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Very Interesting Article And A Great Chance To Argue

donmdonm Posts: 8,558 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
edited January 13 in General

Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

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Comments

  • MeR3htidMeR3htid Posts: 1,790 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    If a team had a top 3 of Prime Randy Johnson, Prime Clayton Kershaw, and prime Pedro Martinez and they were the nucleus of your pitching staff for 10 years. 10 prime years with those 3. How many World Series do you win?

  • texdawgtexdawg Posts: 806 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @donm said:
    Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

    https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

    Thanks for posting article. Unfortunately I wasn't able to open it because I need to subscribe to the AJC.

    I have a 6'5" fourteen year old who is a very good pitcher. There is so much conflicting information out there about the best way to develop young pitchers that it's difficult to know what is right.

    How often they should throw, how long should they be shut down or should they even be shut down, and when they should start throwing breaking balls and how often.

    We have decided to be very conservative with my son and we shut him down for long periods of time and limit how many breaking pitches he throws - and he didn't learn the breaking pitch until he was 13. Don't know if that is the right way or not. But I'm confident that over using a 14 year old boy to help win major or AAA tournaments isn't in their best interest.

    I don't know the right answer but I do know there are a whole lot more arm injuries now than there used to be.

  • BankwalkerBankwalker Posts: 2,927 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @texdawg said:

    @donm said:
    Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

    https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

    Thanks for posting article. Unfortunately I wasn't able to open it because I need to subscribe to the AJC.

    I have a 6'5" fourteen year old who is a very good pitcher. There is so much conflicting information out there about the best way to develop young pitchers that it's difficult to know what is right.

    How often they should throw, how long should they be shut down or should they even be shut down, and when they should start throwing breaking balls and how often.

    We have decided to be very conservative with my son and we shut him down for long periods of time and limit how many breaking pitches he throws - and he didn't learn the breaking pitch until he was 13. Don't know if that is the right way or not. But I'm confident that over using a 14 year old boy to help win major or AAA tournaments isn't in their best interest.

    I don't know the right answer but I do know there are a whole lot more arm injuries now than there used to be.

    I dont understand having kids play 50 games. Even some 8 year olds play that much on travel teams. It cannot be good. When you visit the sports medicine doctors the room is actually full of people with gray hair rather than athletes. The doctors explain that rotator cuff injuries are from use and just wearing down over time, so yeah - over use at such a young age is going to lead to more arm and shoulder injuries. It should be a “well, duh” moment for parents to think about before they let their kid pitch in so many games, much less throw a breaking ball.

  • texdawgtexdawg Posts: 806 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @Bankwalker said:

    @texdawg said:

    @donm said:
    Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

    https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

    Thanks for posting article. Unfortunately I wasn't able to open it because I need to subscribe to the AJC.

    I have a 6'5" fourteen year old who is a very good pitcher. There is so much conflicting information out there about the best way to develop young pitchers that it's difficult to know what is right.

    How often they should throw, how long should they be shut down or should they even be shut down, and when they should start throwing breaking balls and how often.

    We have decided to be very conservative with my son and we shut him down for long periods of time and limit how many breaking pitches he throws - and he didn't learn the breaking pitch until he was 13. Don't know if that is the right way or not. But I'm confident that over using a 14 year old boy to help win major or AAA tournaments isn't in their best interest.

    I don't know the right answer but I do know there are a whole lot more arm injuries now than there used to be.

    I dont understand having kids play 50 games. Even some 8 year olds play that much on travel teams. It cannot be good. When you visit the sports medicine doctors the room is actually full of people with gray hair rather than athletes. The doctors explain that rotator cuff injuries are from use and just wearing down over time, so yeah - over use at such a young age is going to lead to more arm and shoulder injuries. It should be a “well, duh” moment for parents to think about before they let their kid pitch in so many games, much less throw a breaking ball.

    It really is unbelievable. My sophomore daughter came to me at the end of the summer and said she didn't want to play select softball anymore- she was tired of it. It hurt at first until I realized she was doing it for me. I felt like an a$$. So I'm both aware of the problem and part of the problem.

    Today is day one of school softball practice. I coach the high school team. This is the most excited my daughter has been to start a softball season because for the first time in 8 years she had a break. And she knows when the school season is over she'll have another long break.

    That makes me happy. On the other hand - I also know that she wouldn't have played as a freshman or earned all district as a freshman if she hadn't played so much in prior years.

    I don't know the right answer. But her being happy and enjoying it is very important to me.

  • Acrum21Acrum21 Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @texdawg said:

    @donm said:
    Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

    https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

    Thanks for posting article. Unfortunately I wasn't able to open it because I need to subscribe to the AJC.

    I have a 6'5" fourteen year old who is a very good pitcher. There is so much conflicting information out there about the best way to develop young pitchers that it's difficult to know what is right.

    How often they should throw, how long should they be shut down or should they even be shut down, and when they should start throwing breaking balls and how often.

    We have decided to be very conservative with my son and we shut him down for long periods of time and limit how many breaking pitches he throws - and he didn't learn the breaking pitch until he was 13. Don't know if that is the right way or not. But I'm confident that over using a 14 year old boy to help win major or AAA tournaments isn't in their best interest.

    I don't know the right answer but I do know there are a whole lot more arm injuries now than there used to be.

    Coming from someone who partially tore their UCL I can assure you you're doing the right thing! And I would tell you to be more afraid of lack of rest than throwing breaking pitches. I have pinpointed my injury to overexposure from about a 6 week stretch during my 17yo summer. Not sure if your son plays in other sports but I would also advise you to not let him specialize, play everything!

  • texdawgtexdawg Posts: 806 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @Acrum21 said:

    @texdawg said:

    @donm said:
    Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

    https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

    Thanks for posting article. Unfortunately I wasn't able to open it because I need to subscribe to the AJC.

    I have a 6'5" fourteen year old who is a very good pitcher. There is so much conflicting information out there about the best way to develop young pitchers that it's difficult to know what is right.

