So Meyer has significant memory loss

MinnesotaDawg

@BoulderDawg said:
Mark Furhman took the fifth amendment in a court of law when asked if he had any involvement.......That's a little more then saying the N word

Are you serious? I'm not going down that rabbit hole, but you've missed the point.

It's a classic lawyers' trick. The tactic of compartmentalizing a single piece of disputed or controversial information with respect to a much larger and straight-forward situation. Then expanding the importance or relevance of that piece of information out of proportion to all the other established evidence....because it's one of the few things that you can actually dispute. It's just another form of misdirection....in an attempt to fool people into doubting undisputed facts and the larger truth.

It's what OSU fans are doing in this case. Amusingly, it's what Bankwalker is doing by focusing on the "mother's comment" re the disputed DV allegation instead of the numerous instances of deception, omission, and cover-up that Meyer has been found to have done. Even if some piece of exculpatory evidence comes to light in the DV case in favor of Zach Smith (I'm not holding my breath)....it will not exonerate Meyer's conduct as described in the investigation report. None of Meyer's misdeeds in that report were contingent upon Zach Smith's guilt or innocence in the DV allegation.

Bankwalker

@MinnesotaDawg said:

@MinnesotaDawg said:

@Bankwalker said:

@MinnesotaDawg said:

@Bankwalker said:

@MinnesotaDawg said:
At this point, it's very hard to understand how people can defend Meyer or the university

Any response to the other 90% of my post?

No, I have absolutely nothing to say about the other 90% of your post. It was a waste of your time to type it out. You led off by saying it’s very hard to understand how people can defend Meyer or the University. I gave a simple response as to why the OSU people are continuing to do so, which is different from me saying I believe those things. . I didn’t have to read very far in to the novel that you had written to realize that you were going over the pyramid of evidence against urban Meyer, trying to argue that case with me. I stopped reading when I realized you were trying to change what I had said. Copy your post and save it for an OSU fan, because you make valid points.

Bankwalker

@MinnesotaDawg said:

@BoulderDawg said:
Mark Furhman took the fifth amendment in a court of law when asked if he had any involvement.......That's a little more then saying the N word

Are you serious? I'm not going down that rabbit hole, but you've missed the point.

It's a classic lawyers' trick. The tactic of compartmentalizing a single piece of disputed or controversial information with respect to a much larger and straight-forward situation. Then expanding the importance or relevance of that piece of information out of proportion to all the other established evidence....because it's one of the few things that you can actually dispute. It's just another form of misdirection....in an attempt to fool people into doubting undisputed facts and the larger truth.

It's what OSU fans are doing in this case. Amusingly, it's what Bankwalker is doing by focusing on the "mother's comment"

You are exhibiting a 7th grade reading level. Im not focusing on anything. OSU fans are focusing on it, and if this happened in Athens the same would be true of a great many loyal Dawg fans. You said you didnt understand. I simply gave you THEIR perspective, not my own.

Bankwalker

Here ya go. I shouldnt have to point this out to you but try to remember someone else wrote this, not me.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thespun.com/college-football/urban-meyer-not-believe-courtney-smith/amp

orlando

Meyer protected his boy, OSU protected theirs. Karma is a beyotch and he’ll get his so let’s move on.

MinnesotaDawg

@Bankwalker said:

@MinnesotaDawg said:

@BoulderDawg said:
Mark Furhman took the fifth amendment in a court of law when asked if he had any involvement.......That's a little more then saying the N word

Are you serious? I'm not going down that rabbit hole, but you've missed the point.

It's a classic lawyers' trick. The tactic of compartmentalizing a single piece of disputed or controversial information with respect to a much larger and straight-forward situation. Then expanding the importance or relevance of that piece of information out of proportion to all the other established evidence....because it's one of the few things that you can actually dispute. It's just another form of misdirection....in an attempt to fool people into doubting undisputed facts and the larger truth.

It's what OSU fans are doing in this case. Amusingly, it's what Bankwalker is doing by focusing on the "mother's comment"

You are exhibiting a 7th grade reading level. Im not focusing on anything. OSU fans are focusing on it, and if this happened in Athens the same would be true of a great many loyal Dawg fans. You said you didnt understand. I simply gave you THEIR perspective, not my own.

