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The Last Dance



  • Dawgy_FreshDawgy_Fresh Posts: 895 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    I think Shaqs foot work is vastly underrated, people just he was too big and dunked on people. The guy’s foot work is insane extremely skilled as a big man.

    I think you should go look at Wilts film or documentary, the dude had like a 45 inch vertical, and was an athlete. At 7’1 was able run the hurdles and had some speed. He would be an elite player in today’s game. He prolly wouldn’t score a 100 but he would be a dominant force. I think he deserves to be in any top 10 of all time.

  • SoFL_DawgSoFL_Dawg Posts: 11,084 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited April 2020

    Fair point, recency/generational biases here. When 6’4 guys are the ones guarding you, you put up 100. I just think those other guys are better.

  • pgjacksonpgjackson Posts: 15,917 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Crazy to think that Shaq was the same height as Kareem, but 100lbs heavier.

  • AnotherDawgAnotherDawg Posts: 6,758 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited April 2020

    The all time players are so talented in their own right, I'm not sure the distinctions matter much. If you let me pick my entire starting lineup first, I would bet your "second" five could take them to a Game 7.


    Let's say I go first and choose Oscar, MJ, Baylor, Bird, and Kareem. I prefer that five because it gives me the best player (MJ), the all time leading scorer (Kareem), the best pure shooter (Bird), plus Robertson and Baylor, who not only score but are great passers as well.

    That leaves you with what: Magic, Kobe, Lebron, Malone, and Shaq? That's insane! An argument can be made that your five could not only compete but actually win a seven game series against mine. That's how close these comparisons are.

    As @Dawgy_Fresh said, it's fun to have the debate.

  • pgjacksonpgjackson Posts: 15,917 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Good points. So, outside of LeBron and Curry...who are the legends playing right now? Serious question because I really haven't watched basketball since the Jordan years. I have no idea who, right now, are the greats. Back in the 80's and 90's you had probably 20-30 absolute legends in the league, aside from those already mentioned you had guys like Robinson, Drexler, Barkley, Kemp, Malone, Wilkins, Mutombo, Mullen, Ewing, Hardaway, Divac, Blaylock, Grant, Stockton...pretty much all playing at the same time. These were household names back then. I have no idea who the superstars are now.

  • AnotherDawgAnotherDawg Posts: 6,758 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    I don't follow it as closely as I once did, so there are forum members who can probably answer your question better, but off the top of my head:

    Lebron was the best of the past decade. In addition to Curry, other great players (since 2000) include Kevin Durant, Kevin Garnett, Dirk Nowitski, Russell Westbrook, Steve Nash, James Harden.

    Giannis Antetokounmpo might be the best player today. Zion Williamson could take that title in the near future. Other great young players include Jokic, Doncic, maybe Porzingis?

    I'm sure there are other names that could be added to those lists. And there's no doubt that guys like Durant/Giannis/Zion could hold their own against anyone from the 80's/90's.

  • AnotherDawgAnotherDawg Posts: 6,758 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Ha! I wonder how far that carries you. I mean, do I win with MJ even if I have to replace Kareem with Jon Koncak? Or Bird with Luc Richard Mbah a Moute?

  • SoFL_DawgSoFL_Dawg Posts: 11,084 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Probably not, but with top 20 players only, the team with MJ wins.

  • KaseyKasey Posts: 27,127 mod

    MJ won three titles with the three headed white stiff at Center...he could win with Jon Koncak

  • ThelordjohnsonThelordjohnson Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @Dawgy_Fresh couldnt qoute your post.

    Sorry if it came across as a tone just enjoying the debate.

    Id say those Jazz teams were better TEAMS than the Bulls. They pushed the Bulls hard.

    When talking about NBA HOF remember that they have probably the easiest HOF to join. Im sure 04 Pistons have 2 if not 3 soon in Big Shot, Rip, and maybe a Dennis clone in Wallace. Heck Rasheed wasnt a bum himself.

    I do agree with @Kasey Rodman wasnt in his prime. He didn't even care anymore. But MJ got a hold of him and found that fire saying "I need you." Rodman wasnt the same after the suicide "attempt."

    Grant Hill definitely was the better player at the time with less talent surrounding him bit guys that over stepped him.

    Im not a guy that's sold strictly on HOFers being end all be all of teams. Especially since Im a Pacers fan and Ive seen better teams lose to luck or more talent.

    Pacers - Miller and add two of the smarter players in Marc Jackson and Scott. Also made the Finals after MJ left.

    Knicks - Ewing surrounded with Starks, Oakley, Doc, and Greg Anthony.

    Heat - Alonzo and the best crossover over in Hardaway and Rice with Riley as the HC.

    Magic - Shaq and Penny enough said.

    Hawks, Cavs, etc had great players

    The defense then was tough way better individual job task then... a lot of hand checks, jersey grabs, etc...

  • ThelordjohnsonThelordjohnson Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    PG - CP3 (Can vouch for best ever at his position), Curry, Rose (preinjuries), Westbrook (MJ like work ethic), Dame (clutch), Kyrie (dribbles and clutch)... Guys to watch Ben Simmons, Luka Doncic, Trae Young, and Ja Morant... Just missed the cut Rondo and Wall.

    SG - Harden, George, Butler, Klay (2nd best shooter ever 61 points on 12 dribbles)... Guys to watch Beal, Oladipo, Booker, and Mitchell... Just missed the cut Jrue

    SF - LBJ, KD, Kawhi, Giannis... Guys to watch Tatum and Ingram... Just missed the cut Hayward

    PF - Elite guy is Davis, Guys that scrap for their team and are solid Draymond, Horford, Love and Griffin .. Guys to watch Siakim and Sabonis

    C - Embiid, Jokic, KAT, Aldridge, Gobert, Gasol... Guy to watch Turner, Vucevic, Adams, Porzingis (injury derailed him a bit), Capela, Ayton... Just missed Cousins and Drummond

  • AnotherDawgAnotherDawg Posts: 6,758 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Are you saying Chris Paul is the best PG ever, or did I misunderstand?

  • ThelordjohnsonThelordjohnson Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Im saying he is able to seriously have a spot. I personally always go Stockton #1 and CP3 #2. I love CP3s game and think he was built perfectly for the 90s but his health had held back his greatness.

  • pgjacksonpgjackson Posts: 15,917 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    I wonder how many people can name 20+ players from the Jordan era but can't name more than 5 or 6 from LeBron's era.

  • SoFL_DawgSoFL_Dawg Posts: 11,084 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Whoa...my man. Magic, Kidd, IT, Steph? CP3 is a great leader and true baller but man that’s reaching deep there, lol.

  • Canedawg2140Canedawg2140 Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Not enough discussion here about Tim Duncan. He was better than Malone. Probably best PF ever if you consider Russell a C.

  • KaseyKasey Posts: 27,127 mod

    He might be best of his era, but he's not better than Isaiah Thomas.

  • SoFL_DawgSoFL_Dawg Posts: 11,084 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    I would argue he’s not better than Kidd or Steph either. I think they’re all better than Stockton but I respect the stats and how pesky or a defender Stockton was.

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