    How often they should throw, how long should they be shut down or should they even be shut down, and when they should start throwing breaking balls and how often.

    We have decided to be very conservative with my son and we shut him down for long periods of time and limit how many breaking pitches he throws - and he didn't learn the breaking pitch until he was 13. Don't know if that is the right way or not. But I'm confident that over using a 14 year old boy to help win major or AAA tournaments isn't in their best interest.

    I don't know the right answer but I do know there are a whole lot more arm injuries now than there used to be.

    Coming from someone who partially tore their UCL I can assure you you're doing the right thing! And I would tell you to be more afraid of lack of rest than throwing breaking pitches. I have pinpointed my injury to overexposure from about a 6 week stretch during my 17yo summer. Not sure if your son plays in other sports but I would also advise you to not let him specialize, play everything!

    Great advice. He also plays football and basketball and will probably play all three through high school.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 12,634 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @texdawg said:

    @donm said:
    Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

    https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

    Thanks for posting article. Unfortunately I wasn't able to open it because I need to subscribe to the AJC.

    I have a 6'5" fourteen year old who is a very good pitcher. There is so much conflicting information out there about the best way to develop young pitchers that it's difficult to know what is right.

    How often they should throw, how long should they be shut down or should they even be shut down, and when they should start throwing breaking balls and how often.

    We have decided to be very conservative with my son and we shut him down for long periods of time and limit how many breaking pitches he throws - and he didn't learn the breaking pitch until he was 13. Don't know if that is the right way or not. But I'm confident that over using a 14 year old boy to help win major or AAA tournaments isn't in their best interest.

    I don't know the right answer but I do know there are a whole lot more arm injuries now than there used to be.

    Just a few years ago the notion that having Tommy John surgery was actually good for a pitcher had gained popularity.
    Now research makes it clear having 1 surgery doubles the chances you'll need a second surgery. I'm with those who limit a young person's innings and use of the most damaging pitches. Tommy John surgery has been around a long time, yet there still isn't a single pitcher who had it in The HOF.

  • BankwalkerBankwalker Posts: 2,927 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited January 14

    @WCDawg said:

    @texdawg said:

    @donm said:
    Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

    https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

    Thanks for posting article. Unfortunately I wasn't able to open it because I need to subscribe to the AJC.

    I have a 6'5" fourteen year old who is a very good pitcher. There is so much conflicting information out there about the best way to develop young pitchers that it's difficult to know what is right.

    How often they should throw, how long should they be shut down or should they even be shut down, and when they should start throwing breaking balls and how often.

    We have decided to be very conservative with my son and we shut him down for long periods of time and limit how many breaking pitches he throws - and he didn't learn the breaking pitch until he was 13. Don't know if that is the right way or not. But I'm confident that over using a 14 year old boy to help win major or AAA tournaments isn't in their best interest.

    I don't know the right answer but I do know there are a whole lot more arm injuries now than there used to be.

    Just a few years ago the notion that having Tommy John surgery was actually good for a pitcher had gained popularity.
    Now research makes it clear having 1 surgery doubles the chances you'll need a second surgery. I'm with those who limit a young person's innings and use of the most damaging pitches. Tommy John surgery has been around a long time, yet there still isn't a single pitcher who had it in The HOF.

    Wrong, but you will probably still argue otherwise.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2015/07/08/john-smoltz-hall-of-fame-tommy-john-surgery/29874857/

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 12,634 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited January 14

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @texdawg said:

    @donm said:
    Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

    https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

    Thanks for posting article. Unfortunately I wasn't able to open it because I need to subscribe to the AJC.

    I have a 6'5" fourteen year old who is a very good pitcher. There is so much conflicting information out there about the best way to develop young pitchers that it's difficult to know what is right.

    How often they should throw, how long should they be shut down or should they even be shut down, and when they should start throwing breaking balls and how often.

    We have decided to be very conservative with my son and we shut him down for long periods of time and limit how many breaking pitches he throws - and he didn't learn the breaking pitch until he was 13. Don't know if that is the right way or not. But I'm confident that over using a 14 year old boy to help win major or AAA tournaments isn't in their best interest.

    I don't know the right answer but I do know there are a whole lot more arm injuries now than there used to be.

    Just a few years ago the notion that having Tommy John surgery was actually good for a pitcher had gained popularity.
    Now research makes it clear having 1 surgery doubles the chances you'll need a second surgery. I'm with those who limit a young person's innings and use of the most damaging pitches. Tommy John surgery has been around a long time, yet there still isn't a single pitcher who had it in The HOF.

    Wrong, but you will probably still argue otherwise.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2015/07/08/john-smoltz-hall-of-fame-tommy-john-surgery/29874857/

    Me argue, you're clearly being your usual dic self. I'm guessing whoever wrote the article I read meant players who had TJ early in their careers, or perhaps it was about starting pitchers.

  • Acrum21Acrum21 Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @texdawg said:

    @Acrum21 said:

    @texdawg said:

    @donm said:
    Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

    https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

    Thanks for posting article. Unfortunately I wasn't able to open it because I need to subscribe to the AJC.

    I have a 6'5" fourteen year old who is a very good pitcher. There is so much conflicting information out there about the best way to develop young pitchers that it's difficult to know what is right.

    How often they should throw, how long should they be shut down or should they even be shut down, and when they should start throwing breaking balls and how often.

    We have decided to be very conservative with my son and we shut him down for long periods of time and limit how many breaking pitches he throws - and he didn't learn the breaking pitch until he was 13. Don't know if that is the right way or not. But I'm confident that over using a 14 year old boy to help win major or AAA tournaments isn't in their best interest.

    I don't know the right answer but I do know there are a whole lot more arm injuries now than there used to be.

    Coming from someone who partially tore their UCL I can assure you you're doing the right thing! And I would tell you to be more afraid of lack of rest than throwing breaking pitches. I have pinpointed my injury to overexposure from about a 6 week stretch during my 17yo summer. Not sure if your son plays in other sports but I would also advise you to not let him specialize, play everything!

