Hey folks - as a member of the DawgNation community, please remember to abide by simple rules of civil engagement with other members:
- Please no inappropriate usernames (remember that there may be youngsters in the room)
- Personal attacks on other community members are unacceptable, practice the good manners your mama taught you when engaging with fellow Dawg fans
- Use common sense and respect personal differences in the community: sexual and other inappropriate language or imagery, political rants and belittling the opinions of others will get your posts deleted and result in warnings and/ or banning from the forum
- 3/17/19 UPDATE -- We've updated the permissions for our "Football" and "Commit to the G" recruiting message boards. We aim to be the best free board out there and that has not changed. We do now ask that all of you good people register as a member of our forum in order to see the sugar that is falling from our skies, so to speak.
- Please no inappropriate usernames (remember that there may be youngsters in the room)
- Personal attacks on other community members are unacceptable, practice the good manners your mama taught you when engaging with fellow Dawg fans
- Use common sense and respect personal differences in the community: sexual and other inappropriate language or imagery, political rants and belittling the opinions of others will get your posts deleted and result in warnings and/ or banning from the forum
- 3/17/19 UPDATE -- We've updated the permissions for our "Football" and "Commit to the G" recruiting message boards. We aim to be the best free board out there and that has not changed. We do now ask that all of you good people register as a member of our forum in order to see the sugar that is falling from our skies, so to speak.
Options
COVID-19 Check-in
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
I saw all the posts on Sweden. I have a question for folks on this thread about Sweden. I'm scheduled to go to Sweden in July to pick up a sailboat and bring it back to the US (I sell boats or a living, which is pretty fun, yes).
Right now my flight is into Oslo, Norway, though I could change that to Stockholm, but it is a 6 hour drive from Stockholm and 1 hour from Oslo.
My Mom is in assisted living and it is interesting the amount of tissues she goes through.
I hear ya. Listen, I’m not denying my post was slanted. So have been dozens of other posts in this same thread. For instance, I mentioned ventilators. How much subtle flack has the POTUS received, IN THIS VERY THREAD, over HCQ and buying 29 million doses? All because of ONE publicized study out of Virginia. Did @CaliforniaDawg call out his fellow libt...s for posting their own “slanted” views that just happened to match his own hypocritical views? I think not, sir. One key difference between the two situations. The HCQ study out of UVA has been exposed as lacking in scientific method. The situations I referenced continue to stand as the most severe and therefor, the most inherently mismanaged.
There's no evidence to say if it does or doesn't work. That's what clinical trials are for. There was also a highly publicized study out of Brazil that was halted due to a quarter of the participants developing dangerous heart problems. A well known side effect of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine. The study in France that started all this was with only 36 people and it wasn't even randomized. They were knowingly choosing who got the treatment and who did not which skews results.
Do you currently you allow your 12 year old to play with her friends? If so, then why would you be worried? If not, then why would you be worried? Seriously.
Cardiac issues with hydroxychloroquine are exceedingly rare. I've been prescribing it for well over 30 years. I was told that the culprit in Brazil was chloroquine, but I haven't verified, am I wrong?
off topic: I get to cut out cancers again, starting today; tension in my household is expected to diminish markedly.
Chloroquine is much worse. GENERALLY, hydroxychloroquine is safe. I'm surprised chloroquine is still even on the marked, but it could be an availability thing for smaller countries dealing with malaria. Or that one in a thousand patient that can tolerate chloroquine but not hydroxychloroquine for whatever reason.
There's actually a large list of meds that have come out and later down the road they found a chemical variant of the same drug that makes it more suitable for therapy. Sometimes it's more efficacious. Sometimes it has a better side effect profile. Sometimes it's neither and just a good way to slap a name brand on something and make a lot of money.... but that's for another topic.
(I know you know this Dragonslayer, I was just posting for the others)
When all of this COVID-19 is finally done for good, and at long last it is completely over with???
I sure DO hope that this event is but a once in a lifetime occurrence.
Amen to that!
Yeah it is rare for people taking it for RA and lupus to develop heart problems. Much more common to develop eye issues. The problem that's been coming up in these studies is patients being given doses that are between 500-600 mg instead of the 200-250 mg used for lupus and RA. In healthy people the therapeutic, toxic, and lethal doses are all close together. People with pre-existing heart issues are going to have a lower threshold for toxicity. COVID-19 is also causing heart problems in some people which could lower the toxic dose. We still need to do clinical trials to see if it can actually help treat COVID-19 and if the arrhythmia is only a problem for those with pre existing heart problems.
All of our kids out for just a quick ride around only our own block in our neighborhood with their Mama (that would be MY wife) from a few days ago. Fresh air with masks too. Our “Little DAWGS” of the future!!!
