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My experience with Dawgs247/247sports

scooterdawgscooterdawg Posts: 1,128 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

Just thought I’d share my experience in being a paid 247 member. I’ve mentioned it before but I signed up for a “trial” account in the week leading up to ESD. To be fair, I looked and was aware that it wasn’t going to be just a matter of clicking a button to unsubscribe, though of course that’s all it takes to subscribe. According to 247sports in the fine print you must call a 1-800 number or send an email during normal business hours requesting cancellation. Now I personally think that this policy is intentionally set up to squeeze an extra payment out of people by making it a PITA, but as I said I researched enough to find this out so it is what it is and I’m considering contacting the Better Business Bureau to let them know how they run their business.

My main issue with the site, outside of my personal opinions on the Dawgs247 main writers and their biases, is that I have posted under 20 times on the Junkyard board yet have had posts deleted/been banned multiple times with zero explanation. In the description of what you’re buying with a subscription is included premium access to your teams board. I guess that means be able to read what others have posted or whatever you post that agrees completely with the moderators as my comments that led to being banned were mildly critical of Kipp Adams. By mildly critical I mean as to his opinions/how he does his job. Nothing personal and honestly a hell of a lot gentler than much of the pushback Chip or Griff get on this forum.

So anyway, I thought I’d post an exchange between Kipp Adams(one of the two main writers for Dawgs247 and the one who has banned me). In the interest of full disclosure I’m posting the whole thing even though the initial message from me was made when I was pissed off so may seem petty:


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Comments

  • scooterdawgscooterdawg Posts: 1,128 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited January 26

    Sorry, slightly out of order but I don’t feel like trying to edit as it was enough of a PITA to post them in the first place.
    @JeffSentell @MikeGriffith, @DawgNationDaily

  • scooterdawgscooterdawg Posts: 1,128 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited January 26

    BTW, I’m self aware enough to realize that part of my reason for posting this is pettiness on my part, but I also thought any prospective subscribers should know how much or little their business is valued. It’s like Adams doesn’t realize that the recruiting industry or his job wouldn’t even exist if people like myself and others weren’t willing to pay for it.

    Obviously customer service isn’t the guy’s job but if he’s that tone deaf maybe he shouldn’t be interacting with members. Anyone else agree?

  • KaseyKasey Posts: 6,559 mod

    The only thing I pay for is The Athletic. These subscription sites seem like they can offer good insider info, but it always seems to matriculate here soon enough. But with the Athletic I'm paying for good writing and no ads. With my experience, on the pay sites like Rivals and 247...the info trumps the prose. But that's just me

  • ghostofuga1ghostofuga1 Posts: 2,614 mod

    Sorry, TLDR-DABI..........

  • FirePlugDawgFirePlugDawg Posts: 3,429 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @ghostofuga1 said:
    Sorry, TLDR-DABI..........

    Dabi?

    or,

    Dabis? From urbandictionary. com
    To be EXTREMELY intoxicated from the use of alcohol or drugs.

    To bring to a specific state by drinking alcoholic liquors, or other drugs.

    Either drunk, or under the influence of alcohol. Usually to a large extent. Unable to think correctly, move correctly, or act normaly because of the influence of the substances.

    Beyond exhausted, so much so that one appears to be **** tired. Symptons include staring into space, taking hours to respond to simple questions, pausing randomly inbetween words, walking unsteadily, falling asleep standing up, and generally acting tired and spaced-out.
    "That dude is so dabis, confirm. He can hardly stand up."

    "I took 3 hits of acid and I'm soo dabis."

    "I bought 1 **** of fai chai yesterday, but I can't remember where is it. Dabis, confirm."

    "OMG! I'm so DABIS right now."

  • ghostofuga1ghostofuga1 Posts: 2,614 mod

    Drank A Beer Instead......DABI........

  • FirePlugDawgFirePlugDawg Posts: 3,429 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @ghostofuga1 said:
    Drank A Beer Instead......DABI........

    Dabis is in the right ballpark. 😉

  • MuffingodMuffingod Posts: 540 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @scooterdawg thanks for the insight, I’ve been considering joining since last ESD and have held off. He seems remarkably tone deaf. Just because his checks come from CBS doesn’t mean they wouldn’t stop if the site stopped being profitable, so you’d think that some form of customer service would be a prerequisite for the job.

