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Comments
@JRT812 Pistol Pete's best playing days were in his college ball IMHO. He was a really fun pro as well, but he seemed (to me anyway) to be a man BEFORE his time. Tragic ending. Very sad.
Better does depend on exactly what we're discussing.
Starting a franchise - LeBron
Win one game - MJ
Shot to win if your life was on the line - Larry Bird (Pat Riley quote)
Great question.
Championships matter and that's why guys like Jordan, Lebron, Kobe, Bird, and Magic tend to dominate the discussion.
I grew up idolizing Maravich and I've never seen anyone else do what he could do on the basketball floor. A good case can be made that he was the best college player ever. But his NBA career fell short of the mark. (Though it's worth noting that he still made it into the HOF and was also named to the league's 50th anniversary all-time team.)
I couldn't argue with someone if they said Pete was best they ever saw play the game. He averaged 44 ppg for his career at LSU, as a shooting guard in the pre-3pt era. And his ball handling and passing were even more impressive than his scoring. Honestly, I get a little teary thinking about Pete, that's how beautiful his game was.
If there are younger members of the forum who've never watched tape, there's some great stuff on YouTube.
That is hard to watch. I wonder how LeBron would do getting mauled by defenders constantly and not being able to travel, double dribble and carry the ball. It was a totally different game back in Jordan's day.
That's a fair point, but Jordan might not have been "Jordan" without Pippen. Dude never won a playoff game without Pippen. Never even made a playoff game without him I believe.
Yeah the no calls for traveling nowadays is just sad. Hell, Lebron walked up carrying the ball and didn’t get called. Go watch some footage of Pete’s ball handling skills and see the difference.
Yep..
He drug a team Lebron would've thought was star studded to an 8 seed after being out with a foot injury most of the year and Scottie Pippen still in Arkansas at college
Id give the talent advantage to Lebron. The better, more dominant player was MJ imo.
1-6 without Pippen. Made the playoffs twice before Pippen drafted. He wouldve been Jordan without Pippen. Maybe not 6x Champion Jordan but he did have a NCAA Title and the year prior to Pippen went off on Boston for 49 and 63 on back to back nights. Was already the new face of the NBA after All Star Dunk Contest and Game. Although Pippen Rookie year MJ got DPOY and MVP.
So if I am reading everything right....Pistol changed the game, MJ had a great supporting crew, and bron isn’t as good as Pistol
Pete was smooth and made passing and shooting look easy but I don’t think he could take over a ballgame like Lebron can on both ends of the floor. With that said if MJ played in today’s NBA, he would be even more dominant.
didn’t mean to quote Pgjackson
Love the docuseries. I am going to vent (tldr), MJ is the GOAT but somehow to me feels over rated. People treat MJ like he had zero flaws and made every single buzzer beater. The bulls in the 90s were the equivalent of the warriors team, especially the 2nd threepeat who had 3 HOFs in their prime no other team had anything close. It was rare to get two HOFs in their prime on the same team back then. Take a look at who MJ beat:
91- Lakers, Magic’s final healthy year with an aging Worthy vs a young Pippen and Jordan in primes
92 - Blazers, Clyde the Glide that’s it- they had some good role players but not a threat
93 - 1 HoF Barkley, grant it KJ was awesome and I bet he gets in eventually but not only are MJ and Pippen HOFs they are the best at their positions in the NBA at the time- suns had no shot
94- MJ did quit, this is where people lose me on how they just give him a pass. Even in the documentary in episode 1 they said mj was tired emotionally and needed a break. Can you imagine if any player did that in today’s game? People say it was his dad’s death, didn’t Isaiah Thomas Jr play like a day after his sister died? Don’t make excuses for him, he can still be the goat and take a break from playing for 1.5 yrs.
95- people forget he lost the series against the Magic in the playoffs. I hear people say MJ would’ve won 2 more if he didn’t retire- well he lost in the playoffs
96- Sonics- 1 HOF- I love The Glove and they had a couple of all stars like Kemp and Schrempffff but no way this team could beat 3 HOF in their primes
97 and 98 -Jazz- I think these teams were the best teams that MJ played against in the finals but still 3 HOFs in their primes vs 2 HOFs in their primes
When you break it down no wonder MJ never played a game 7, his teams were better and oh ya better coaches with the goat coach.
I really do love MJ, I have like every shoe of his, I had posters of him on my walls as a kid and still think he’s the best to ever play. He just doesn’t walk on water to me like everyone claims.
You actually think Rodman was in his prime? Beg to differ on that one.
93 retirement...Jordan had no challengers left. He conquered everyone.
93 Suns team took them to the limit, which is probably why Jordan left the game
95, Jordan was out most of the season. Didn't come back until March, in baseball shape, without a frontcourt presence and almost took down the Orlando Magic Tricks. So yeah he lost, but he wasn't full strength Jordan. Let's not revise or gloss over history here.
'96: if george karl was smart enough to put Payton on Jordan earlier, maybe the Sonics beat them or at least get it to a Game 7. Reign Man was no joke. Don't let what eventually happen to him cloud your memory of how good that Sonics team really was.
Jordan didn't go to a game 7 because he was that good. His force of personality and will to win wouldn't let it get that far once he unlocked the triangle.
There will be more skilled basketball players. Maybe someone more skilled and talented than Lebron. But there will never be another stone cold killer like MJ who will not rest until you are beaten. Lebron ain't about htat life. Kobe is the only one who comes somewhat close, and he lost 2 finals series.
Since we're talkin' basketball, I just want to put in a good word for Julius Erving and Charles Barkley, for personal reasons.
I lived outside of Philly when Dr. J played for the Sixers, and a case can be made that he was the best player of his era, even better than Bird and Magic. I'm not going to argue that though, because I think the Celtics and Lakers championships speak for themselves. But his style of play definitely paved the way for MJ.
I had left Philly by the time Barkley arrived, but I happened to see him up close when he was at Auburn, and that guy was a freak. In college he was about 6'4" and 280 lbs. But he could jump through the roof, dominate the boards, and drive the length of the court like a guard. It was really something to see.
Erving and Barkley don't quite measure up to MJ, but I think both would be a bigger part of the "best ever" discussion if they had won more championships.
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Footnote- I met Erving in Atlanta some years ago, when he bought a golf course in Tucker. I shook his hand (biggest hand I've ever seen/felt) and told him he was a hero of mine. He couldn't have been more gracious, super nice and humble.