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Well we starting calling OSU ...Tattoo U after the Jim Tressel debacle ....looks like we can continue to use that name. Just has a different meaning now. This plays like a Greek tragedy.
That is the part of this thing I'm not understanding--the reported arrest. If the police were called when abuse occurred--could they not press charges with our without the victim's doing so? According to a blogger on a website (not the best way to get legal info) the state can and does prosecute with or without the victim. If this is true--are the police culpable in this situation as well?
I think you are right about the reason Urban Liar wasn't fired. What I've been trying to wrap my head around is why, if there was an arrest, why wasn't there enough evidence to fire? To me an arrest after police went to the home and observed the fresh bruises makes the Urban Liar's sins that much worse. If there was an arrest, why didn't the state prosecute without the victim's pressing charges?
I know I'm treading dangerously here but hearing the investigation report and then the conclusion reminded so much of the Comey report about Clinton's emails/server scandal. Phrases like "poor judgement" and "a reasonable person would have known better" thrown around. Then when you get to the end of the report - recommendation for consequences? Nah, not really...
It’s probably best to keep politics out of the forum.
You're right. Is why I prefaced my comment. Just felt like some striking similarities. Totally agree with you @Reeldawg .
I dont think so Hopefully this doesn't go back down the rabbit hole and is a little bit off topic for this thread, but one issue with this entire thing is that people are pretending to possess all of the facts. Pictures of one person does not come close to telling the story. When the police get to a DV situation they look at all parties involved, and if it appears both parties are responsible or it is not clear what has unfolded they do one of two things. They either arrest both, or do nothing. Squeeze marks on someone's arm could easily be interpreted and claimed as defensive. We already know Zach Smith made that claim. The police have to deal with this type of situation every day and are pretty well acquainted with what type of situation is serious vs what is not, so I would tend to defer to their judgement over that of the mob, whose opinion has been largely formed entirely by one picture. There was apparently an extramarital affair involved with this situation, which obviously causes emotions to run extremely high
Ok, well you guys should read the report. Even with the whitewash and even if you believe everything that Meyer claims (they expressly do not), they concluded that he violated his contract. Instead of suspending him without pay, they could have fired him. No question.The rationale (for Gene Smith, too) is failure to follow protocol in response to the allegation.
In addition, the report itself suggests that if they pursued any of the following, that Meyer could be fired for: (1) Lying to the media at Big Ten media day (2) Failing to tell Gene Smith about Zach Smith's past at his hire and throughout the Zach Smith drama-filled OSU career (3) destroying evidence in immediate advance of investigation and (4) Lying to the investigators (they explicit note that they didn't believe key parts of his self-serving story).
You'll note that ALL of this separate and apart from whether the police decided to pursue charges against Zach Smith with respect to the allegations of spousal abuse. Personally, I find that most of the hypothetical, "what if"/"does this mean..." scenarios that people bring up as complicating factors (as you describe) above simply do not apply in this situation. Bottom line is that Meyer DID have a contractual obligation to report findings to compliance staff who could have made an independent determination what the appropriate next course would have been (investigation, further questioning, history of allegations, actually talking to victim). Instead, a biased and self-serving Meyer (along with Smith) erroneously decided to keep the info (and his knowledge of Smith's history) to himself.
It wasn't a political statement, just a comparison of two legal cases. And he is correct in his analysis. The "fact finders" found lots of errors, mistakes, and poor judgement...yet in the end chose to do nothing about it.
I wonder if the board will mandate that Liar have his contract amended to include this: "We really mean it next time. Ya hear?"
@MinnesotaDawg -- actually, I'm not wondering why Meyer should be fired. I want to know why Smith wasn't prosecuted if there was an arrest for domestic violence. My question is more about whether police/DA were complicit. My underlying concern is the police arrest and then prosecution is a safety net for the victim.
Did you see his response when asked to address the victim (Courtney Smith)? It was utterly disgraceful. Only thing worse was the statement Zach Smith’s attorney prepared for him that night. I would like to think there’s more dirt out there that someone will release. They were just waiting to see if the University was prepared to do the right thing. Either that or the feds take a look. Destroying evidence is a serious issue
My response was mostly to @Bankwalker re his opinion of whether they could have fired him for cause. His opinion was to doubt that they could and would have had to eat the money if they made an "ethical" determination to fire him.
As your question re Powell police: In a nutshell, we don't know because the Powell police refuses to release the police report and any of the evidence they collected. Why? First, they argued that it was still an open investigation (3 years later). When that rationale was shredded, there new rationale is that the report would reveal the name of the "uncharged suspect"...as if we didn't already know. Lawyers in this area dismiss such an argument because such reports are commonly released with redactions, if necessary. Anyway, at this point, records are still secret.
