Are tutors pressured in to completing coursework for athletes?

WCDawg

@RedBlackDawg said:

@WCDawg said:

@RedBlackDawg said:

@donm said:

@RedBlackDawg said:
I’ve not researched the details of the whole Mizzou affair. But back in my day, if something like this happened, both the tutor AND the student would have probably been expelled from said college, at the very least, the student would have immediately been flunked out of the class. Aren’t there 2 guilty parties here, the tutor AND the student? Did the student not know that the tutor took their tests for them? Is this not more evidence that student athletes are sometimes treated like royalty? These same student athletes that some call “slaves” to the athletic department and university?

It was also once said that slaves had it good...they were given a place to live and food to eat...just sayin'

Right.....conflating modern student athletes with African American slaves. Yeah that’s a valid argument (snark). These poor student-athletes: all you can eat food and snacks, free room and board, stipend in the thousands of dollars, free health insurance, free tutors (who apparently, can take tests for you as well), oh and not to mention a free education, if the athlete wants to take on that endeavor seriously. All that suffering!!!

House slaves had it good....right ?
I agree it's a conflation, but I also think athletes have been exploited, and to some extent they still are. The system hides behind the university/educational shield to get by with something that would never be allowed otherwise.
The only reason stipends were hurried through was to tamp down a growing movement that might have caused the issue to be settled in courts of law.

I agree with you to a point. As I posted before, if the “athletes are slaves” crowd is so outraged, eliminate the whole “student-athlete” facade and create a semi-pro league sponsored by the universities. “The Bulldogs affiliated with UGA”
Pay them whatever salary the market will bear, and if they want to go to the school that they’re affiliated with, first they must qualify like everyone else, then they must do it on their own dime and time. But I don’t buy into this notion that the present system (with all the benefits they get) is exploitative....that’s nonsense

So much wrong with that post. Many of you either have little knowledge of the history of collusive monopolies or simply ignore the obvious. When one side has all the controls and simply gives the second party what it chooses to without having to bargain with the second party, it goes against everything the free market stands for.

RedBlackDawg

A> @WCDawg said:

@RedBlackDawg said:

@WCDawg said:

@RedBlackDawg said:
I’ve not researched the details of the whole Mizzou affair. But back in my day, if something like this happened, both the tutor AND the student would have probably been expelled from said college, at the very least, the student would have immediately been flunked out of the class. Aren’t there 2 guilty parties here, the tutor AND the student? Did the student not know that the tutor took their tests for them? Is this not more evidence that student athletes are sometimes treated like royalty? These same student athletes that some call “slaves” to the athletic department and university?

I don't know when your day was, but our 1980 national title was won with 9 players who should have been ineligible because of failing grades.
This was at the heart of the Jan Kemp affair and today Vince Dooley would be fired with cause over something similar to what he at least allowed, and likely was the chief facilitator.

When I mean “my day” (early 80’s), the average “student” would be expelled for these types of shenanigans. Not these student athletes back in the day or presently. You missed my point, there were apparently 2 parties in this subterfuge, the student and the tutor. Only the tutor gets punished? These poor “slaves”....

No, there were 3 parties, the program was behind the cheating, Vince Dooley never had to answer for his role in allowing players to go through UGA and come out illiterate.

Agreed, but you’re talking about events from 40 years ago. There are many “student-athletes” today that DO get an education, don’t go to the league, and then leverage their scholarship education (along with the networking of being a UGA football alum) into productive and fruitful lives. Of course, their are still many athletes, who don’t finish school or take it seriously, and are barely literate, even though they have the best housing, meal plan, free tutoring, etc that the average student doesn’t have. That’s called free will.....

christopherules

Yes, it’s sad. Apparently, there a brand new case that’s going to be costing Missouri this year. There have been some infamous cases like the one in the early 1980s at Georgia. I would hope that it isn’t as widespread as it once was, but (like a lot of other things) I have zero firsthand knowledge one way, or the other.

WCDawg

@RedBlackDawg said:
A> @WCDawg said:

@RedBlackDawg said:

@WCDawg said:

@RedBlackDawg said:
I’ve not researched the details of the whole Mizzou affair. But back in my day, if something like this happened, both the tutor AND the student would have probably been expelled from said college, at the very least, the student would have immediately been flunked out of the class. Aren’t there 2 guilty parties here, the tutor AND the student? Did the student not know that the tutor took their tests for them? Is this not more evidence that student athletes are sometimes treated like royalty? These same student athletes that some call “slaves” to the athletic department and university?

I don't know when your day was, but our 1980 national title was won with 9 players who should have been ineligible because of failing grades.
This was at the heart of the Jan Kemp affair and today Vince Dooley would be fired with cause over something similar to what he at least allowed, and likely was the chief facilitator.

When I mean “my day” (early 80’s), the average “student” would be expelled for these types of shenanigans. Not these student athletes back in the day or presently. You missed my point, there were apparently 2 parties in this subterfuge, the student and the tutor. Only the tutor gets punished? These poor “slaves”....

No, there were 3 parties, the program was behind the cheating, Vince Dooley never had to answer for his role in allowing players to go through UGA and come out illiterate.

Agreed, but you’re talking about events from 40 years ago. There are many “student-athletes” today that DO get an education, don’t go to the league, and then leverage their scholarship education (along with the networking of being a UGA football alum) into productive and fruitful lives. Of course, their are still many athletes, who don’t finish school or take it seriously, and are barely literate, even though they have the best housing, meal plan, free tutoring, etc that the average student doesn’t have. That’s called free will.....