    I think I’ll pass on a subscription, I love this forum and all of its contributors and posters (even the quirky ones). Besides my wife would probably kill me if I spent more time reading about football, but then again she would get the insurance payout so who knows?

  • imissmunsonimissmunson Posts: 92 ✭✭✭ Junior

    Thanks for sharing your experience @scooterdawg. Last month I was considering a subscription to 247 or the Athletic-- glad I didn't choose 247! Funny how Kipp just spouts credentials rather than address your issue...

  • scooterdawgscooterdawg Posts: 1,128 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @ghostofuga1 said:
    Sorry, TLDR-DABI..........

    LOL, don't blame ya for TLDR but i also was wondering what an anime character had to do with anything. I can get behind your clarification though!

  • dawgy10dawgy10 Posts: 836 ✭✭✭✭ Senior

    247 dawgs is a good site and is worth the 9.99 a month but only if u are a hardcore recruitnik, rusty is a good dude and does his job well. Dawgnation is also a wonderful site and @JeffSentell does a wonderful job with his sentell intel pieces.

  • scooterdawgscooterdawg Posts: 1,128 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @dawgy10 said:
    247 dawgs is a good site and is worth the 9.99 a month but only if u are a hardcore recruitnik, rusty is a good dude and does his job well. Dawgnation is also a wonderful site and @JeffSentell does a wonderful job with his sentell intel pieces.

    From my experience Rusty is fine. Kipp on the other hand seems to take himself too seriously. Gets pissy if anyone questions him, and I was far from the only one to do so. But, to each their own and everyone's mileage may vary.

    To be fair to them, I'm sure it says in the terms of service that they can ban or delete anyone's comments at their discretion. I started the whole communication because I tried to just comment on an article today and found out i was banned or blacklisted or whatever again. I had commented once on whichever day they released the end of year rankings questioning them moving Nolan down and the Bama guy to #1. I questioned why 247 did this but didn't even mention Kipp by name.

    It's also annoying that I've been banned/blacklisted several times yet not once was I given a reason why or told that I even was. Only found out when I wasn't allowed to post or comment. The first time was in one of Kipp's daylong Q&A threads and he posted that I should enjoy my vacation. No message saying you have been banned for this or how long. the current ban or whatever I was not informed of at all.

    Personally I don't enjoy typing something out to have it deleted w/o warning or explanation because a guy is mad that I questioned his judgement a few times. Especially not when it's a site I'm paying $ for and the only explanation I get after asking for one is that "they can do whatever they want...no big deal...you don't pay our checks anyway".

  • bigdawg2223bigdawg2223 Posts: 1,532 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Thanks scooter, I was considering paying. Definitely a hard pass now.

  • jarred_buckjarred_buck Posts: 749 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @scooterdawg do you have a screenshot of the post that got deleted? I’d love to know what they think is worth deleting and giving a suspension for...

  • levanderlevander Posts: 4,481 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Scooter, yeah. You need to get out of there. Taking time to complain about a company who clearly doesn’t care... You didn’t come across well.

    But it was weird Kipp kept saying he’s paid by CBS. Made me think he’s not proud of the 247 brand.

    And the “we can ban/delete for any reason we want, it’s our business”. Why the hell would anyone take time out of their day to post on that board if that’s their attitude?

    What’s messed up is that even though you clearly should have already quit that board and didn’t come across well, Kipp didn’t come across any better. And he may have come across worse.

    Just leave those people be. They seem miserable enough already. Don’t make it any worse for them.

  • scooterdawgscooterdawg Posts: 1,128 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited January 26

    Honestly I was bluffing(to Kipp) about the screenshots of the posts that got me banned. I wish I'd thought to but every time I've had one deleted I wasn't really expecting it. Maybe the first time where I called out Kipp directly, though all I did was point out that many of 247's VIP "updates" were basically rehashes and that Kipp and Rusty seemed to not change their CBs unless it was obvious.

    I had just signed up and most of their pre ESD updates were along the lines of "still don't know what's going to happen with Dean" and "even though everyone else is trending Sanders to Georgia we're not prepared to give much credence to that". Of course they were right on Sanders but not by going out on a limb. Kipp apparently didn't care for me pointing out that I could have gotten the VIP info anywhere.

