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So Meyer has significant memory loss

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  • BoulderDawgBoulderDawg Posts: 721 ✭✭✭ Junior

    Who

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  • TeddyTeddy Posts: 7,109 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @MinnesotaDawg said:

    @donm said:

    @MinnesotaDawg said:
    At this point, it's very hard to understand how people can defend Meyer or the university for defending him. The pyramid of lies and excuses is so overwhelming...the excuses are so blatantly flimsy and false....that those that still claim that they don't understand what he did wrong are being intellectually dishonest themselves.

    This “verdict” surely surprises no one on this forum. When the committee was named several posters pointed out that it would clearly be a whitewash. Prescient I would say.

    True. Personally, I am not surprised about the outcome. I've been posting my opinion since Day 1 of the scandal that I thought he would get suspended for a few games at most...

    My surprise came from reading the investigation report itself....which I expected to be a story crafted to protect Meyer. It certainly does try to put a "best light" spin on the factual findings, but the lenient conclusions of the report make little sense when read in conjunction with the rest of the findings. It's as if the conclusions were written at a different time, by a different person.

    The whole report is littered with misstatement here, lie there, failure to report here, failure to inform there, cover-up here, convenient misstatement here, convenient forgetfulness there, probably destruction of evidence here, don't believe him there, seems like another lie here.....culminating in the ridiculous conclusion that "good faith" mistakes were made and Meyer didn't "intentionally lie." Makes me wonder whether yesterday's 12 hour debate involved significant edits to the report and whether or not to release it at all.

    Another bad faith move by OSU was the failure to release the report until AFTER the press conference, so that reporters in attendance couldn't ask Meyer, Smith, or the President about the disturbing conduct detailed in the report.

    It’s weird how he wiped his cell phone clean. Seems to me if they truly wanted to investigate they’d ask the cell phone provider for the texts. I imagine if it’s a school issued phone they could get them if they really wanted.

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  • levanderlevander Posts: 4,481 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @MinnesotaDawg said:

    @donm said:

    @MinnesotaDawg said:
    At this point, it's very hard to understand how people can defend Meyer or the university for defending him. The pyramid of lies and excuses is so overwhelming...the excuses are so blatantly flimsy and false....that those that still claim that they don't understand what he did wrong are being intellectually dishonest themselves.

    This “verdict” surely surprises no one on this forum. When the committee was named several posters pointed out that it would clearly be a whitewash. Prescient I would say.

    True. Personally, I am not surprised about the outcome. I've been posting my opinion since Day 1 of the scandal that I thought he would get suspended for a few games at most...

    My surprise came from reading the investigation report itself....which I expected to be a story crafted to protect Meyer. It certainly does try to put a "best light" spin on the factual findings, but the lenient conclusions of the report make little sense when read in conjunction with the rest of the findings. It's as if the conclusions were written at a different time, by a different person.

    The whole report is littered with misstatement here, lie there, failure to report here, failure to inform there, cover-up here, convenient misstatement here, convenient forgetfulness there, probably destruction of evidence here, don't believe him there, seems like another lie here.....culminating in the ridiculous conclusion that "good faith" mistakes were made and Meyer didn't "intentionally lie." Makes me wonder whether yesterday's 12 hour debate involved significant edits to the report and whether or not to release it at all.

    Another bad faith move by OSU was the failure to release the report until AFTER the press conference, so that reporters in attendance couldn't ask Meyer, Smith, or the President about the disturbing conduct detailed in the report.

    What you’re describing is a trend lately I’ve seen in government investigations. I wish I could give you better examples, but it’s something just recently I’ve started noticing. But like if there’s something the government doesn’t want to prosecute, they won’t ignore the crimes. They’ll list them all, and even talk about how gory they were. Then at the very end they’ll say, but really this doesn’t deserve much punishment after all. I realize not everyone is going to agree with this, and it’s not really the point of what I’m saying. The point I’m trying to make out is just watch for this pattern. But one instance of this pattern was that day James Comey did a press conference announce the findings of the whole Hillary email thing. Now I’m not going to get into details because someone with a partisan liberal world view will want to argue with me. But just for people interested in the pattern, if anyone, that’s one place to see it. I’m sure you can find that press conference on YouTube, see if it doesn’t sound much like you’re describing happened with the OSU investigation. It’s like they make sure to list everything so no one can say, “what about this??!” If someone says that, they can just say “we already investigated it”.