    Great advice. He also plays football and basketball and will probably play all three through high school.

    Sounds like a stud!

  • texdawgtexdawg Posts: 806 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @texdawg said:

    @donm said:
    Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

    https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

    Thanks for posting article. Unfortunately I wasn't able to open it because I need to subscribe to the AJC.

    I have a 6'5" fourteen year old who is a very good pitcher. There is so much conflicting information out there about the best way to develop young pitchers that it's difficult to know what is right.

    How often they should throw, how long should they be shut down or should they even be shut down, and when they should start throwing breaking balls and how often.

    We have decided to be very conservative with my son and we shut him down for long periods of time and limit how many breaking pitches he throws - and he didn't learn the breaking pitch until he was 13. Don't know if that is the right way or not. But I'm confident that over using a 14 year old boy to help win major or AAA tournaments isn't in their best interest.

    I don't know the right answer but I do know there are a whole lot more arm injuries now than there used to be.

    Just a few years ago the notion that having Tommy John surgery was actually good for a pitcher had gained popularity.
    Now research makes it clear having 1 surgery doubles the chances you'll need a second surgery. I'm with those who limit a young person's innings and use of the most damaging pitches. Tommy John surgery has been around a long time, yet there still isn't a single pitcher who had it in The HOF.

    Wrong, but you will probably still argue otherwise.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2015/07/08/john-smoltz-hall-of-fame-tommy-john-surgery/29874857/

    Great find. I've actually read that article and I believe Smoltz makes more sense than most.

    I absolutely agree that the biggest problem is that kids are throwing way too hard. My son has great velocity but he doesn't throw hard. He is 6'5" but his legs are so long even at that height (38" inseam with jeans). His stride is long and his mechanics are good.

    We play against pitchers that are much smaller and throwing with everything they have. They throw hard but you can't help but wonder at what cost.

  • BankwalkerBankwalker Posts: 2,927 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited January 14

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @texdawg said:

    @donm said:
    Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

    https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

    Thanks for posting article. Unfortunately I wasn't able to open it because I need to subscribe to the AJC.

    I have a 6'5" fourteen year old who is a very good pitcher. There is so much conflicting information out there about the best way to develop young pitchers that it's difficult to know what is right.

    How often they should throw, how long should they be shut down or should they even be shut down, and when they should start throwing breaking balls and how often.

    We have decided to be very conservative with my son and we shut him down for long periods of time and limit how many breaking pitches he throws - and he didn't learn the breaking pitch until he was 13. Don't know if that is the right way or not. But I'm confident that over using a 14 year old boy to help win major or AAA tournaments isn't in their best interest.

    I don't know the right answer but I do know there are a whole lot more arm injuries now than there used to be.

    Just a few years ago the notion that having Tommy John surgery was actually good for a pitcher had gained popularity.
    Now research makes it clear having 1 surgery doubles the chances you'll need a second surgery. I'm with those who limit a young person's innings and use of the most damaging pitches. Tommy John surgery has been around a long time, yet there still isn't a single pitcher who had it in The HOF.

    Wrong, but you will probably still argue otherwise.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2015/07/08/john-smoltz-hall-of-fame-tommy-john-surgery/29874857/

    Me argue, you're clearly being your usual dic self. I'm guessing whoever wrote the article I read meant players who had TJ early in their careers, or perhaps it was about starting pitchers.

    Or written prior to 2015. Smoltz is the one and only, so the point you were making is still valid - and we now have a documented case where you were 100% wrong about something

    On this day in history....

  • texdawgtexdawg Posts: 806 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @Acrum21 said:

    @texdawg said:

    @Acrum21 said:

    @texdawg said:

    @donm said:
    Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

    https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

    Thanks for posting article. Unfortunately I wasn't able to open it because I need to subscribe to the AJC.

    I have a 6'5" fourteen year old who is a very good pitcher. There is so much conflicting information out there about the best way to develop young pitchers that it's difficult to know what is right.

    How often they should throw, how long should they be shut down or should they even be shut down, and when they should start throwing breaking balls and how often.

    We have decided to be very conservative with my son and we shut him down for long periods of time and limit how many breaking pitches he throws - and he didn't learn the breaking pitch until he was 13. Don't know if that is the right way or not. But I'm confident that over using a 14 year old boy to help win major or AAA tournaments isn't in their best interest.

    I don't know the right answer but I do know there are a whole lot more arm injuries now than there used to be.

    Coming from someone who partially tore their UCL I can assure you you're doing the right thing! And I would tell you to be more afraid of lack of rest than throwing breaking pitches. I have pinpointed my injury to overexposure from about a 6 week stretch during my 17yo summer. Not sure if your son plays in other sports but I would also advise you to not let him specialize, play everything!

    Great advice. He also plays football and basketball and will probably play all three through high school.

    Sounds like a stud!

    He's good at all - probably not great yet at any. If I can somehow convince him that he is not a stud he'll have a better chance of eventually making it in one of the sports.

    He is the best athlete at that size that I have ever coached. But I have coached countless kids that work harder and that could be his downfall.

    I have actually given up coaching football as of a couple weeks ago because he would have been in my position group next season and he needs to hear a different voice.

  • donmdonm Posts: 8,558 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @donm said:
    Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

    https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

    sorry for the misspelling in the title. Didn't know how to edit - the usual ic

    @texdawg said:

    @donm said:
    Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

    https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

    Thanks for posting article. Unfortunately I wasn't able to open it because I need to subscribe to the AJC.

    I have a 6'5" fourteen year old who is a very good pitcher. There is so much conflicting information out there about the best way to develop young pitchers that it's difficult to know what is right.

    How often they should throw, how long should they be shut down or should they even be shut down, and when they should start throwing breaking balls and how often.

    We have decided to be very conservative with my son and we shut him down for long periods of time and limit how many breaking pitches he throws - and he didn't learn the breaking pitch until he was 13. Don't know if that is the right way or not. But I'm confident that over using a 14 year old boy to help win major or AAA tournaments isn't in their best interest.