Oh, ok. Is that like "I have a "friend" that has a problem..." I think that you previously noted having a personal history with abuse allegations that you feel were unwarranted or unjust, and that is coloring your own perspective. Understandable.

I stand by my original point that it's intellectually dishonest for a person who's read the report to claim lack of understanding or confusion about Meyer's punishment. It's fully described by Ohio State's own investigators in the factual findings. Have you read it? Maybe you don't like to read, as my "novel" was too much for you. But if you're going to jump into the conversation, perhaps you should have a baseline knowledge of the discussion points.

WCDawg

@BoulderDawg said:
Mark Furhman took the fifth amendment in a court of law when asked if he had any involvement.......That's a little more then saying the N word

Furhman was a dishonest fool, OJ Simpson cut off his wife's head, both are true.

WCDawg

@orlando said:
Meyer protected his boy, OSU protected theirs. Karma is a beyotch and he’ll get his so let’s move on.

Crap walks away clean in this life more than we like to admit. The dishonest from cheats to true sociopaths see this clearer than most honest people. We have a POTUS who thrives on this truth.

FirePlugDawg

@MinnesotaDawg said:

@Bankwalker said:

@MinnesotaDawg said:
At this point, it's very hard to understand how people can defend Meyer or the university for defending him. The pyramid of lies and excuses is so overwhelming...the excuses are so blatantly flimsy and false....that those that still claim that they don't understand what he did wrong are being intellectually dishonest themselves.

I think it is because a good many OSU fans and others are placing a lot of weight on the comments made by the mother of Courtney Smith. When the mother of the victim says she wasnt really abused then there will be some who believe her, especially when it suits their favored narrative. I read an article this morning suggesting the reason Meyer didnt apologize to Courtney Smith is because he possibly doesnt believe her. There was info put out that Shelley Meyer was also skeptical, fwiw. Given the minor punishment by OSU, it seems fair to wonder if perhaps others in the room didnt share those same feelings. The mother said this was about her daughter seeking revenge (for infidelity). The mother and daughter are now estranged, of course, but that was not the case in 2015. Mom says the daughter needs mental help. If this happened in Athens there would be many wondering aloud why the mother’s comments wouldnt carry more weight. They would say not only did the police not press charges, her OWN MOTHER doesnt believe her.

You got a link? I have no idea but my guess is that the reporter is a OSU guy or even the Number 1 OSU hack of all, Jeff Snook. He's the guy who wrote the initial Courtney "mother" story that all the OSU fans are hanging onto like a life boat. Snook is an OSU alum, personal friend of Meyer, and has written several books with Meyer. The health of the OSU program and Meyer's access to that program is Snook's gravy train. He is hardly objective. And I could see how a guilty mother, who failed to protect her daughter and might have even encouraged her to stay on with an abusive marriage for her own financial security just might not want to admit that Zach "intentionally" hurt her. How about "unintentionally"? Just like Meyer didn't intentionally lie.

But was Meyer really a good judge of whether or not these allegations were true? All it seems he did was to ask Zach Smith--who, of course, denied it. That was enough for Urban. That's Meyer's investigative MO. He takes "his guys" word for it, and that is the extent of Urban's truth-finding. Just as it was for his interactions with a number of bad character guys, like Hernandez, at UF. It's a self-serving approach for him and for them. Willful blindness.

BUT, as **** as the situation with Zach and Courtney Smith is....that's NOT why Meyer was suspended. Whether or not Urban or Gene Smith believed Zach Smith is beside the point. Here you go:

(1) Meyer failed to disclose the 2009 allegations to the AD when Smith was hired,
(2) He failed to disclose the 2009 allegation to Smith AGAIN when the 2015 allegations became known to Gene Smith,
(3) He failed to report the allegations to compliance staff as he was contractually REQUIRED to do,
(4) He LIED at Big Ten media day about his awareness of the allegation,
(5) He almost certainly destroyed evidence by deleting texts hours before the allegation,
(6) He LIED again in his Facebook statement in which he claimed to always "follow proper protocol" in his career and in this case. He very clearly did not as the investigation details, and finally
(7) He almost certainly lied to the investigators AGAIN in claiming that Courtney recanted the 2009 allegations to him (even Zach Smith denies this) AND in claiming that Shelly Meyer never shared any texts, pictures, allegations with him in 2015. This is almost literally incredible.