Even retinopathy is uncommon. We used to recommended ophthalmology exams every 6 months now most are getting it every year or two until they have been taking it for at least five years.. Loading doses appear safe as well. Like you, I don't think the data is sufficient to say it's effective,certainly doesn't appear to be in severe cases presenting "late" in the course. I have more concern for azithromycin prolonging the QT interval and leading to torsades than I have for HCQ. The measurable effect to study will be QT prolongation, not arrhythmias, IMO. All preexisting heart issues do not predispose patients to HCQ toxicity or lower the threshold for it, some probably do.
Something that I haven't seen mentioned is the health of those testing positive for the virus and/or antibodies. Does the virus leave behind "underlying conditions". Are victims left with long term issues that could leave them susceptible to serious consequences from a second attack or a case of simple influenza etc.?
QT prolongation is what's being monitored in these CQ and HCQ studies now. I only mention arrhythmia because some of the patients that died in the Brazil study had ventricular tachycardia.
Too early to tell. Pneumonia doesn't usually cause permanent damage.
Actually, there are reports of pulmonary fibrosis as a result of Covid-19. What we don't know yet is the prevalence. It will takes months or maybe years to accurately determine the answer.
If memory serves me right, y'all live out in San Diego, correct? Is everybody out there really forced to wear mask? I understand why it's needed but what'll happen if you don't wear one? They fine you? Take ya to jail?
...btw, your kids look healthy and happy.
@Bulldawg1982 Yes, we are in San Diego and we are all fine. As to your question about the law and masks?, I am not all that certain. However, I DO wear one each and every time that I am outside of our house. Truthfully, I'm much more fearful of my own wife than anyone else (she is an R.N.), that includes law enforcement too!!! LOL Everyone here in San Diego is doing well, the kids are doing their school work with their mother as the adminstrator and teacher's aide (we have an eleven year old fifth grade boy, a nine year old fourth grade girl, a seven year old second grade girl, and a five year old kindergarten boy too) who are all also going stir-crazy, and my wife (I feel) she ought to up for "Sainthood status" after all of this Covid-19 stuff is finally over. I am considered essential personnel at my employer, (but my hours have been reduced) a lot of our staff scientists are working remotely from home. I'd say that the daily San Diego traffic is down 80-85% ??? The population at my work place is probably down to less than 2% of our normal, and my job even gave me a official travel letter to present to law enforcement if I am ever stopped. This has been going on for 6 to 7 weeks, right? I haven't ever been stopped, not once. In fact, I have never had any encounters with any law enforcement at all since the beginning of this around March the 12th. My life nowadays at Salk? It is a ghost town to help us do our part to beat Covid-19.
PS - GO DAWGS!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQNkTt-ARBs
Have you seen any cases where someone had pulmonary fibrosis caused by COVID-19 but didn't have ARDS?
According to this article, the Brasil study was chloroquine: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/chloroquine-study-coronavirus-brazil
I feel that the polarization of hcq as a political topic has clouded the data re: whether anyone can definitively state whether it's effective/safe as a treatment.
I also feel that a lot of decisions that were made in the fog of war during those early days of the pandemic were a result of governors, hospitals, etc. seeing what was emerging in Europe, saw the early Imperial College models (which were overstated), did the math and said "we're not gonna have enough ventilators" which prompted a chain reaction of misguided strategies and mitigation plans that turned out to not be as important as they expected given the information they had at the time.
Similarly - there was growing anecdotal experience re: the use of hcq in COVID patients; but as we have since learned in the non-RCT retrospective studies, there was too much variability in when patients initiated treatment. In short - antivirals may potentially help when symptoms first begin (still unproven clinically) but are likely not helpful once patients progress to the severe or critical state. Conversely, studies released this week for an IL-6 blocker indicate that they have no effect for severe patients but may potentially help some critical patients in cytokine storm.
In other words - retrospective studies for hcq aren't particularly informative as to whether early treatment is effective because it was given to patients at all stages. The reality is that starting a severe or critical patient on hcq is unlikely to reverse the progression because the inflammatory response chain reaction has already passed the point of an antiviral agent being effective.
One final note: the NIH's official guidance is specific to monitoring for heart issues when using HCQ and for the use HCQ and azithromycin together (and even then - it's still allowed in a controlled study.)
There are insufficient clinical data to recommend either for or against using chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine for the treatment of COVID-19 (AIII).
Except in the context of a clinical trial, the COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines Panel (the Panel) recommends against the use of the following drugs for the treatment of COVID-19: the combination of hydroxychloroquine plus azithromycin (AIII) because of the potential for toxicities"