    I don't know the right answer but I do know there are a whole lot more arm injuries now than there used to be.

    Some things Leo Mazzone has said (not necessarily in the article)
    1. Avoid throwing as hard as possible every pitch. 85%-90% is hard enough.
    2. work on control.
    3. Play other sports for overall bodily development - weakness in body parts/sections causes one to over use other body parts to compensate - in pitchers it is often the arm that is used to compensate. Maybe I can find another way to present the article. I really thought it worth reading.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 12,634 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited January 14

    @texdawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @texdawg said:

    @donm said:
    Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

    https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

    Thanks for posting article. Unfortunately I wasn't able to open it because I need to subscribe to the AJC.

    I have a 6'5" fourteen year old who is a very good pitcher. There is so much conflicting information out there about the best way to develop young pitchers that it's difficult to know what is right.

    How often they should throw, how long should they be shut down or should they even be shut down, and when they should start throwing breaking balls and how often.

    We have decided to be very conservative with my son and we shut him down for long periods of time and limit how many breaking pitches he throws - and he didn't learn the breaking pitch until he was 13. Don't know if that is the right way or not. But I'm confident that over using a 14 year old boy to help win major or AAA tournaments isn't in their best interest.

    I don't know the right answer but I do know there are a whole lot more arm injuries now than there used to be.

    Just a few years ago the notion that having Tommy John surgery was actually good for a pitcher had gained popularity.
    Now research makes it clear having 1 surgery doubles the chances you'll need a second surgery. I'm with those who limit a young person's innings and use of the most damaging pitches. Tommy John surgery has been around a long time, yet there still isn't a single pitcher who had it in The HOF.

    Wrong, but you will probably still argue otherwise.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2015/07/08/john-smoltz-hall-of-fame-tommy-john-surgery/29874857/

    Great find. I've actually read that article and I believe Smoltz makes more sense than most.

    I absolutely agree that the biggest problem is that kids are throwing way too hard. My son has great velocity but he doesn't throw hard. He is 6'5" but his legs are so long even at that height (38" inseam with jeans). His stride is long and his mechanics are good.

    We play against pitchers that are much smaller and throwing with everything they have. They throw hard but you can't help but wonder at what cost.

    I reviewed a long list of pitchers who had TJS and the only pitcher I saw who had it and made The HOF is Smoltz.
    Billy Wagner probably should be in, but he had the surgery near the end of his career. There are a few position players in the HOF who had TJS though.
    Many who had it, Kerry Wood being a prime example never recovered fully. David Wells had it early in his career and had his seasons afterward. While not a HOF level pitcher, he was very good. He never had a big arm though, he used placement and smarts.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 12,634 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @texdawg said:

    @donm said:
    Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

    https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

    Thanks for posting article. Unfortunately I wasn't able to open it because I need to subscribe to the AJC.

    I have a 6'5" fourteen year old who is a very good pitcher. There is so much conflicting information out there about the best way to develop young pitchers that it's difficult to know what is right.

    How often they should throw, how long should they be shut down or should they even be shut down, and when they should start throwing breaking balls and how often.

    We have decided to be very conservative with my son and we shut him down for long periods of time and limit how many breaking pitches he throws - and he didn't learn the breaking pitch until he was 13. Don't know if that is the right way or not. But I'm confident that over using a 14 year old boy to help win major or AAA tournaments isn't in their best interest.

    I don't know the right answer but I do know there are a whole lot more arm injuries now than there used to be.

    Just a few years ago the notion that having Tommy John surgery was actually good for a pitcher had gained popularity.
    Now research makes it clear having 1 surgery doubles the chances you'll need a second surgery. I'm with those who limit a young person's innings and use of the most damaging pitches. Tommy John surgery has been around a long time, yet there still isn't a single pitcher who had it in The HOF.

    Wrong, but you will probably still argue otherwise.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2015/07/08/john-smoltz-hall-of-fame-tommy-john-surgery/29874857/

    Me argue, you're clearly being your usual dic self. I'm guessing whoever wrote the article I read meant players who had TJ early in their careers, or perhaps it was about starting pitchers.

    Or written prior to 2015. Smoltz is the one and only, so the point you were making is still valid - and we now a documented case where you were 100% wrong about something

    On this day in history....

    I'm so sick of your shiit, let's do each other mutual favors and stop conversing.

  • Acrum21Acrum21 Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @texdawg said:

    @Acrum21 said:

    @texdawg said:

    @Acrum21 said:

    @texdawg said:

    @donm said:
    Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

    https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

    Thanks for posting article. Unfortunately I wasn't able to open it because I need to subscribe to the AJC.

    I have a 6'5" fourteen year old who is a very good pitcher. There is so much conflicting information out there about the best way to develop young pitchers that it's difficult to know what is right.

    How often they should throw, how long should they be shut down or should they even be shut down, and when they should start throwing breaking balls and how often.

    We have decided to be very conservative with my son and we shut him down for long periods of time and limit how many breaking pitches he throws - and he didn't learn the breaking pitch until he was 13. Don't know if that is the right way or not. But I'm confident that over using a 14 year old boy to help win major or AAA tournaments isn't in their best interest.

    I don't know the right answer but I do know there are a whole lot more arm injuries now than there used to be.

    Coming from someone who partially tore their UCL I can assure you you're doing the right thing! And I would tell you to be more afraid of lack of rest than throwing breaking pitches. I have pinpointed my injury to overexposure from about a 6 week stretch during my 17yo summer. Not sure if your son plays in other sports but I would also advise you to not let him specialize, play everything!

    Great advice. He also plays football and basketball and will probably play all three through high school.

    Sounds like a stud!

    He's good at all - probably not great yet at any. If I can somehow convince him that he is not a stud he'll have a better chance of eventually making it in one of the sports.

    He is the best athlete at that size that I have ever coached. But I have coached countless kids that work harder and that could be his downfall.