    @levander Yeah, I'm sure I didn't come off well but I wasn't going to try to edit out stuff to make it look better. I really don't go to their boards often, I have maybe 15-20 posts in the month and a half. I commented directly on an article on the day the updated rankings came out pretty much the same thing I did on here about them dropping Nolan and raising the Bama guy though they all had the same ranking. Didn't know that it was deleted or i was banned until I tried to comment on a completely unrelated article today.

    Deletion of posts and being banned is a pet peeve of mine due to my circumstances right now. I've had a broken arm for a long time that is taking forever to heal because of a medical situation and because I'm trying to avoid surgery. It limits what I can do with my left hand/arm severely and so I've gone from someone who works with computers for a living and could type pretty well and fast to someone who has to use an old ipad or tortuously type one handed on my regular keyboard to get anything done. So I'm particularly sensitive to having something deleted or taking the time to type something and then not being able to post it. The awaiting approval and edit disappear glitches on DN awhile back just about ran me off. Some probably wish it had lol.

    Edit: Being half a cripple also contributes to me having WAY too much time on my hands for much longer than I expected.

  • levanderlevander Posts: 4,481 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited January 26

    @scooterdawg

    Having your posts deleted sucks, I was going back and forth with some guys in Sentell’s “How to make this board great” (something like that) thread and one or two of the guys were like “moderators can be given limited powers! Like limit them to be able to delete posts!” We do two things here. We read posts and we write posts. If you give someone the power to delete posts, that’s NOT limited moderator powers...

    I think you were right on what you were frustrated about. It just seems clear that you were already past the tipping point and should have already quit. Sticking around to complain about how you should have already quit just seems silly. And you were making stuff up about, “I’ve got screen shots!” LOL

    But now that you explain the broken arm thing, that’s probably why you haven’t quit yet. You’ve got WAYYYY too much free time...

    Are you going for walks? Some sun will do a lot to keep your mood up. I’d try to go during the hottest part of the day with it being winter. Get as much sun as possible.

    And I’d buy an Apple TV or a Roku and a $10/month Google Music subscription to take all the ads off YouTube. Then you can watch YouTube on your big screen TV, without ads. There’s lots of good stuff on YouTube. The problem is there’s way more junk than there is good stuff, so it takes forever to find it. But with you being laid up, time sounds like one thing you got. And then when you’re healthy, you’ll know where some stuff on YouTube you like is.

    Digging through all the junk is kind of what the internet has become these days though. Ten years ago, the Internet wasn’t like this.

    You may be more of a Netflix type than a YouTube type though. What people like is different for everybody.

  • christopheruleschristopherules Posts: 3,121 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @scooterdawg thank you so very much for the heads up!

  • scooterdawgscooterdawg Posts: 1,128 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Part of me wonders if I'd have been happier with Rivals but really the moral of the story is that I got nothing from the VIP stuff that I couldn't have gotten from @JeffSentell or this board. I'm sure there are posters on their boards who have info if you know who to trust but I'm pretty sure most of the gossip makes its way through all the boards these days. Probably used to be more valuable when paysites and their boards were all the ravenous fans really had.

    Really the only original content 247 has is related to the Crystal Balls and those are both a gimmick and all over the place from prognosticator to prognosticator. As much as it sucks to see the CB change but not get the info just ask someone on here and save your $ lol.

    Though I DID enjoy seeing a longtime poster on the Junkyard pull a WC and declare that Travon Walker wouldn't be tough enough to play D-line because he played different positions in HS and plays basketball...so there's that lol.

  • deutcshland_dawgdeutcshland_dawg Posts: 472 ✭✭✭✭ Senior

    Check out patreon.com/committed to the g

    The guy from top billing runs that one. It's a one man shop so it's not updated every day but he's got some good stuff and its football only. He also takes the time to respond to everyone's comments and questions

  • dawgnmsdawgnms Posts: 1,561 mod

    If you still have access to the site and discussions then you are not technically banned, just blocked from posting.

    Any type of censorship s u c k s especially when you are paying to be there, main reason I won't pay and line the pockets of a low life corporate excutives and biased reporters like CBS.

