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Did The Hawks get much value in the Schroder trade ?.....

WCDawg

They will end up with a very minor player, a 2022 lottery protected 1st rd pick, or a pair of 2nd rd picks from Oklahoma City if they're in the lottery come 2022. They also open up cap space in 2019.
For sure this was a long play, the team really is better off NOT being better in 2018, it's about draft position for 2019.
Still, it was bad timing to need to move him this year.
Thoughts ?

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jarred_buck

@WCDawg said:
They will end up with a very minor player, a 2022 lottery protected 1st rd pick, or a pair of 2nd rd picks from Oklahoma City if they're in the lottery come 2022. They also open up cap space in 2019.
For sure this was a long play, the team really is better off NOT being better in 2018, it's about draft position for 2019.
Still, it was bad timing to need to move him this year.
Thoughts ?

I agree with the move. There wasn’t much interest in him from other teams, he was not a part of the future, they drafted his replacements (whom needs to receiveplaying time )

WCDawg

@jarred_buck said:

@WCDawg said:
They will end up with a very minor player, a 2022 lottery protected 1st rd pick, or a pair of 2nd rd picks from Oklahoma City if they're in the lottery come 2022. They also open up cap space in 2019.
For sure this was a long play, the team really is better off NOT being better in 2018, it's about draft position for 2019.
Still, it was bad timing to need to move him this year.
Thoughts ?

I agree with the move. There wasn’t much interest in him from other teams, he was not a part of the future, they drafted his replacements (whom needs to receiveplaying time )

@jarred_buck said:

@WCDawg said:
They will end up with a very minor player, a 2022 lottery protected 1st rd pick, or a pair of 2nd rd picks from Oklahoma City if they're in the lottery come 2022. They also open up cap space in 2019.
For sure this was a long play, the team really is better off NOT being better in 2018, it's about draft position for 2019.
Still, it was bad timing to need to move him this year.
Thoughts ?

I agree with the move. There wasn’t much interest in him from other teams, he was not a part of the future, they drafted his replacements (whom needs to receiveplaying time )

He needed to be moved and adding strength to this year's roster would have been counter productive since they want high picksin next year's draft. Given the circumstances it's probably as good a deal as could be expected.

donm

@WCDawg said:

@jarred_buck said:

@WCDawg said:
They will end up with a very minor player, a 2022 lottery protected 1st rd pick, or a pair of 2nd rd picks from Oklahoma City if they're in the lottery come 2022. They also open up cap space in 2019.
For sure this was a long play, the team really is better off NOT being better in 2018, it's about draft position for 2019.
Still, it was bad timing to need to move him this year.
Thoughts ?

I agree with the move. There wasn’t much interest in him from other teams, he was not a part of the future, they drafted his replacements (whom needs to receiveplaying time )

@jarred_buck said:

@WCDawg said:
They will end up with a very minor player, a 2022 lottery protected 1st rd pick, or a pair of 2nd rd picks from Oklahoma City if they're in the lottery come 2022. They also open up cap space in 2019.
For sure this was a long play, the team really is better off NOT being better in 2018, it's about draft position for 2019.
Still, it was bad timing to need to move him this year.
Thoughts ?

I agree with the move. There wasn’t much interest in him from other teams, he was not a part of the future, they drafted his replacements (whom needs to receiveplaying time )

He needed to be moved and adding strength to this year's roster would have been counter productive since they want high picksin next year's draft. Given the circumstances it's probably as good a deal as could be expected.

I agree...it's a long play. One thing for sure is that Schroeder was gifted...he could get to the paint at will and was, I think, getting better at shooting. I don't know how to evaluate his defense. He was talented. Couldn't win a lot with him, so it makes some sense to see what we can do without him.

WCDawg

@donm said:

@WCDawg said:

@jarred_buck said:

@WCDawg said:
They will end up with a very minor player, a 2022 lottery protected 1st rd pick, or a pair of 2nd rd picks from Oklahoma City if they're in the lottery come 2022. They also open up cap space in 2019.
For sure this was a long play, the team really is better off NOT being better in 2018, it's about draft position for 2019.
Still, it was bad timing to need to move him this year.
Thoughts ?

I agree with the move. There wasn’t much interest in him from other teams, he was not a part of the future, they drafted his replacements (whom needs to receiveplaying time )

@jarred_buck said:

@WCDawg said:
They will end up with a very minor player, a 2022 lottery protected 1st rd pick, or a pair of 2nd rd picks from Oklahoma City if they're in the lottery come 2022. They also open up cap space in 2019.
For sure this was a long play, the team really is better off NOT being better in 2018, it's about draft position for 2019.
Still, it was bad timing to need to move him this year.
Thoughts ?

I agree with the move. There wasn’t much interest in him from other teams, he was not a part of the future, they drafted his replacements (whom needs to receiveplaying time )

He needed to be moved and adding strength to this year's roster would have been counter productive since they want high picksin next year's draft. Given the circumstances it's probably as good a deal as could be expected.

I agree...it's a long play. One thing for sure is that Schroeder was gifted...he could get to the paint at will and was, I think, getting better at shooting. I don't know how to evaluate his defense. He was talented. Couldn't win a lot with him, so it makes some sense to see what we can do without him.

I don't like Schroder at shooting guard, so even without the bagage he didn't have a spot long term.
Nobody carries 2 starting PGs, they are the least multi-positional players, unless they are Ben Simmons types.

Reeldawg

The Hawks did get some salary relief on the trade.

If my math is correct, they save around 20 million. I don’t know how far that gets you in the NBA.

Regardless of the savings, I am baffled by the trade. We need to improve now, not later.

WCDawg

@Reeldawg said:
The Hawks did get some salary relief on the trade.

If my math is correct, they save around 20 million. I don’t know how far that gets you in the NBA.