    I have actually given up coaching football as of a couple weeks ago because he would have been in my position group next season and he needs to hear a different voice.

    Wow that a tough situation. I would just expose him to the highest levels of competition. Take him to those camps and let him find out there are other great athletes out there and a lot of them work very, very hard. Sounds like he needs some adversity but that's just form my limited POV obviously

  • texdawgtexdawg Posts: 806 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @Acrum21 said:

    @texdawg said:

    @Acrum21 said:

    @texdawg said:

    @Acrum21 said:

    @texdawg said:

    @donm said:
    Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

    https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

    Thanks for posting article. Unfortunately I wasn't able to open it because I need to subscribe to the AJC.

    I have a 6'5" fourteen year old who is a very good pitcher. There is so much conflicting information out there about the best way to develop young pitchers that it's difficult to know what is right.

    How often they should throw, how long should they be shut down or should they even be shut down, and when they should start throwing breaking balls and how often.

    We have decided to be very conservative with my son and we shut him down for long periods of time and limit how many breaking pitches he throws - and he didn't learn the breaking pitch until he was 13. Don't know if that is the right way or not. But I'm confident that over using a 14 year old boy to help win major or AAA tournaments isn't in their best interest.

    I don't know the right answer but I do know there are a whole lot more arm injuries now than there used to be.

    Coming from someone who partially tore their UCL I can assure you you're doing the right thing! And I would tell you to be more afraid of lack of rest than throwing breaking pitches. I have pinpointed my injury to overexposure from about a 6 week stretch during my 17yo summer. Not sure if your son plays in other sports but I would also advise you to not let him specialize, play everything!

    Great advice. He also plays football and basketball and will probably play all three through high school.

    Sounds like a stud!

    He's good at all - probably not great yet at any. If I can somehow convince him that he is not a stud he'll have a better chance of eventually making it in one of the sports.

    He is the best athlete at that size that I have ever coached. But I have coached countless kids that work harder and that could be his downfall.

    I have actually given up coaching football as of a couple weeks ago because he would have been in my position group next season and he needs to hear a different voice.

    Wow that a tough situation. I would just expose him to the highest levels of competition. Take him to those camps and let him find out there are other great athletes out there and a lot of them work very, very hard. Sounds like he needs some adversity but that's just form my limited POV obviously

    Yep. He's actually invited and probably attending the OU, TCU, A&M and Texas Tech camps this summer. There are other camps he may attend but want to avoid camps that don't identify the age of the player.

    He'll be fine. Just needs to get to high school where there are other big kids that can push him around.

    And I'll be honest, I'm probably especially hard on him. If you ask other coaches and parents they'll probably say he works as hard as anyone else.

  • Acrum21Acrum21 Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @texdawg said:

    @Acrum21 said:

    @texdawg said:

    @Acrum21 said:

    @texdawg said:

    @Acrum21 said:

    @texdawg said:

    @donm said:
    Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

    https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

    Thanks for posting article. Unfortunately I wasn't able to open it because I need to subscribe to the AJC.

    I have a 6'5" fourteen year old who is a very good pitcher. There is so much conflicting information out there about the best way to develop young pitchers that it's difficult to know what is right.

    How often they should throw, how long should they be shut down or should they even be shut down, and when they should start throwing breaking balls and how often.

    We have decided to be very conservative with my son and we shut him down for long periods of time and limit how many breaking pitches he throws - and he didn't learn the breaking pitch until he was 13. Don't know if that is the right way or not. But I'm confident that over using a 14 year old boy to help win major or AAA tournaments isn't in their best interest.

    I don't know the right answer but I do know there are a whole lot more arm injuries now than there used to be.

    Coming from someone who partially tore their UCL I can assure you you're doing the right thing! And I would tell you to be more afraid of lack of rest than throwing breaking pitches. I have pinpointed my injury to overexposure from about a 6 week stretch during my 17yo summer. Not sure if your son plays in other sports but I would also advise you to not let him specialize, play everything!

    Great advice. He also plays football and basketball and will probably play all three through high school.

    Sounds like a stud!

    He's good at all - probably not great yet at any. If I can somehow convince him that he is not a stud he'll have a better chance of eventually making it in one of the sports.

    He is the best athlete at that size that I have ever coached. But I have coached countless kids that work harder and that could be his downfall.

    I have actually given up coaching football as of a couple weeks ago because he would have been in my position group next season and he needs to hear a different voice.

    Wow that a tough situation. I would just expose him to the highest levels of competition. Take him to those camps and let him find out there are other great athletes out there and a lot of them work very, very hard. Sounds like he needs some adversity but that's just form my limited POV obviously

    Yep. He's actually invited and probably attending the OU, TCU, A&M and Texas Tech camps this summer. There are other camps he may attend but want to avoid camps that don't identify the age of the player.

    He'll be fine. Just needs to get to high school where there are other big kids that can push him around.

    And I'll be honest, I'm probably especially hard on him. If you ask other coaches and parents they'll probably say he works as hard as anyone else.

    I thought I saw you say somewhere else he's currently an OT or TE?

  • BankwalkerBankwalker Posts: 2,927 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @texdawg said:

    @donm said:
    Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

    https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

    Thanks for posting article. Unfortunately I wasn't able to open it because I need to subscribe to the AJC.

    I have a 6'5" fourteen year old who is a very good pitcher. There is so much conflicting information out there about the best way to develop young pitchers that it's difficult to know what is right.

    How often they should throw, how long should they be shut down or should they even be shut down, and when they should start throwing breaking balls and how often.

    We have decided to be very conservative with my son and we shut him down for long periods of time and limit how many breaking pitches he throws - and he didn't learn the breaking pitch until he was 13. Don't know if that is the right way or not. But I'm confident that over using a 14 year old boy to help win major or AAA tournaments isn't in their best interest.

    I don't know the right answer but I do know there are a whole lot more arm injuries now than there used to be.

