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Will The Braves contend this season ?...

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Comments

  • CTDawgCTDawg Posts: 2,107 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Shane Carle is bad long live Shane Carle

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Tighter wound ball and Peds. The rest is a cover story. Therapies have not made much difference in the few short years since we were in the last low homer period.

  • TNDawg71TNDawg71 Posts: 2,218 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Today's game showed command vs. control. Folty had an 0-2 count on Kinsler and was blowing it by him. Tried to throw a slider down and away. It was a spinner over the heart and went for a double. Several catastrophes later the game was out of hand.

  • GeorgiaGirlGeorgiaGirl Posts: 1,854 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited May 2019

    Folty either was struggling through dead arm or is ded for the year because he only ever succeeded through 1 way, and that one way is taken away if he can't get back to it.

    This is the summary of how he's looked so far:

    Folty’s velocity is down, he couldn’t get any whiffs on it, and his slider has lost bite (downward movement) from last year and was even more ter.rible than his diminished fastball.

    If he's not struggling through dead arm, then he's ded for the year no matter what. He needs the fastball to be faster so he can get whiffs off it, and if he's not getting whiffs on it, teams can just ignore his slider unless it's a hanger even if he gets back the 2018 slider, and it just spirals. There's no other option for him other than grip it and rip it on the fastball because his other secondaries outside the slider have only merely been decent in his career, and he's never had to junkball it through games or tried, so he doesn't know how there.

    If he can't get back to sustaining 96, then he's ded no matter when that is realized.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    The current dependency on sustained hyper velocity will shorten many if not most careers of starting pitchers. It's hard to imagine we'll see another career like Greg Maddux and Tom Glavine had.

    Even power pitchers used to pick their spots to throw mid-90s and the rare upper-90s pitch was held in reserve for big spots. Arms can strengthen muscles, but connective tissue has limited response to training. For the most part we have the cartilage and ligaments we were given by our DNA.

    It would be in players' interest to discuss easing back on the throttle through collective bargaining, but the need to compete might not allow it to happen.

  • KirbstomperKirbstomper Posts: 1,102 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    If folty doesn’t throw hard he doesn’t have a career. As @GeorgiaGirl said, if he is 90-93 he isn’t a good major league pitcher anymore. There are plenty of pitchers who don’t throw that hard or have nasty stuff, they just usually aren’t very good. Telling pitchers to be less good isn’t something I think any of them will be on board for.

  • GeorgiaGirlGeorgiaGirl Posts: 1,854 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited May 2019

    You can still succeed while averaging 92 but you need better command and even good command Folty is more effectively wild than pinpoint.

    But Folty needs the heat so he can get in the zone whiffs and lead to his slider getting swings out of the zone. He's had neither that heat or the slider. Since his heat is not as fast, it's easier to foul it off, so teams ignore the slider unless they're hangers. Hopefully he's experiencing dead arm, but he seems to have changed the movement of his slider too (it had basically no horizontal movement today and much less in his first start compared to 2018), indicative of the elbow still barking?

    If it's not dead arm, he's ded for 2019 because his path to success was the big fastball getting in zone whiffs so teams can't ignore the slider. Hopefully it is.

  • AndersonDawgAndersonDawg Posts: 1,875 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    The Braves will tease then disappoint. I wish i was wrong.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited May 2019

    Kirbstoomper. Folty is dependent on having velocity at all times because that is how pitchers are being trained. Name some top pitchers today who don't reach 94 to 98 with their fastball on a regular basis.

    Here are a few as measured by Fan-graphics.

    Kershaw . 96-97 ( when healthy)

    Scherzer. 96-98

    Degrom. 96-100

    Sale. 97-100

    Kluber. 94-95

    Verlander. 97-100

    Bumgarner. 93-94 ( when he was great)

    Blake Snell. 96-100

    Trevor Bauer. 96-99

    Mike Mikolas. 96-99

    Mike Clevinger. 94-98

    Patrick Corbin. 93-96

    I listed the greats of this era first, then the last 5 listed were among the top performers last year.