Other suspicious factors:
The only thing that was released was the cover page to the reports...and this page indicated that Zach Smith was arrested in 2015. AFTER the story by McMurphy, the Powell police chief edited the cover page, saying that the arrest notification was a clerical error. Umm, ok.
Why wasn't Smith charged (or arrested)? I will do my best to provide facts only without commentary (even though I have plenty):
Powell police chief first said that he consulted with prosecutor's office and they decided not to pursue charges. When prosecutors office was asked why, they said they only make such determinations in felony cases. This was not a felony case because in Ohio, DV is only a felony if (1) there was a previous arrest/conviction in state for DV or (2) alleged victim was pregnant. So prosecutor could not legally pursue felony here. Prosecutor did not know why police chief did not pursue misdemeanor instead. In response to this new understanding, police chief said he couldn't respond, but generally they weigh the evidence. For the record, city spokesman stated that suspect “was investigated and believed to have committed an offense".....and didn't know why arrest/charges did not follow.
Also, Powell police chief claimed that he never "officially" talked to Urban Meyer about investigation. Leaving the question about unofficial conversations unanswered. And now, according to the Investigation Report, Shelly Meyer admits to being in contact with the Powell police throughout the investigation.
I'm sure it's coming.
I know. As if we didn't already know...the press conference further revealed Meyer as an uncaring, fraudulent, piece of trash. His dead-eyed, robotic, non-human statement made it clear that he still doesn't think he did anything wrong and makes me wonder whether he has legitimate psychopathic tendencies. I think he truly believes his own lies. He only has sympathy or compassion when talking about himself.
https://247sports.com/Article/Urban-Meyer-Ohio-State-Deleted-text-messages-remain-in-question-121072641/
I work in the data forensics field. (Sorry for the length...) Here’s what’s likely: (1) It sounds like Meyer used a scrubbing program to delete the messages from at least his own phone. However, at least one other person would have been receiving them and would have to also have used deletion software. So, maybe the second person would have the other copies. There’s also a likely “everyone delete this stuff” call that went out. (2) Phones are backed up on networks, and it’s likely OSU would have a copy of the messages in an archive. It’s also possible he plugged his phone in to his personal computer (for music or to charge), and copies reside there. (3) Deleted text messages (if not found through 1 or 2 above) could be recovered, probably in-part, but it depends on how thoroughly they were erased. (4) Meyer’s timing of the deletions would correspond to his knowledge of the investigation’s targeting of the messages. That says a lot of he destroyed it around that time. In a criminal or civil case, that would be illegal or considered purposeful spoliation (like shredding documents). However, this was an internal investigation, so the “judge” is OSU, and it’s likely someone told him to do it or helped him so they couldn’t find anything. There’s no one to punish him for it if OSU would rather not judge him. There may be some kind of open records issue, but it likely doesn’t cover 1+ year old text messages.
Good info. And I think your conclusion is right on. If this whole episode has proven anything, it's that Urban Meyer is the boss of the school. Just like former OSU president Gordan Gee "joked": "Let me be very clear. I'm just hopeful the coach doesn't dismiss me!" So, short of Meyer calling for reinvestigation into his own actions, nothing likely to happen with the texts on OSU's side.
Now it's all about image rehab for Meyer at OSU. No doubt, there is a team in place to craft this new story. I'm surprised it hasn't already happened, but my prediction is that one of the next steps is for the OSU, Gene Smith, and Meyer personally to throw money at a non-profit dedicated to domestic abuse issues. This will be greatly applauded by the likes of Kirk Herbstreit, who I've lost any remaining respect for in the past week. His response to this whole episode ("confused" at findings, "happy to see" Meyer keep job, glad about "closure") was pathetic. Pretty obvious that any sense of objectivity is trumped by Herbstreit's friendship with Meyer and relationship with Ohio State. So just say so, and spare us your mealy-mouth garbage.
It all stinks. That is a messed up law in Ohio. Apart from that--it has always seemed wrong that there was never an arrest. Always felt the police were not doing their job.
I lost all respect for Herbstreit when he used his ESPN bully pulpit to personally lobby for Ohio State to get into the “playoffs” and simultaneously did all he could to discredit Baylor and TCU. The fact that the four letter network allowed him to do so on multiple platforms - including while commentating on games - mean that they are worse! With that being said, I’m not surprised about Herbe’s take on this thing. He’s a deep throated homer.