    Just a few years ago the notion that having Tommy John surgery was actually good for a pitcher had gained popularity.
    Now research makes it clear having 1 surgery doubles the chances you'll need a second surgery. I'm with those who limit a young person's innings and use of the most damaging pitches. Tommy John surgery has been around a long time, yet there still isn't a single pitcher who had it in The HOF.

    Wrong, but you will probably still argue otherwise.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2015/07/08/john-smoltz-hall-of-fame-tommy-john-surgery/29874857/

    Me argue, you're clearly being your usual dic self. I'm guessing whoever wrote the article I read meant players who had TJ early in their careers, or perhaps it was about starting pitchers.

    Or written prior to 2015. Smoltz is the one and only, so the point you were making is still valid - and we now a documented case where you were 100% wrong about something

    On this day in history....

    I'm so sick of your shiit, let's do each other mutual favors and stop conversing.

    Blood in the water, folks.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 12,634 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @texdawg said:

    @donm said:
    Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

    https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

    Thanks for posting article. Unfortunately I wasn't able to open it because I need to subscribe to the AJC.

    I have a 6'5" fourteen year old who is a very good pitcher. There is so much conflicting information out there about the best way to develop young pitchers that it's difficult to know what is right.

    How often they should throw, how long should they be shut down or should they even be shut down, and when they should start throwing breaking balls and how often.

    We have decided to be very conservative with my son and we shut him down for long periods of time and limit how many breaking pitches he throws - and he didn't learn the breaking pitch until he was 13. Don't know if that is the right way or not. But I'm confident that over using a 14 year old boy to help win major or AAA tournaments isn't in their best interest.

    I don't know the right answer but I do know there are a whole lot more arm injuries now than there used to be.

    Just a few years ago the notion that having Tommy John surgery was actually good for a pitcher had gained popularity.
    Now research makes it clear having 1 surgery doubles the chances you'll need a second surgery. I'm with those who limit a young person's innings and use of the most damaging pitches. Tommy John surgery has been around a long time, yet there still isn't a single pitcher who had it in The HOF.

    Wrong, but you will probably still argue otherwise.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2015/07/08/john-smoltz-hall-of-fame-tommy-john-surgery/29874857/

    Me argue, you're clearly being your usual dic self. I'm guessing whoever wrote the article I read meant players who had TJ early in their careers, or perhaps it was about starting pitchers.

    Or written prior to 2015. Smoltz is the one and only, so the point you were making is still valid - and we now a documented case where you were 100% wrong about something

    On this day in history....

    I'm so sick of your shiit, let's do each other mutual favors and stop conversing.

    Blood in the water, folks.

    There I go again.

  • texdawgtexdawg Posts: 806 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited January 14

    Right now he is definitely a DE. He probably has the skill set to play TE but has been playing OT.

    Hopefully he develops into a TE. They are typically not as athletic as other positions - need great hands, size and fast enough. That fits him perfectly.

    He loves DE and hopefully has the athleticism to play it in high school - not to mention college. But he needs some physical maturation (he's only 14) to determine if he is able to play DE. He is VERY physical and that is a plus.

    I don't see the body type to be a D1 o-line recruit. He is about 220lbs but I don't see his body holding 280 plus pounds as a junior or senior in high school. Also, at that weight, it probably eliminates him from pitching.

    But he is not done growing so 6'6" - 6'8" could also change what position or sport he ultimately decides on.

  • texdawgtexdawg Posts: 806 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @Acrum21 said:

    @texdawg said:

    @Acrum21 said:

    @texdawg said:

    @Acrum21 said:

    @texdawg said:

    @Acrum21 said:

    @texdawg said:

    @donm said:
    Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

    https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

    Thanks for posting article. Unfortunately I wasn't able to open it because I need to subscribe to the AJC.

    I have a 6'5" fourteen year old who is a very good pitcher. There is so much conflicting information out there about the best way to develop young pitchers that it's difficult to know what is right.

    How often they should throw, how long should they be shut down or should they even be shut down, and when they should start throwing breaking balls and how often.

    We have decided to be very conservative with my son and we shut him down for long periods of time and limit how many breaking pitches he throws - and he didn't learn the breaking pitch until he was 13. Don't know if that is the right way or not. But I'm confident that over using a 14 year old boy to help win major or AAA tournaments isn't in their best interest.

    I don't know the right answer but I do know there are a whole lot more arm injuries now than there used to be.

    Coming from someone who partially tore their UCL I can assure you you're doing the right thing! And I would tell you to be more afraid of lack of rest than throwing breaking pitches. I have pinpointed my injury to overexposure from about a 6 week stretch during my 17yo summer. Not sure if your son plays in other sports but I would also advise you to not let him specialize, play everything!

    Great advice. He also plays football and basketball and will probably play all three through high school.

    Sounds like a stud!

    He's good at all - probably not great yet at any. If I can somehow convince him that he is not a stud he'll have a better chance of eventually making it in one of the sports.

    He is the best athlete at that size that I have ever coached. But I have coached countless kids that work harder and that could be his downfall.

    I have actually given up coaching football as of a couple weeks ago because he would have been in my position group next season and he needs to hear a different voice.

    Wow that a tough situation. I would just expose him to the highest levels of competition. Take him to those camps and let him find out there are other great athletes out there and a lot of them work very, very hard. Sounds like he needs some adversity but that's just form my limited POV obviously

    Yep. He's actually invited and probably attending the OU, TCU, A&M and Texas Tech camps this summer. There are other camps he may attend but want to avoid camps that don't identify the age of the player.

    He'll be fine. Just needs to get to high school where there are other big kids that can push him around.

    And I'll be honest, I'm probably especially hard on him. If you ask other coaches and parents they'll probably say he works as hard as anyone else.

    I thought I saw you say somewhere else he's currently an OT or TE?

  • Acrum21Acrum21 Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @texdawg said:
    Right now he is definitely a DE. He probably has the skill set to play TE but has been playing OT.

    Hopefully he develops into a TE. They are typically not as athletic as other positions - need great hands, size and fast enough. That fits him perfectly.