Regardless of the savings, I am baffled by the trade. We need to improve now, not later.

The NBA requires a minimum of 90% of cap space be used every season, so they can't really bank it.
The value cap wise comes in 2019 when they'll have a lot of cap space and might be far enough along to know what they need from the free agent market.
I rspectfully disagree about the need to improve NOW. The need is to BUILD now and reap the benefits later. It's very doubtful Young will be better than Schroder in2018, that's fine IMO. Let him mature while the team loses enough to have a top 5 pick in next year's draft. If there is a hope of building a team capable of competing against the best, it's at the top of several drafts.

donm

@WCDawg said:

@Reeldawg said:
The Hawks did get some salary relief on the trade.

If my math is correct, they save around 20 million. I don’t know how far that gets you in the NBA.

Regardless of the savings, I am baffled by the trade. We need to improve now, not later.

The NBA requires a minimum of 90% of cap space be used every season, so they can't really bank it.
The value cap wise comes in 2019 when they'll have a lot of cap space and might be far enough along to know what they need from the free agent market.
I rspectfully disagree about the need to improve NOW. The need is to BUILD now and reap the benefits later. It's very doubtful Young will be better than Schroder in2018, that's fine IMO. Let him mature while the team loses enough to have a top 5 pick in next year's draft. If there is a hope of building a team capable of competing against the best, it's at the top of several drafts.

I do think that is the process that is best to follow. It's awfully hard to get "good" right now. Usually, folks end up getting better and mediocre and get middling draft choices every year and stay....mediocre. Sort of happened to the Hawks, I think.
They won 60 games and nothing after that but were usually good enough to make the playoffs and usually good enough to not get much in the draft (Schroeder was taken at # 17 I think). Got Muscala, a nice piece, in the 2nd round I think and have now traded him away for a protected draft pick, which may or may not yield a player. It's a nice asset to have and can be included in a trade someday if someone wants to deal.

WCDawg

@donm said:

@WCDawg said:

@Reeldawg said:
The Hawks did get some salary relief on the trade.

If my math is correct, they save around 20 million. I don’t know how far that gets you in the NBA.

Regardless of the savings, I am baffled by the trade. We need to improve now, not later.

The NBA requires a minimum of 90% of cap space be used every season, so they can't really bank it.
The value cap wise comes in 2019 when they'll have a lot of cap space and might be far enough along to know what they need from the free agent market.
I rspectfully disagree about the need to improve NOW. The need is to BUILD now and reap the benefits later. It's very doubtful Young will be better than Schroder in2018, that's fine IMO. Let him mature while the team loses enough to have a top 5 pick in next year's draft. If there is a hope of building a team capable of competing against the best, it's at the top of several drafts.

I do think that is the process that is best to follow. It's awfully hard to get "good" right now. Usually, folks end up getting better and mediocre and get middling draft choices every year and stay....mediocre. Sort of happened to the Hawks, I think.
They won 60 games and nothing after that but were usually good enough to make the playoffs and usually good enough to not get much in the draft (Schroeder was taken at # 17 I think). Got Muscala, a nice piece, in the 2nd round I think and have now traded him away for a protected draft pick, which may or may not yield a player. It's a nice asset to have and can be included in a trade someday if someone wants to deal.

Ferry had the organization set up extremely well. Budenholzer was a good HC, but a truly horrible GM.

Reeldawg

After reading your post @WCDawg, I couldn’t agree with you more.

Basically my post, IMO, was garbage.

I do; however, believe that Trae Young will be a pleasant surprise.

It will be interesting to see how we utilize the value of our upcoming draft picks.

I don’t anything about the coach.

Thelordjohnson

Salary Dump for OKC and Hawks wanted to get rid of a long term contract to free up cap space. Is what it seems like to me.

donm

@Thelordjohnson said:
Salary Dump for OKC and Hawks wanted to get rid of a long term contract to free up cap space. Is what it seems like to me.

Yep!

PTDawg

Given that it was widely known that Shroeder wanted out and that the team wanted him out I think Schlenk did great. Getting a 1st that is only 1-10 protected is a good return on those circumstances. I read that initially OKC wanted 1-20 protection but the Hawks stuck to their guns on the 1-10 only. Good stuff. This may be the worst Hawks team in 20 years next season (I'm thinking 16-18 wins) but I think they are at least in position now to actually start building. You have to position yourself to get stars in the NBA. There is no other way.

donm

@PTDawg said:
Given that it was widely known that Shroeder wanted out and that the team wanted him out I think Schlenk did great. Getting a 1st that is only 1-10 protected is a good return on those circumstances. I read that initially OKC wanted 1-20 protection but the Hawks stuck to their guns on the 1-10 only. Good stuff. This may be the worst Hawks team in 20 years next season (I'm thinking 16-18 wins) but I think they are at least in position now to actually start building. You have to position yourself to get stars in the NBA. There is no other way.

I thought I read it was 1-14 protected.

WCDawg

@Thelordjohnson said:
Salary Dump for OKC and Hawks wanted to get rid of a long term contract to free up cap space. Is what it seems like to me.

No doubt they got what the market will bare. Getting a 1st rd pick in 2022 was certainly taking the long view.

WCDawg

@donm said:

@PTDawg said:
Given that it was widely known that Shroeder wanted out and that the team wanted him out I think Schlenk did great. Getting a 1st that is only 1-10 protected is a good return on those circumstances. I read that initially OKC wanted 1-20 protection but the Hawks stuck to their guns on the 1-10 only. Good stuff. This may be the worst Hawks team in 20 years next season (I'm thinking 16-18 wins) but I think they are at least in position now to actually start building. You have to position yourself to get stars in the NBA. There is no other way.

I thought I read it was 1-14 protected.

That is correct.