    It does sound like the OSU findings were more apologetic during it’s statement of findings calling things misstatements, etc. than a James Comey was. But the whole making sure everything isn’t mentioned, then to say “well, really there’s no need to punish...” is exactly the pattern. When any reasonable person reading it would be like, “how can you not punish this ****??!” Well now that they’ve done their investigation, “we listed that, we investigated it already...”

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  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Drug reactions might make him forget where he left his keys, but not whether he knew an assistant was beating his wife.

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  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @levander said:

    @MinnesotaDawg said:

    @donm said:

    @MinnesotaDawg said:
    At this point, it's very hard to understand how people can defend Meyer or the university for defending him. The pyramid of lies and excuses is so overwhelming...the excuses are so blatantly flimsy and false....that those that still claim that they don't understand what he did wrong are being intellectually dishonest themselves.

    This “verdict” surely surprises no one on this forum. When the committee was named several posters pointed out that it would clearly be a whitewash. Prescient I would say.

    True. Personally, I am not surprised about the outcome. I've been posting my opinion since Day 1 of the scandal that I thought he would get suspended for a few games at most...

    My surprise came from reading the investigation report itself....which I expected to be a story crafted to protect Meyer. It certainly does try to put a "best light" spin on the factual findings, but the lenient conclusions of the report make little sense when read in conjunction with the rest of the findings. It's as if the conclusions were written at a different time, by a different person.

    The whole report is littered with misstatement here, lie there, failure to report here, failure to inform there, cover-up here, convenient misstatement here, convenient forgetfulness there, probably destruction of evidence here, don't believe him there, seems like another lie here.....culminating in the ridiculous conclusion that "good faith" mistakes were made and Meyer didn't "intentionally lie." Makes me wonder whether yesterday's 12 hour debate involved significant edits to the report and whether or not to release it at all.

    Another bad faith move by OSU was the failure to release the report until AFTER the press conference, so that reporters in attendance couldn't ask Meyer, Smith, or the President about the disturbing conduct detailed in the report.

    What you’re describing is a trend lately I’ve seen in government investigations. I wish I could give you better examples, but it’s something just recently I’ve started noticing. But like if there’s something the government doesn’t want to prosecute, they won’t ignore the crimes. They’ll list them all, and even talk about how gory they were. Then at the very end they’ll say, but really this doesn’t deserve much punishment after all. I realize not everyone is going to agree with this, and it’s not really the point of what I’m saying. The point I’m trying to make out is just watch for this pattern. But one instance of this pattern was that day James Comey did a press conference announce the findings of the whole Hillary email thing. Now I’m not going to get into details because someone with a partisan liberal world view will want to argue with me. But just for people interested in the pattern, if anyone, that’s one place to see it. I’m sure you can find that press conference on YouTube, see if it doesn’t sound much like you’re describing happened with the OSU investigation. It’s like they make sure to list everything so no one can say, “what about this??!” If someone says that, they can just say “we already investigated it”.

    It does sound like the OSU findings were more apologetic during it’s statement of findings calling things misstatements, etc. than a James Comey was. But the whole making sure everything isn’t mentioned, then to say “well, really there’s no need to punish...” is exactly the pattern. When any reasonable person reading it would be like, “how can you not punish this ****??!” Well now that they’ve done their investigation, “we listed that, we investigated it already...”

    Not to be political but the'' I can't recall'' argument gained favor after Reagan used it repeatedly during The Iran Contra investigation.

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  • BoroDawgBoroDawg Posts: 1,667 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    It may sound like sour grapes coming from a Dawg fan, but we’ve known how sleezy this guy is for a long time. Now the rest of the country sees just how bad he truly is. His time is coming.

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  • levanderlevander Posts: 4,481 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited August 2018

    @WCDawg said:

    @levander said:

    @MinnesotaDawg said:

    @donm said:

    @MinnesotaDawg said:
    At this point, it's very hard to understand how people can defend Meyer or the university for defending him. The pyramid of lies and excuses is so overwhelming...the excuses are so blatantly flimsy and false....that those that still claim that they don't understand what he did wrong are being intellectually dishonest themselves.