    He loves DE and hopefully has the athleticism to play it in high school - not to mention college. But he needs some physical maturation (he's only 14) to determine if he is able to play DE. He is VERY physical and that is a plus.

    I don't see the body type to be a D1 o-line recruit. He is about 220lbs but I don't see his body holding 280 plus pounds as a junior or senior in high school. Also, at that weight, it probably eliminates him from pitching.

    But he is not done growing so 6'6" - 6'8" could also change what position or sport he ultimately decides on.

    Lefty or righty?

  • texdawgtexdawg Posts: 806 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @texdawg said:

    @donm said:
    Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

    https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

    Thanks for posting article. Unfortunately I wasn't able to open it because I need to subscribe to the AJC.

    I have a 6'5" fourteen year old who is a very good pitcher. There is so much conflicting information out there about the best way to develop young pitchers that it's difficult to know what is right.

    How often they should throw, how long should they be shut down or should they even be shut down, and when they should start throwing breaking balls and how often.

    We have decided to be very conservative with my son and we shut him down for long periods of time and limit how many breaking pitches he throws - and he didn't learn the breaking pitch until he was 13. Don't know if that is the right way or not. But I'm confident that over using a 14 year old boy to help win major or AAA tournaments isn't in their best interest.

    I don't know the right answer but I do know there are a whole lot more arm injuries now than there used to be.

    Just a few years ago the notion that having Tommy John surgery was actually good for a pitcher had gained popularity.
    Now research makes it clear having 1 surgery doubles the chances you'll need a second surgery. I'm with those who limit a young person's innings and use of the most damaging pitches. Tommy John surgery has been around a long time, yet there still isn't a single pitcher who had it in The HOF.

    Wrong, but you will probably still argue otherwise.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2015/07/08/john-smoltz-hall-of-fame-tommy-john-surgery/29874857/

    Me argue, you're clearly being your usual dic self. I'm guessing whoever wrote the article I read meant players who had TJ early in their careers, or perhaps it was about starting pitchers.

    Or written prior to 2015. Smoltz is the one and only, so the point you were making is still valid - and we now a documented case where you were 100% wrong about something

    On this day in history....

    I'm so sick of your shiit, let's do each other mutual favors and stop conversing.

    Blood in the water, folks.

    There I go again.

    @WCDawg why can't we all just enjoy this forum without all the animosity.

    People disagree with many of your posts because they are typically negative or posted out of anger. But you also occasionally make good points - but it's difficult to answer back to those because of the anger you always seem to have.

    Is there anyway we could all just agree to disagree on many topics without calling people names.

    Can't understand why we can't all just enjoy being dawg fans and learn a lot from everyones different experiences without always disagreeing or questioning someone's knowledge.

    This is my one attempt to try and cool down the rhetoric and move forward more positively. I can get all the negativity from work, TV, politics, etc. Would like to avoid it with my sports and especially my Dawgs.

  • texdawgtexdawg Posts: 806 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @Acrum21 said:

    @texdawg said:
    Right now he is definitely a DE. He probably has the skill set to play TE but has been playing OT.

    Hopefully he develops into a TE. They are typically not as athletic as other positions - need great hands, size and fast enough. That fits him perfectly.

    He loves DE and hopefully has the athleticism to play it in high school - not to mention college. But he needs some physical maturation (he's only 14) to determine if he is able to play DE. He is VERY physical and that is a plus.

    I don't see the body type to be a D1 o-line recruit. He is about 220lbs but I don't see his body holding 280 plus pounds as a junior or senior in high school. Also, at that weight, it probably eliminates him from pitching.

    But he is not done growing so 6'6" - 6'8" could also change what position or sport he ultimately decides on.

    Lefty or righty?

    Righty. My daughter is a lefty but my son is not.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 12,634 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @texdawg said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @texdawg said:

    @donm said:
    Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

    https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

    Thanks for posting article. Unfortunately I wasn't able to open it because I need to subscribe to the AJC.

    I have a 6'5" fourteen year old who is a very good pitcher. There is so much conflicting information out there about the best way to develop young pitchers that it's difficult to know what is right.

    How often they should throw, how long should they be shut down or should they even be shut down, and when they should start throwing breaking balls and how often.

    We have decided to be very conservative with my son and we shut him down for long periods of time and limit how many breaking pitches he throws - and he didn't learn the breaking pitch until he was 13. Don't know if that is the right way or not. But I'm confident that over using a 14 year old boy to help win major or AAA tournaments isn't in their best interest.

    I don't know the right answer but I do know there are a whole lot more arm injuries now than there used to be.

    Just a few years ago the notion that having Tommy John surgery was actually good for a pitcher had gained popularity.
    Now research makes it clear having 1 surgery doubles the chances you'll need a second surgery. I'm with those who limit a young person's innings and use of the most damaging pitches. Tommy John surgery has been around a long time, yet there still isn't a single pitcher who had it in The HOF.

    Wrong, but you will probably still argue otherwise.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2015/07/08/john-smoltz-hall-of-fame-tommy-john-surgery/29874857/

    Me argue, you're clearly being your usual dic self. I'm guessing whoever wrote the article I read meant players who had TJ early in their careers, or perhaps it was about starting pitchers.

    Or written prior to 2015. Smoltz is the one and only, so the point you were making is still valid - and we now a documented case where you were 100% wrong about something

    On this day in history....

    I'm so sick of your shiit, let's do each other mutual favors and stop conversing.

    Blood in the water, folks.

    There I go again.

    @WCDawg why can't we all just enjoy this forum without all the animosity.

    People disagree with many of your posts because they are typically negative or posted out of anger. But you also occasionally make good points - but it's difficult to answer back to those because of the anger you always seem to have.

    Is there anyway we could all just agree to disagree on many topics without calling people names.

    Can't understand why we can't all just enjoy being dawg fans and learn a lot from everyones different experiences without always disagreeing or questioning someone's knowledge.

    This is my one attempt to try and cool down the rhetoric and move forward more positively. I can get all the negativity from work, TV, politics, etc. Would like to avoid it with my sports and especially my Dawgs.