There were many student athletes who got a good education and didn't play pro ball in 1980, the scam was in keeping many who weren't making grades eligible. Dooley like most adhered to the idea that it was there if they wanted it, he like most felt no responsibility to force players to do the work.

RedBlackDawg

@WCDawg said:

@RedBlackDawg said:

@WCDawg said:

@RedBlackDawg said:

@donm said:

@RedBlackDawg said:
I’ve not researched the details of the whole Mizzou affair. But back in my day, if something like this happened, both the tutor AND the student would have probably been expelled from said college, at the very least, the student would have immediately been flunked out of the class. Aren’t there 2 guilty parties here, the tutor AND the student? Did the student not know that the tutor took their tests for them? Is this not more evidence that student athletes are sometimes treated like royalty? These same student athletes that some call “slaves” to the athletic department and university?

It was also once said that slaves had it good...they were given a place to live and food to eat...just sayin'

Right.....conflating modern student athletes with African American slaves. Yeah that’s a valid argument (snark). These poor student-athletes: all you can eat food and snacks, free room and board, stipend in the thousands of dollars, free health insurance, free tutors (who apparently, can take tests for you as well), oh and not to mention a free education, if the athlete wants to take on that endeavor seriously. All that suffering!!!

House slaves had it good....right ?
I agree it's a conflation, but I also think athletes have been exploited, and to some extent they still are. The system hides behind the university/educational shield to get by with something that would never be allowed otherwise.
The only reason stipends were hurried through was to tamp down a growing movement that might have caused the issue to be settled in courts of law.

I agree with you to a point. As I posted before, if the “athletes are slaves” crowd is so outraged, eliminate the whole “student-athlete” facade and create a semi-pro league sponsored by the universities. “The Bulldogs affiliated with UGA”
Pay them whatever salary the market will bear, and if they want to go to the school that they’re affiliated with, first they must qualify like everyone else, then they must do it on their own dime and time. But I don’t buy into this notion that the present system (with all the benefits they get) is exploitative....that’s nonsense

So much wrong with that post. Many of you either have little knowledge of the history of collusive monopolies or simply ignore the obvious. When one side has all the controls and simply gives the second party what it chooses to without having to bargain with the second party, it goes against everything the free market stands for.

Uh....I said that under my proposal, the players can make whatever salary the market will bear. Fromm and Swift make a lot, the long snapper not so much. And I’m sure there would be a players union to represent their interests.

RedBlackDawg

@WCDawg said:

@RedBlackDawg said:
A> @WCDawg said:

@RedBlackDawg said:

@WCDawg said:

@RedBlackDawg said:
I’ve not researched the details of the whole Mizzou affair. But back in my day, if something like this happened, both the tutor AND the student would have probably been expelled from said college, at the very least, the student would have immediately been flunked out of the class. Aren’t there 2 guilty parties here, the tutor AND the student? Did the student not know that the tutor took their tests for them? Is this not more evidence that student athletes are sometimes treated like royalty? These same student athletes that some call “slaves” to the athletic department and university?

I don't know when your day was, but our 1980 national title was won with 9 players who should have been ineligible because of failing grades.
This was at the heart of the Jan Kemp affair and today Vince Dooley would be fired with cause over something similar to what he at least allowed, and likely was the chief facilitator.

When I mean “my day” (early 80’s), the average “student” would be expelled for these types of shenanigans. Not these student athletes back in the day or presently. You missed my point, there were apparently 2 parties in this subterfuge, the student and the tutor. Only the tutor gets punished? These poor “slaves”....

No, there were 3 parties, the program was behind the cheating, Vince Dooley never had to answer for his role in allowing players to go through UGA and come out illiterate.

Agreed, but you’re talking about events from 40 years ago. There are many “student-athletes” today that DO get an education, don’t go to the league, and then leverage their scholarship education (along with the networking of being a UGA football alum) into productive and fruitful lives. Of course, their are still many athletes, who don’t finish school or take it seriously, and are barely literate, even though they have the best housing, meal plan, free tutoring, etc that the average student doesn’t have. That’s called free will.....

There were many student athletes who got a good education and didn't play pro ball in 1980, the scam was in keeping many who weren't making grades eligible. Dooley like most adhered to the idea that it was there if they wanted it, he like most felt no responsibility to force players to do the work.

Of course, and that still happens today!!! You have some (albeit few) student athletes that major in say, electrical engineering, where the work load is very hard. You have others that major in “recreational studies” where the workload is a joke. Again, free will.....

WCDawg

@christopherules said:
Yes, it’s sad. Apparently, there a brand new case that’s going to be costing Missouri this year. There have been some infamous cases like the one in the early 1980s at Georgia. I would hope that it isn’t as widespread as it once was, but (like a lot of other things) I have zero firsthand knowledge one way, or the other.

I have zero doubt UGA is better now than in those times when it was operating under the philosophy that the opportunity is there, it's up to the player to take advantage, while secretly helping them cheat.
Interesting the 2 most vilified people in UGA history, Kemp and President Adams were the 2 essential reformers in our history.

MeR3htid

Yeah the Jimmies and Joes r too busy preparing for the NFL and keeping their coaches employed to b bogged down with a bunch of school work. Their school work takes place in practice, film study, S&C and the games. Fact.