    This “verdict” surely surprises no one on this forum. When the committee was named several posters pointed out that it would clearly be a whitewash. Prescient I would say.

    True. Personally, I am not surprised about the outcome. I've been posting my opinion since Day 1 of the scandal that I thought he would get suspended for a few games at most...

    My surprise came from reading the investigation report itself....which I expected to be a story crafted to protect Meyer. It certainly does try to put a "best light" spin on the factual findings, but the lenient conclusions of the report make little sense when read in conjunction with the rest of the findings. It's as if the conclusions were written at a different time, by a different person.

    The whole report is littered with misstatement here, lie there, failure to report here, failure to inform there, cover-up here, convenient misstatement here, convenient forgetfulness there, probably destruction of evidence here, don't believe him there, seems like another lie here.....culminating in the ridiculous conclusion that "good faith" mistakes were made and Meyer didn't "intentionally lie." Makes me wonder whether yesterday's 12 hour debate involved significant edits to the report and whether or not to release it at all.

    Another bad faith move by OSU was the failure to release the report until AFTER the press conference, so that reporters in attendance couldn't ask Meyer, Smith, or the President about the disturbing conduct detailed in the report.

    What you’re describing is a trend lately I’ve seen in government investigations. I wish I could give you better examples, but it’s something just recently I’ve started noticing. But like if there’s something the government doesn’t want to prosecute, they won’t ignore the crimes. They’ll list them all, and even talk about how gory they were. Then at the very end they’ll say, but really this doesn’t deserve much punishment after all. I realize not everyone is going to agree with this, and it’s not really the point of what I’m saying. The point I’m trying to make out is just watch for this pattern. But one instance of this pattern was that day James Comey did a press conference announce the findings of the whole Hillary email thing. Now I’m not going to get into details because someone with a partisan liberal world view will want to argue with me. But just for people interested in the pattern, if anyone, that’s one place to see it. I’m sure you can find that press conference on YouTube, see if it doesn’t sound much like you’re describing happened with the OSU investigation. It’s like they make sure to list everything so no one can say, “what about this??!” If someone says that, they can just say “we already investigated it”.

    It does sound like the OSU findings were more apologetic during it’s statement of findings calling things misstatements, etc. than a James Comey was. But the whole making sure everything isn’t mentioned, then to say “well, really there’s no need to punish...” is exactly the pattern. When any reasonable person reading it would be like, “how can you not punish this ****??!” Well now that they’ve done their investigation, “we listed that, we investigated it already...”

    Not to be political but the'' I can't recall'' argument gained favor after Reagan used it repeatedly during The Iran Contra investigation.

    I’m not talking about the “I can’t recall” thing. I’m talking about official government investigations where they list some ridiculous offenses, you’re reading them, and you’re like “oh my god, they did this!” Then at the end they’ll go, “and we’ll, this doesn’t really deserve any punishment” pattern.

    I should have just written it short like that instead off adding all the disclaimers I added.

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  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited August 2018

    @levander said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @levander said:

    @MinnesotaDawg said:

    @donm said:

    @MinnesotaDawg said:
    At this point, it's very hard to understand how people can defend Meyer or the university for defending him. The pyramid of lies and excuses is so overwhelming...the excuses are so blatantly flimsy and false....that those that still claim that they don't understand what he did wrong are being intellectually dishonest themselves.

    This “verdict” surely surprises no one on this forum. When the committee was named several posters pointed out that it would clearly be a whitewash. Prescient I would say.

    True. Personally, I am not surprised about the outcome. I've been posting my opinion since Day 1 of the scandal that I thought he would get suspended for a few games at most...

    My surprise came from reading the investigation report itself....which I expected to be a story crafted to protect Meyer. It certainly does try to put a "best light" spin on the factual findings, but the lenient conclusions of the report make little sense when read in conjunction with the rest of the findings. It's as if the conclusions were written at a different time, by a different person.

    The whole report is littered with misstatement here, lie there, failure to report here, failure to inform there, cover-up here, convenient misstatement here, convenient forgetfulness there, probably destruction of evidence here, don't believe him there, seems like another lie here.....culminating in the ridiculous conclusion that "good faith" mistakes were made and Meyer didn't "intentionally lie." Makes me wonder whether yesterday's 12 hour debate involved significant edits to the report and whether or not to release it at all.