    There I go, yet again.
    Get my point ?

  • BankwalkerBankwalker Posts: 2,927 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @WCDawg said:

    @texdawg said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @texdawg said:

    @donm said:
    Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

    https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

    Thanks for posting article. Unfortunately I wasn't able to open it because I need to subscribe to the AJC.

    I have a 6'5" fourteen year old who is a very good pitcher. There is so much conflicting information out there about the best way to develop young pitchers that it's difficult to know what is right.

    How often they should throw, how long should they be shut down or should they even be shut down, and when they should start throwing breaking balls and how often.

    We have decided to be very conservative with my son and we shut him down for long periods of time and limit how many breaking pitches he throws - and he didn't learn the breaking pitch until he was 13. Don't know if that is the right way or not. But I'm confident that over using a 14 year old boy to help win major or AAA tournaments isn't in their best interest.

    I don't know the right answer but I do know there are a whole lot more arm injuries now than there used to be.

    Just a few years ago the notion that having Tommy John surgery was actually good for a pitcher had gained popularity.
    Now research makes it clear having 1 surgery doubles the chances you'll need a second surgery. I'm with those who limit a young person's innings and use of the most damaging pitches. Tommy John surgery has been around a long time, yet there still isn't a single pitcher who had it in The HOF.

    Wrong, but you will probably still argue otherwise.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2015/07/08/john-smoltz-hall-of-fame-tommy-john-surgery/29874857/

    Me argue, you're clearly being your usual dic self. I'm guessing whoever wrote the article I read meant players who had TJ early in their careers, or perhaps it was about starting pitchers.

    Or written prior to 2015. Smoltz is the one and only, so the point you were making is still valid - and we now a documented case where you were 100% wrong about something

    On this day in history....

    I'm so sick of your shiit, let's do each other mutual favors and stop conversing.

    Blood in the water, folks.

    There I go again.

    @WCDawg why can't we all just enjoy this forum without all the animosity.

    People disagree with many of your posts because they are typically negative or posted out of anger. But you also occasionally make good points - but it's difficult to answer back to those because of the anger you always seem to have.

    Is there anyway we could all just agree to disagree on many topics without calling people names.

    Can't understand why we can't all just enjoy being dawg fans and learn a lot from everyones different experiences without always disagreeing or questioning someone's knowledge.

    This is my one attempt to try and cool down the rhetoric and move forward more positively. I can get all the negativity from work, TV, politics, etc. Would like to avoid it with my sports and especially my Dawgs.

    There I go, yet again.
    Get my point ?

    LOL. You have thinner skin than the President of the United States of America.

    He’s just asking to cool things down and he knows you are the more mature adult to ask between the two of us.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 12,634 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @texdawg said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @texdawg said:

    @donm said:
    Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

    https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

    Thanks for posting article. Unfortunately I wasn't able to open it because I need to subscribe to the AJC.

    I have a 6'5" fourteen year old who is a very good pitcher. There is so much conflicting information out there about the best way to develop young pitchers that it's difficult to know what is right.

    How often they should throw, how long should they be shut down or should they even be shut down, and when they should start throwing breaking balls and how often.

    We have decided to be very conservative with my son and we shut him down for long periods of time and limit how many breaking pitches he throws - and he didn't learn the breaking pitch until he was 13. Don't know if that is the right way or not. But I'm confident that over using a 14 year old boy to help win major or AAA tournaments isn't in their best interest.

    I don't know the right answer but I do know there are a whole lot more arm injuries now than there used to be.

    Just a few years ago the notion that having Tommy John surgery was actually good for a pitcher had gained popularity.
    Now research makes it clear having 1 surgery doubles the chances you'll need a second surgery. I'm with those who limit a young person's innings and use of the most damaging pitches. Tommy John surgery has been around a long time, yet there still isn't a single pitcher who had it in The HOF.

    Wrong, but you will probably still argue otherwise.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2015/07/08/john-smoltz-hall-of-fame-tommy-john-surgery/29874857/

    Me argue, you're clearly being your usual dic self. I'm guessing whoever wrote the article I read meant players who had TJ early in their careers, or perhaps it was about starting pitchers.

    Or written prior to 2015. Smoltz is the one and only, so the point you were making is still valid - and we now a documented case where you were 100% wrong about something

    On this day in history....

    I'm so sick of your shiit, let's do each other mutual favors and stop conversing.

    Blood in the water, folks.

    There I go again.

    @WCDawg why can't we all just enjoy this forum without all the animosity.

    People disagree with many of your posts because they are typically negative or posted out of anger. But you also occasionally make good points - but it's difficult to answer back to those because of the anger you always seem to have.

    Is there anyway we could all just agree to disagree on many topics without calling people names.

    Can't understand why we can't all just enjoy being dawg fans and learn a lot from everyones different experiences without always disagreeing or questioning someone's knowledge.

    This is my one attempt to try and cool down the rhetoric and move forward more positively. I can get all the negativity from work, TV, politics, etc. Would like to avoid it with my sports and especially my Dawgs.

    There I go, yet again.
    Get my point ?

    LOL. You have thinner skin than the President of the United States of America.

    He’s just asking to cool things down and he knows you are the more mature adult to ask between the two of us.

    I just KEEP being a complete ass hole.

  • BankwalkerBankwalker Posts: 2,927 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited January 14

    Interesting tidbits about tall baseball players. There are only 22 active major leaguers who are 6’5”/250, and only 4 of those are position players. Aaron Judge is already in the top 3 in HRs in history for players in the category. Adam Dunn has the most. When Judge started a game in CF he became the tallest player to ever start a game in CF at 6’8” 285lbs.

    http://www.afootinthebox.com/peter/aaron-judge-is-enormous-and-so-are-these-baseball-players

    Amazing that the 2017 AL MVP is only 5’6” Jose Altuve. The opposite end of the spectrum.

    Dave Winfield is the only HOF position player 6’6” or taller.

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