Those seven points don't rely on Zach Smith being guilty of DV against his wife. OSU fans seem to be intentionally blind to this fact because they have to be to continue to defend Meyer. They've lost all of their other defenses:

Meyer DIDN'T know!!! Oh ****, he did....well....
Meyer followed all the protocols!!! Oh ****, he didn't?.....well...
Courtney Smith is a bitter woman and is making it all up....

But if we're weighing the credibility of their stories, I'd believe Courtney Smith against the word of PROVEN LIARS Urban Meyer and Zach Smith every single time, unless I viewed some credible evidence to the contrary. Have you forgotten the Zach's response to Courtney's reminder that he choked and beat her??? "I'M SO SORRY!!!" Not something a wrongfully accused person would apologize for against a bitter wife!

To Meyer...

Bankwalker

@MinnesotaDawg said:

@Bankwalker said:

@MinnesotaDawg said:

@BoulderDawg said:
Mark Furhman took the fifth amendment in a court of law when asked if he had any involvement.......That's a little more then saying the N word

Are you serious? I'm not going down that rabbit hole, but you've missed the point.

It's a classic lawyers' trick. The tactic of compartmentalizing a single piece of disputed or controversial information with respect to a much larger and straight-forward situation. Then expanding the importance or relevance of that piece of information out of proportion to all the other established evidence....because it's one of the few things that you can actually dispute. It's just another form of misdirection....in an attempt to fool people into doubting undisputed facts and the larger truth.

It's what OSU fans are doing in this case. Amusingly, it's what Bankwalker is doing by focusing on the "mother's comment"

You are exhibiting a 7th grade reading level. Im not focusing on anything. OSU fans are focusing on it, and if this happened in Athens the same would be true of a great many loyal Dawg fans. You said you didnt understand. I simply gave you THEIR perspective, not my own.

Oh, ok. Is that like "I have a "friend" that has a problem..." I think that you previously noted having a personal history with abuse allegations that you feel were unwarranted or unjust, and that is coloring your own perspective. Understandable.

I stand by my original point that it's intellectually dishonest for a person who's read the report to claim lack of understanding or confusion about Meyer's punishment. It's fully described by Ohio State's own investigators in the factual findings. Have you read it? Maybe you don't like to read, as my "novel" was too much for you. But if you're going to jump into the conversation, perhaps you should have a baseline knowledge of the discussion points.

Sorry. Did you start this thread hoping for 15 people to say, "Agreed" and move on? This has nothing to do with me. I made a valid and accurate point regarding the thinking of OSU fans. I even said you made valid points. That wasnt enough for you? I dont understand your reason for being so emotional over having a different point of view presented. Some of you people....

levander

I don’t place more faith in the mother’s comments because 1.) she wasn’t there, 2.) although Meyers story earlier was “nothing happened,” not even OSU or Meyer is sticking by that story any more, and a lesser one for me is 3.) what was her motivation for talking to the media? Maybe if I were intimately involved somehow. But that’s the last thing I’d want to do in her case.

MinnesotaDawg

@levander said:
I don’t place more faith in the mother’s comments because 1.) she wasn’t there, 2.) although Meyers story earlier was “nothing happened,” not even OSU or Meyer is sticking by that story any more, and a lesser one for me is 3.) what was her motivation for talking to the media? Maybe if I were intimately involved somehow. But that’s the last thing I’d want to do in her case.

I know. The whole deal with the mother is a red herring, and in my opinion, part of an orchestrated attempt by Meyer's inner circle and OSU PR folks, including his hack ghost-writer Jeff Snook, to smear Courtney Smith. Other stories floated out there: she's insane; she's a drunk; she called the police 66 times over a year, she's vowed to take down the entire program!!... Interestingly, in the investigation report, when her version of events is pitted against Meyer's version of events, the investigators find Courtney Smith more credible.

But, again, this whole point is irrelevant with respect to the misdeeds for which Meyer is being suspended.

ghostofuga1

It's all pretty much moot at this point unless the NCAA has any interest.....which is very doubtful.

ghostofuga1

Ouch!!
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/column-urban-liar-perfect-symbol-college-athletics-211938391--ncaaf.html