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I thought this would be a good point to open this back up. It was a head scratcher when the change was made, now it looks like a possible disaster. When you have a very young staff that was responding very well to coaching, PLUS you had the 7th lowest ERA in all of MLB, why change to a guy who has had mixed results at best ?
If this was just some petty personality conflict, somebody needs to grow the hell up.
Georgia girl won that argument in a landslide.
It was a head scratcher when the change was made, now it looks like a possible disaster.
How in the world can you say that after two games ? Two ? Really ?
Its all about the analytics these days in baseball. You are either on board or you are going to be left very very far behind. The Braves have been very slow to embrace the analytical approach to the game but hopefully that is changing.
Certainly off to a rocky start. Hope it just the injuries and not what you are hinting to. They sure walk a lot of batters.
volatilis. Injuries have been a problem with this pitching coach in the past. Methods matter. Leo Mazone knew exactly how he wanted to work pitchers and he had very few injuries on his staffs.
Especially with the "soft" throwers like Maddux and Glavine. Harder throwers like Smoltzie and Avery, a little more injury prone.
A pitching coach that everyone wanted to be fired before the new FO came in and brought something that was beyond standard shifting and started fine tuning how everyone pitched?
Big yawn. Hernandez was going to get fired before 2018 but the only reason why he wasn't was because of the Coppy scandal. He was more lucky than good in 2018, as I said several times in this thread and he absolutely WAS NOT FIRED because of a petty personality conflict. He was fired for being bad, PERIOD. END OF STORY.
In fact, I'll go ahead and say it here.
I'm 100% sure Folty does not break out last year if he doesn't almost eliminate his sinker usage, and that had JACK DIDDLY SQUAT to do with the pitching coach, and EVERYTHING to do with the front office helping him.
How does Hernandez look then if he hypothetically stays (which he would not have if the Coppy scandal didn't happen) and Folty does not break out? Sure looks much worse then which is why last year he was more a right place, right time guy instead of ACTUALLY BEING GOOD.
Younger guys like Wilson and potentially Wright might be a more fundamental problem with pitching development in the minors, it might be out of date.
I’ve thought for a while now that our pitching development in the minors was lacking, keep hearing about all the young talented pitchers but none have really broken out at the major league level yet. With our sheer number of pitching prospects, someone should have emerged by now.
Folty has really been the only breakout so far, as I also said here and it really only happened because of the FO change after a couple years of being meh. If he wasn't told to diminish his usage of his bad sinker and up the usage of his great slider, he likely doesn't break out, then what?
Fried has teased, but it's only really begun with him tinkering with adding a new pitch or two, and that also didn't start until the new FO. Touki has also teased, but is probably a BP guy if his command doesn't improve.
Soroka is pretty safe outside of the shoulder woes, if he gets on the mound, he'll be what he'll be, which at the most is probably a Tim Hudson like #2.
GeorgiaGirl. You're reaching conclusions that are really speculation. I give credit to the position coach.
It hasn't just been me that has been lending a lot more credit to the FO than coaching for ML pitching...
My biggest issue is that they’ve consistently brought pitchers to the big leagues that’ve had glaring holes in their pitch repertoires, almost always their fastballs. When every pitcher developed in the Braves minor leagues has come to the majors with a fastball that plays way down for one reason or another (low spin, wasted spin, poor command) it makes me think that there’s an issue with the way they’re developing the way their pitchers are throwing that pitch. In an era where the best teams have been exploiting the ability to create dynamic fastballs by improving overall spin or at least spin efficiency, we rank near the bottom, and two of our three best pitching prospects are throwing sinkers as their primary fastball.
The fact that it took until the FO was changed before Folty finally abandoned his sinker and got his 4-seamer to play more in line with its velocity seems to back this.
There’s also the fact that no one that’s come up with the exception of Touki that seems to have developed a consistent platoon-beating secondary (changeup/splitter).
I don’t think it’s a lack of talent but there does seem to be evidence of some outdated pitcher development. I also, understand pitching development tends to be non-linear and often frustratingly slow, but if there is an issue it’s that we could be waiting years for our pitching to arrive while the bats are already here. If you’re going to build around pitching to the degree we decided to, you best be extremely confident in your ability to develop the raw talent in to capable major leaguers, I’d sure like to see more evidence of that.
This is more of a systemic/philosophical problem I have than a this season problem, I agree we’re going to find out about our pitchers this year.
There's been plenty of people saying that the FO changing is the only real reason Folty broke out.
Donm. Smoltz wasn't really injury prone, he had 10 seasons of 200 plus innings pitched. He had the elbow problem, but with the torque he generated he was pretty durable career wise. Avery is hard to figure. He seemed to throw effortlessly. He had a great build and pretty solid form. Sometimes it's just bad luck or some internal structural weakness. I have from all appearances very strong shoulders, and for most things they are. I've never been able to throw hard for long though because of impinged bursal sacs.
GeorgiaGirl, regardless of who is saying these things, it's still just speculation. It's the pitching coach who works with these young pitchers day in day out.
@GeorgiaGirl is right from what I’ve heard. In this day and age the front office has probably more impact on how a pitcher pitches anyway, with pitch usage and sequencing. Sinkers have kind of gone the way of the dinosaurs with the fly ball revolution, there’s more emphasis on “rising” fastballs and spin rate now. Eliminating his sinker and developing a nasty slider helped folty a lot.
Frankly, the Braves May have over estimated their ability to develop pitchers. They built a rebuild around pitchers and haven’t really developed anyone above average outside of folty (who was half astros half Braves, and drafted by the astros). It’s kind of maddening. Even if you credit the old pitching coach with folty, he also failed to develop anyone else and Tehran has turned into a fringe mlb pitcher.
Tldr: Hernandez probably didn’t do as much for folty as the new front office did to begin with. And even if he did, our pitching development hasn’t been good anyway so who cares that they fired him.
If I remember correctly Folty had a some games that he pitched well but had 0 to little run support.
Folty was legitimately good last year. The argument isn't that he was overrated, it was that Hernandez didn't do much for him to where he deserved praise for developing him at the major league level.
Which is true, I'm sorry if it's not believable but I don't see Folty breaking out like he did last year without the changes to his pitch mix.
Seriously GG, it's starting to seem like you have a personal dislike for Hernandez.
It's like firing a successful HC and arguing his assistants deserve the credit. Sports is a bottom line business. Why fire a successful coach ?
Orlando. Folty had all star numbers. He and Anibal Sanchez were our best starters by a lot last season. Not re-signing Sanchez might prove to be a big mistake.
Well, he wasn't fired because he was a success, he was fired because he s.ucks and was lucky and NOT good last year. There are PLENTY of people that wanted him fired after 2017, and he WAS going to get fired before 2018 happened if the Coppy scandal didn't happen. Wonder what the narrative is if the pink slip happens in 2017 because I don't think him being there or not changes much to the fortunes for 2018, HMMMMMMMMM?