    Kipp is right when he sez it is thier site it is and they can run it any way they want, and the best retaliation a paying member has is to cancel and not give them anymore $$$$.

  • DogsNotDawgsDogsNotDawgs Posts: 383 ✭✭✭✭ Senior

    So Jeff knows stuff he does not share. One example being that he does not want to ruin suspense of a commitment. Is that what you get from pay sites is that they drop that discretion?

  • law_dawg35law_dawg35 Posts: 497 ✭✭✭ Junior

    This is why I love Dawg Nation, Jeff, and Brandon..ect

  • BankwalkerBankwalker Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited January 27

    What he said wasnt that bad if you take it in context. He offered to continue the discussion and said he hoped you would stay as a customer, but you chose to focus on the worst. What kind of response did you expect when you lead with, “I’m a paying customer, I can post whatever I want, and I’m going to report you to the BBB”?

    You.come.across.like.a.little.**** and for good reason.

    The guy has actual work to do but is constantly sidelined by having to deal with millennials who throw their entitlement mentality at him. He answers the way he does because he’s been conditioned to the response because this has happened 1000 times. Literally. He doesnt have time to explain to someone that they do not, in fact, have the right to post whatever they want. Attacking the moderators and writers on just about any site like 247 will get you banned. It’s common sense. Try standing inside a Starbucks with the purpose of telling everyone you think their coffee is too expensive and the staff is rude. You’ll get told to leave in a hurry - even if you are a paying a customer. This is about the only site where that behavior is tolerated. My guess regarding why is that Mike Griffith and Chip Towers are actually real journalists, so they’ve heard it in emails from people since the day they started working.

    Your gripe about their cancellation process is also misplaced. He doesnt control the finances.

    Thanks for the laugh.

  • scooterdawgscooterdawg Posts: 1,128 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited January 27

    @Bankwalker said:
    What he said wasnt that bad if you take it in context. He offered to continue the discussion and said he hoped you would stay as a customer, but you chose to focus on the worst. What kind of response did you expect when you lead with, “I’m a paying customer, I can post whatever I want, and I’m going to report you to the BBB”?

    You.come.across.like.a.little.**** and for good reason.

    The guy has actual work to do but is constantly sidelined by having to deal with millennials who throw their entitlement mentality at him. He answers the way he does because he’s been conditioned to the response because this has happened 1000 times. Literally. He doesnt have time to explain to someone that they do not, in fact, have the right to post whatever they want. Attacking the moderators and writers on just about any site like 247 will get you banned. It’s common sense. Try standing inside a Starbucks with the purpose of telling everyone you think their coffee is too expensive and the staff is rude. You’ll get told to leave in a hurry - even if you are a paying a customer. This is about the only site where that behavior is tolerated. My guess regarding why is that Mike Griffith and Chip Towers are actually real journalists, so they’ve heard it in emails from people since the day they started working.

    Your gripe about their cancellation process is also misplaced. He doesnt control the finances.

    Thanks for the laugh.

    Didn’t bother to read...one trick pony.

    BTW @douchebag(Bankwalker) I don’t particularly care for you but I try to not comment on your posts as I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion. The few times I’ve “come at you” I’ve regretted it after the fact as I’m not here for political/social debate and moved on. I haven’t ignored you because again, opinions are like arseholes, but I actually DVed you for the first time today.

    When you obviously only take the time to comment in a shtty way towards my threads/posts it doesn’t exactly give you the maturity “high ground” to stand on. I’d say seeking out my posts to sht on them or give a TLDR repeatedly tends more towards this “millennial” attitude you speak of than my trying to just not engage with you. I’m actually NOT a millennial but my generation DID learn the saying “if you don’t have anything good to say, don’t say anything at all”. You must have missed that one.

    TLDR: Obvious troll is obvious. Carry on and keep showing your ass, just don’t expect further reply from me. You currently have jumped WC with a bullet to be the first person I’ve ignored on here. (And how old is this guy with his “get off my lawn you millennials” crap anyway?)

  • BankwalkerBankwalker Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited January 27

    @scooterdawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:
    What he said wasnt that bad if you take it in context. He offered to continue the discussion and said he hoped you would stay as a customer, but you chose to focus on the worst. What kind of response did you expect when you lead with, “I’m a paying customer, I can post whatever I want, and I’m going to report you to the BBB”?