    I DID NOT cherry pick either, I went down the line.

    Between 2002 and 2016 the average fastball thrown in MLB increased 3.1 mph, I'm betting that trend has only accelerated over the past 3 years.

    As I mentioned here the other day, pitchers will reach the bigs earlier and burn out earlier because they don't have to learn to be as crafty as a Maddux or Glavine was. When they lose a bit of velocity it's don't let the door hit your ass on the way out and send in the fresh meat.

  • KirbstomperKirbstomper Posts: 1,102 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited May 2019

    @WCDawg @GeorgiaGirl I think we are all saying the same thing. Folty is bad at 90-93 because he doesn’t have command or other good secondaries or a real full arsenal of pitches. He has always been a power pitcher and not much more. As @GeorgiaGirl said if he doesn’t get whiffs on the fastball or chases with the slider what about him screams mlb caliber pitcher? Probably nothing

    no doubt people are throwing harder, harder fastballs are harder to hit. It makes sense that stuff is prioritized because pitchers developing into Greg Maddox is like a 0.5% outcome. Why not hope the guys with big stuff figure out the nuances of pitching as opposed to betting on the guy with average stuff doing it?

    I agree it has taken a lot of the art out of the game due to certain things not being prioritized in coaching, but having a big fastball and good command/crafty pitching strategy are not mutually exclusive. Someone like soroka is a good blend of both. All in all I think the Braves actually just **** at developing pitchers and their entire rebuild strategy was potentially the worst thing they could have done. /rant

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Soroka has excellent movement and seems to have the makeup as well. If he can stay relatively healthy I like his chances to be our ace soon. Could he succeed with an 88 mph fastball though ?

  • orlandoorlando Posts: 2,322 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
  • GeorgiaGirlGeorgiaGirl Posts: 1,854 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited May 2019

    If he needed to, he'd probably do OK but it'd diminish his upside and his other fare would have to be decreased as well (slider can run up to 87, maybe even 88). His IQ is fantastic but he's evolved quite a bit since he was drafted as well, now the guy that you have might actually be an ace if the change up can catch up to where the slider is now.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Cute Orlando. Seriously though, mid-90s velocity is pretty much a dime a dozen at the MLB level now. What sets Soroka apart from the pack is command and movement on his pitches. The guy seems to have the makeup to command Mike Soroka, which is really what it's about.

  • orlandoorlando Posts: 2,322 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited May 2019

    Just saying, command is everything. Having control at 95 is good but I’d take a guy that can spot 88 every time. Maddux wasn’t a flame thrower but he could put his pitches thru a key hole. Soroka has some similarities.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Orlando. I agree. Maddux had command in every way...except his verbal temper ''F...…….k'' could be heard from the cheap seats when he made a mistake, not that he made many.

    He not only spoted inside, outside, up or down at will, he had very underappreciated movement on his pitches. Add in his ability to set hitters up not just from pitch to pitch, but also from at bat to at bat and even game to game and we had a once in forever package in Maddog. Man what I'd give to be able to follow a pitcher like that again.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    What a performance by Soroka tonight. Does he ever throw a flat and straight pitch ?

  • donmdonm Posts: 10,241 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Not often. Sure wish we could play the fish 81 times a year.

  • MarkBoknechtMarkBoknecht Posts: 1,495 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    I haven't watched a lot of Braves games yet. Been more focused on Georgia Spring Ball and the draft. But I was pleasantly surprised this morning that we came back from 2- 0, and walloped Miami 9 - 2 last night. But it was Miami.

    Just as impressive was Minter. One inning of relief and 3 K's. So much better than his last outing: 4 ER's and no outs as I recall it.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Mark. Soroka didn't give up an earned run. Both of The Marlins' runs came off 2 errors. The positives I see is hitting, defense and several of the young starters look really good so far.

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