
Be envious of others and believe others envy them
Behave in an arrogant or haughty manner, coming across as conceited, boastful and pretentious
Insist on having the best of everything — for instance, the best car or office
At the same time, people with narcissistic personality disorder have trouble handling anything they perceive as criticism, and they can:

Become impatient or angry when they don't receive special treatment
Have significant interpersonal problems and easily feel slighted
React with rage or contempt and try to belittle the other person to make themselves appear superior
Have difficulty regulating emotions and behavior
Experience major problems dealing with stress and adapting to change
Feel depressed and moody because they fall short of perfection
Have secret feelings of insecurity, shame, vulnerability and humiliation

Blow harder.

Bankwalker

Chuck Schumer does lick nuts. True story.

Dawg1419

DamnYankeeDawg

@a_rattler said:

@WCDawg said:
Hold on folks, this is getting serious. I'm too old for a slow climb back.

Everyone knew that iPhone sales would slow down as they went from being cultural phenomenons to regular products. Apple staved this off first by introducing larger screens then by boosting Chinese sales to compensate for falling US sales but they finally ran out of tricks. Their attempts to turn India into another China for them failed for regulatory reasons as India's government did not want too much competition for their own domestic smartphone industry, and there are no other big markets for them to expand to.

The iPhone had a great run ... the longest in history for a product that expensive at that volume and scale. But it is finally over. Apple knew this was coming in advance and it is the reason why they have been pivoting to being a services company for some time. Even though they can make as money that way as before that doesn't excite the stockbrokers as much as selling 100 million iPhones a quarter used to.

Agree 100% with you on Apple, particularly the transition to a services company. And, they should. See Amazon which makes most of its profit on its cloud services and advertising while its retail business profitability mirrors the retail sector at large.

Consumers are balking at the $1,000+ price point of the new phones. Apple needs to reset its strategy at some point with hardware price points across the entire portfolio. That said, margins are sky high for hardware so I don't believe we will see this any time soon.

Consumers may also be waiting for 5G to be rolled out as well although I believe this is less a factor than the price of the phones. There's always some lag with network upgrades (2G -> 3G, 3G -> 4G) translating to increased speeds that makes this less of a factor.

a_rattler

@DamnYankeeDawg said:

@a_rattler said:

@WCDawg said:
Hold on folks, this is getting serious. I'm too old for a slow climb back.

Everyone knew that iPhone sales would slow down as they went from being cultural phenomenons to regular products. Apple staved this off first by introducing larger screens then by boosting Chinese sales to compensate for falling US sales but they finally ran out of tricks. Their attempts to turn India into another China for them failed for regulatory reasons as India's government did not want too much competition for their own domestic smartphone industry, and there are no other big markets for them to expand to.

The iPhone had a great run ... the longest in history for a product that expensive at that volume and scale. But it is finally over. Apple knew this was coming in advance and it is the reason why they have been pivoting to being a services company for some time. Even though they can make as money that way as before that doesn't excite the stockbrokers as much as selling 100 million iPhones a quarter used to.

Agree 100% with you on Apple, particularly the transition to a services company. And, they should. See Amazon which makes most of its profit on its cloud services and advertising while its retail business profitability mirrors the retail sector at large.

Consumers are balking at the $1,000+ price point of the new phones. Apple needs to reset its strategy at some point with hardware price points across the entire portfolio. That said, margins are sky high for hardware so I don't believe we will see this any time soon.

Consumers may also be waiting for 5G to be rolled out as well although I believe this is less a factor than the price of the phones. There's always some lag with network upgrades (2G -> 3G, 3G -> 4G) translating to increased speeds that makes this less of a factor.

Yes people are waiting on 5G. I will not get a new Samsung until all the hardware and software and carrier bugs are worked out so that will probably mean the Note 11 in fall 2020. I am also hoping that at least one carrier is smart enough to lease 5G routers that we can use to replace home broadband Internet. But they will have to alter their business model by dropping data caps to do that.

But domestic iPhone sales have been dropping for years now because people have stopped treating them like trendy fashion accessories. Back when having a new iPhone made you cool - so much so that celebrities made sure to be photographed carrying and using them - some people were actually getting one every 6 to 9 months. Carriers had to stop subsidizing smartphones due to losing so much money because of this, which was one of the reasons for the sales decline. They tried to compensate with what were basically iPhone rental programs that would allow you to pay a monthly rate and trade in an old one for a new one as often as once per year but it wasn't the same. When Wall Street finally realized those days were never coming back, that was when the Apple stock price took a dive.