    You.come.across.like.a.little.**** and for good reason.

    The guy has actual work to do but is constantly sidelined by having to deal with millennials who throw their entitlement mentality at him. He answers the way he does because he’s been conditioned to the response because this has happened 1000 times. Literally. He doesnt have time to explain to someone that they do not, in fact, have the right to post whatever they want. Attacking the moderators and writers on just about any site like 247 will get you banned. It’s common sense. Try standing inside a Starbucks with the purpose of telling everyone you think their coffee is too expensive and the staff is rude. You’ll get told to leave in a hurry - even if you are a paying a customer. This is about the only site where that behavior is tolerated. My guess regarding why is that Mike Griffith and Chip Towers are actually real journalists, so they’ve heard it in emails from people since the day they started working.

    Your gripe about their cancellation process is also misplaced. He doesnt control the finances.

    Thanks for the laugh.

    Didn’t bother to read...one trick pony.

    BTW @douchebag(Bankwalker) I don’t particularly care for you but I try to not comment on your posts as I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion. The few times I’ve “come at you” I’ve regretted it after the fact as I’m not here for political/social debate and moved on. I haven’t ignored you because again, opinions are like arseholes, but I actually DVed you for the first time today.

    When you obviously only take the time to comment in a shtty way towards my threads/posts it doesn’t exactly give you the maturity “high ground” to stand on. I’d say seeking out my posts to sht on them or give a TLDR repeatedly tends more towards this “millennial” attitude you speak of than my trying to just not engage with you. I’m actually NOT a millennial but my generation DID learn the saying “if you don’t have anything good to say, don’t say anything at all”. You must have missed that one.

    TLDR: Obvious troll is obvious. Carry on and keep showing your ass, just don’t expect further reply from me. You currently have jumped WC with a bullet to be the first person I’ve ignored on here. (And how old is this guy with his “get off my lawn you millennials” crap anyway?)

    Thanks for the 2nd laugh. You claimed not to read my response, and then referenced what I posted - incorrectly. I didn't call you a millennial. I said he has to deal with millennials all day. Reading and comprehension.

    As for regretting coming at me - glad to hear it. That was my goal. Don't come at me and I won't come at you. I would have kept my opinion about your post to myself if it had been just about anyone else.

  • scooterdawgscooterdawg Posts: 1,128 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @Bankwalker said:

    @scooterdawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:
    What he said wasnt that bad if you take it in context. He offered to continue the discussion and said he hoped you would stay as a customer, but you chose to focus on the worst. What kind of response did you expect when you lead with, “I’m a paying customer, I can post whatever I want, and I’m going to report you to the BBB”?

    You.come.across.like.a.little.**** and for good reason.

    The guy has actual work to do but is constantly sidelined by having to deal with millennials who throw their entitlement mentality at him. He answers the way he does because he’s been conditioned to the response because this has happened 1000 times. Literally. He doesnt have time to explain to someone that they do not, in fact, have the right to post whatever they want. Attacking the moderators and writers on just about any site like 247 will get you banned. It’s common sense. Try standing inside a Starbucks with the purpose of telling everyone you think their coffee is too expensive and the staff is rude. You’ll get told to leave in a hurry - even if you are a paying a customer. This is about the only site where that behavior is tolerated. My guess regarding why is that Mike Griffith and Chip Towers are actually real journalists, so they’ve heard it in emails from people since the day they started working.

    Your gripe about their cancellation process is also misplaced. He doesnt control the finances.

    Thanks for the laugh.

    Didn’t bother to read...one trick pony.

    BTW @douchebag(Bankwalker) I don’t particularly care for you but I try to not comment on your posts as I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion. The few times I’ve “come at you” I’ve regretted it after the fact as I’m not here for political/social debate and moved on. I haven’t ignored you because again, opinions are like arseholes, but I actually DVed you for the first time today.

    When you obviously only take the time to comment in a shtty way towards my threads/posts it doesn’t exactly give you the maturity “high ground” to stand on. I’d say seeking out my posts to sht on them or give a TLDR repeatedly tends more towards this “millennial” attitude you speak of than my trying to just not engage with you. I’m actually NOT a millennial but my generation DID learn the saying “if you don’t have anything good to say, don’t say anything at all”. You must have missed that one.