    Another bad faith move by OSU was the failure to release the report until AFTER the press conference, so that reporters in attendance couldn't ask Meyer, Smith, or the President about the disturbing conduct detailed in the report.

    What you’re describing is a trend lately I’ve seen in government investigations. I wish I could give you better examples, but it’s something just recently I’ve started noticing. But like if there’s something the government doesn’t want to prosecute, they won’t ignore the crimes. They’ll list them all, and even talk about how gory they were. Then at the very end they’ll say, but really this doesn’t deserve much punishment after all. I realize not everyone is going to agree with this, and it’s not really the point of what I’m saying. The point I’m trying to make out is just watch for this pattern. But one instance of this pattern was that day James Comey did a press conference announce the findings of the whole Hillary email thing. Now I’m not going to get into details because someone with a partisan liberal world view will want to argue with me. But just for people interested in the pattern, if anyone, that’s one place to see it. I’m sure you can find that press conference on YouTube, see if it doesn’t sound much like you’re describing happened with the OSU investigation. It’s like they make sure to list everything so no one can say, “what about this??!” If someone says that, they can just say “we already investigated it”.

    It does sound like the OSU findings were more apologetic during it’s statement of findings calling things misstatements, etc. than a James Comey was. But the whole making sure everything isn’t mentioned, then to say “well, really there’s no need to punish...” is exactly the pattern. When any reasonable person reading it would be like, “how can you not punish this ****??!” Well now that they’ve done their investigation, “we listed that, we investigated it already...”

    Not to be political but the'' I can't recall'' argument gained favor after Reagan used it repeatedly during The Iran Contra investigation.

    I’m not talking about the “I can’t recall” thing. I’m talking about official government investigations where they list some ridiculous offenses, you’re reading them, and you’re like “oh my god, they did this!” Then at the end they’ll go, “and we’ll, this doesn’t really deserve any punishment” pattern.

    I should have just written it short like that instead off adding all the disclaimers I added.

    Still, selling weapons to an enemy nation to buy drugs to sell on American streets to finance an illegal war against Central American peasants vs using a private server to store information.
    To an unbiased reader, which seems worse ? I mean to RATIONAL conservatives ?

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  • BoulderDawgBoulderDawg Posts: 721 ✭✭✭ Junior

    Who is Urban Meyer?

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  • BankwalkerBankwalker Posts: 5,348 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @MinnesotaDawg said:
    At this point, it's very hard to understand how people can defend Meyer or the university for defending him. The pyramid of lies and excuses is so overwhelming...the excuses are so blatantly flimsy and false....that those that still claim that they don't understand what he did wrong are being intellectually dishonest themselves.

    I think it is because a good many OSU fans and others are placing a lot of weight on the comments made by the mother of Courtney Smith. When the mother of the victim says she wasnt really abused then there will be some who believe her, especially when it suits their favored narrative. I read an article this morning suggesting the reason Meyer didnt apologize to Courtney Smith is because he possibly doesnt believe her. There was info put out that Shelley Meyer was also skeptical, fwiw. Given the minor punishment by OSU, it seems fair to wonder if perhaps others in the room didnt share those same feelings. The mother said this was about her daughter seeking revenge (for infidelity). The mother and daughter are now estranged, of course, but that was not the case in 2015. Mom says the daughter needs mental help. If this happened in Athens there would be many wondering aloud why the mother’s comments wouldnt carry more weight. They would say not only did the police not press charges, her OWN MOTHER doesnt believe her.

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  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @Bankwalker said:

    @MinnesotaDawg said:
    At this point, it's very hard to understand how people can defend Meyer or the university for defending him. The pyramid of lies and excuses is so overwhelming...the excuses are so blatantly flimsy and false....that those that still claim that they don't understand what he did wrong are being intellectually dishonest themselves.

    I think it is because a good many OSU fans and others are placing a lot of weight on the comments made by the mother of Courtney Smith. When the mother of the victim says she wasnt really abused then there will be some who believe her, especially when it suits their favored narrative. I read an article this morning suggesting the reason Meyer didnt apologize to Courtney Smith is because he possibly doesnt believe her. There was info put out that Shelley Meyer was also skeptical, fwiw. Given the minor punishment by OSU, it seems fair to wonder if perhaps others in the room didnt share those same feelings. The mother said this was about her daughter seeking revenge (for infidelity). The mother and daughter are now estranged, of course, but that was not the case in 2015. Mom says the daughter needs mental help. If this happened in Athens there would be many wondering aloud why the mother’s comments wouldnt carry more weight. They would say not only did the police not press charges, her OWN MOTHER doesnt believe her.

    So did Meyer choose to believe Hernandez when police told him Hernandez was a suspect in a double shooting and refused to cooperate ? Meyer not only did nothing, when asked whether he thought back to that case after Hernandez was arrested for another murder his reply was something like, no, not till 2 days ago, why should I have ?
    He has a history of allowing thugs to operate within his programs with seeming impunity.
    The mother of Smith's wife also sent texts in the past where she showed full support for her daughter. Who knows what kind of drama is behind her turning on her daughter.

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  • BobcatGradBobcatGrad Posts: 1,593 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Since 2012, Ohio $tate fans including my brother-in-law (God love him) have been busy deleting deleting texts, emails and message board threads about "What a Fill In the Blank" Urban was during his Florida days.

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  • milldawg007milldawg007 Posts: 34 ✭✭ Sophomore

    This is horrible PR for the program. OSU is bigger than CUM just as UGA is bigger than Kirby. This is going to be awful PR all season, and recruiting will suffer due to this bad PR.

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  • BankwalkerBankwalker Posts: 5,348 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    ‘

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @MinnesotaDawg said:
    At this point, it's very hard to understand how people can defend Meyer or the university for defending him. The pyramid of lies and excuses is so overwhelming...the excuses are so blatantly flimsy and false....that those that still claim that they don't understand what he did wrong are being intellectually dishonest themselves.

    I think it is because a good many OSU fans and others are placing a lot of weight on the comments made by the mother of Courtney Smith. When the mother of the victim says she wasnt really abused then there will be some who believe her, especially when it suits their favored narrative. I read an article this morning suggesting the reason Meyer didnt apologize to Courtney Smith is because he possibly doesnt believe her. There was info put out that Shelley Meyer was also skeptical, fwiw. Given the minor punishment by OSU, it seems fair to wonder if perhaps others in the room didnt share those same feelings. The mother said this was about her daughter seeking revenge (for infidelity). The mother and daughter are now estranged, of course, but that was not the case in 2015. Mom says the daughter needs mental help. If this happened in Athens there would be many wondering aloud why the mother’s comments wouldnt carry more weight. They would say not only did the police not press charges, her OWN MOTHER doesnt believe her.

    So did Meyer choose to believe Hernandez when police told him Hernandez was a suspect in a double shooting and refused to cooperate ? Meyer not only did nothing, when asked whether he thought back to that case after Hernandez was arrested for another murder his reply was something like, no, not till 2 days ago, why should I have ?
    He has a history of allowing thugs to operate within his programs with seeming impunity.
    The mother of Smith's wife also sent texts in the past where she showed full support for her daughter. Who knows what kind of drama is behind her turning on her daughter.

    Hernandez is a different and totally unrelated topic. I can't speak to why Urban Meyer does things. I was only addressing why I believe OSU fans want to believe certain narratives. Certainly the mother/daughter thing is a crap store. The mother denies the text messages are legit, claiming she also does not remember them. Those text messages have not been validated as legitimate, to my knowledge.

    I heard an OSU fan call in to ESPNU last night on SiriusXM. He spoke to my point above, and referenced the pictures Courtney Smith released. He was definitely one of the skeptics I mention above. He said the arm looked like a hand squeeze one might make if you were trying to keep someone off of you or get them away, and that the neck was clearly not from being choked and didn't look like someone had hit her. He said, "I'm not impressed by those pictures. If that's the worst you can come up with after so many years of alleged abuse then you have to wonder." The hosts obviously slammed him for victim shaming, but he did get me to think about the fact I've been slapped, punched, and even choked. I do sort of know what those types of injuries looked like. (Disclaimer: No I'm not in to S&M or other violent sex play, but I was taught that fighting on the playground was sometimes necessary, and later joined a fraternity :blush: )

    I you think about it, the length of the suspension is what one might expect if a coach got caught making false statements to the media, and not what you would expect for a cover up of the sort that was reported. I am just not surprised that a CFB fanbase would remain loyal to a successful HC through about anything.

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