    TLDR: Obvious troll is obvious. Carry on and keep showing your ass, just don’t expect further reply from me. You currently have jumped WC with a bullet to be the first person I’ve ignored on here. (And how old is this guy with his “get off my lawn you millennials” crap anyway?)

    Thanks for the 2nd laugh. You claimed not to read my response, and then referenced what I posted - incorrectly. I didn't call you a millennial. I said he has to deal with millennials all day. Reading and comprehension.

    As for regretting coming at me - glad to hear it. That was my goal. Don't come at me and I won't come at you. I would have kept my opinion about your post to myself if it had been just about anyone else.

    Thanks for showing what a **** you are :)

    And btw, I have NEVER posted any crap on any thread you started nor do I seek out your posts to be a dick, so let's not act like this was anything but you showing your ass. Now carry on as you so often state you have better things to do than read my posts..though you DO have the time to click on/reply to them just to be a dick, so that's odd, but thew type of logic I'd expect from you. Now carry on. I actually DO have better things to do and am running late :)

  • BankwalkerBankwalker Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited January 27

    @scooterdawg said:
    Now carry on as you so often state you have better things to do than read my posts..

    I'll mail you a slice of pizza if you can find a single time I've made that remark - to anyone. Saying you have better things to do while posting on a forum like this is a head scratcher. If so, wouldn't you be doing those things? Crediting me with that remark makes me think you've got me lumped in with a couple different people. With me it's very much "reap what you sow". Tired of the squabble? I think that's great, but actions speak louder than words.

  • scooterdawgscooterdawg Posts: 1,128 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited January 27

    @Bankwalker said:

    @scooterdawg said:
    Now carry on as you so often state you have better things to do than read my posts..

    I'll mail you a slice of pizza if you can find a single time I've made that remark - to anyone. Saying you have better things to do while posting on a forum like this is a head scratcher. If so, wouldn't you be doing those things? Crediting me with that remark makes me think you've got me lumped in with a couple different people. With me it's very much "reap what you sow". Tired of the squabble? I think that's great, but actions speak louder than words.

    Oh, I'm sorry..your TLDRs or outright insults on my posts are meant with the utmost respect huh? And here I thought you were just a D-bag with a grudge. Sorry if I hurt your feelings by DVing you a few times for trying to hijjack my thread and then not waiting around for your petty reply. Seems you made good use of the time by starting a thread bemoaning downvotes in such a d-baggy way that you reaped even more and realized perhaps not everyone finds you as captivating and humorous as you are in your own head. I care so little about DVs that you're one of the few not named rattler or Bamaway that I've bothered to. But if it makes you feel better I'll take them back. Didn't know you were such a sensitive type...

    Edit: my apologies to everyone for bumping this thread again. Sometimes it can be tough to remember that engaging in petty squabbles with petty people is pointless and just gives them what they want.

  • BankwalkerBankwalker Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @scooterdawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @scooterdawg said:
    Now carry on as you so often state you have better things to do than read my posts..

    I'll mail you a slice of pizza if you can find a single time I've made that remark - to anyone. Saying you have better things to do while posting on a forum like this is a head scratcher. If so, wouldn't you be doing those things? Crediting me with that remark makes me think you've got me lumped in with a couple different people. With me it's very much "reap what you sow". Tired of the squabble? I think that's great, but actions speak louder than words.

    Oh, I'm sorry..your TLDRs or outright insults on my posts are meant with the utmost respect huh? And here I thought you were just a D-bag with a grudge. Sorry if I hurt your feelings by DVing you a few times for trying to hijjack my thread and then not waiting around for your petty reply. Seems you made good use of the time by starting a thread bemoaning downvotes in such a d-baggy way that you reaped even more and realized perhaps not everyone finds you as captivating and humorous as you are in your own head. I care so little about DVs that you're one of the few not named rattler or Bamaway that I've bothered to. But if it makes you feel better I'll take them back. Didn't know you were such a sensitive type...

    Edit: my apologies to everyone for bumping this thread again. Sometimes it can be tough to remember that engaging in petty squabbles with petty people is pointless and just gives them what they want.

    Have it your way, buttchugger.

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