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Comments
I am uncomfortable with any side of this actually being a thing... and for any of it to take effect, you would have to know who was prone to disease BEFORE they reproduce. That usually doesn't happen.
Yes, it is morally reprehensible and needs to stay in the ash bin of history. It's disturbing that I keep seeing these arguments pop up in more than one place. I know its probably because people are frustrated with the current situation and want things to go back to normal but it doesn't justify "let the weak die" arguments.
Perfect day here in the Upstate of SC. Gonna get to around 80 with tons of sun.
Tough day yesterday as we tried to plan or rearrange what senior recognition will look like, trying to figure out where to plan events, spacing, seating, etc.
Its even more frustrating when you ride by Lowes on the way home and it's PACKED. Not sure how hundreds of people can be in Lowes all up in each other's business, yet we can't do school. Eeeeesh... I want some mulch, but it can wait...
My fam is healthy here, just weary at times. Wife is sad for her 18 yr old, but staying strong. Gonna have dinner here with her parents tonight, spaced out, mainly outside. First time we will have seen them in 8 weeks or so. New norm, it seems.
Great lead article on USA Today about Sweden and what it's doing. Their nursing homes have been rocked, like everywhere else. But they never shut everything down.
Well, it sounds like the "all the bad people go to hell and the good people go to heaven" argument. Sounds good 'till you have to separate bad from good.
Deciding who is "weak" would be just as awful. We will all be weak eventually. Just like we are all bad at times.
Nature is CRUEL. Screw Bambi - one of the worst movies ever made. Animals that die in nature don't lay down and fall asleep. They get eaten alive or they slowly starve to death. Natural selection (an amazingly intelligent design, I will add) is ROUGH, without bias.
There's a reason we are (well, we should act like we are) set apart. It's called LOVE. And that ain't the cupid love, it's the "you ahead of me" love that makes us special, in a specific image. It's the opposite of "let 'em die." It's why all these HEROES across our country are working their tails off to save us all, even if they die in the process.
To leave mankind to the laws of nature is ignoring our calling, giving Love the middle finger. Not I. We are called to lift up the weak - that was the example set before us.
Sweden has actually done worse than we have going strictly off deaths. 231 deaths per million compared to our 174. Their neighbors are much lower in fatalities as well: Finland 36 per mil, Norway 39 per mil, and Denmark 75 per mil.
Edit: the crux of the issue is that good enough to justify the weaker recession they may have compared to the rest of Europe. A difficult question.
Yep, with a few spots (nursing homes, it seems) really skewing their numbers. Yet they haven't overwhelmed a healthcare system with fewer beds per capita.
Their reality is this - as long as there is not a peak, they are trying to find a SUSTAINABLE level of society that can roll forward for months and months. A level to settle in and continue living pre- vaccine.
Is that our goal, or is New Zealand (zero-ish) our realistic goal?
Yeah they're basically saying this is here to stay might as well find a way to live with it. That's a terrifying future but it may be reality. About a third of the deaths are in nursing homes I believe. Sweden does have a really interesting demographic breakdown that is helping them with this strategy as well as a really strong sense of collectivism. They are doing well with social distancing without mandatory rules.
Can-o-worms time... as it opens (sounds like a can of tennis balls opening, with a faint background voice saying "don't do it...).
HYPOTHETICALLY SPEAKING (again, same faint voice)...
Given two choices, which would you choose:
A. Live in a free, America-ish society with an average lifespan of 45 years
B. Live in a communist, China-ish society with an average age of 90 years
(Basically, of course, do you judge quality over quantity, etc. not guaranteed anything, but letting percentages do their thing). And don't hit me with the "we shouldn't have to choose" side arguement. No crap, we shouldn't. It's my game! Just play it...
Can I take a middle ground 70 year option?
People keep talking about a vaccine and the time frame needed to produce one.
Is it not true that their has never been a vaccine produced for a corona virus in the past?
Not MERS not SARS.... why is everyone convinced there will be a vaccine for Covid - 19?
Not being critical. Just a suggestion. Maybe too big a spread. Don't think the avg. life span in China would be 90, nor only 45 in US.
Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. 2 million is a scary number. Really need a vaccine then. Do you have any numbers on the economy? How long can it last in its current state?
Also prayers for your continued health. I am very sorry to hear about your situation and I really hope you can get the procedures you need done soon.
I wasn't trying to suggest anything. Just wanted to know if he had numbers on what would happen if we went herd immunity vs waiting for vaccine.
On our weekly conference call yesterday we had one of our cardio vascular surgeons who had volunteered in Manhattan for a week. He talked about what he had seen and some of how it worked. He was assigned to one of the ICU units so he was in the thick of things. He said normally they would have 2 or 3 patients on ventilators but now all of the patients were on ventilators and the nurses were stretched extremely thin. The doctors were working on the vents and that would have gotten him chewed out when he was an intern but it was necessary in that situation since there wasn't enough people to cover all of the patients in the ICU. He also said that they worked extremely hard to make sure someone was holding a hand when the person died so they didn't die alone with their family on the phone telling the patient goodbye. You could see from his demeanor that he was still shaken about what he had witnessed. He was also just coming out of his 14 day quarantine which he sad was extremely lonely. I was thankful to get a first hand account of what was going on especially in such a hot zone. @Kasey, I'm glad you got out of there during this.
Also on the how long of life one should/would live. When my mom was dying her blood pressure was down to 50/30. All of the medical professionals working with her said she should be dead and the only thing they could figure out was since she had lived through the depression and WW2 that it made her one tough cookie.She lived for 2 days with that blood pressure before she died. I can attest to how tough of a cookie she was. Any 92 year old that will get out and crawl on her hands and knees just so she could work in her flower beds has to be tough and determined.
Are we as strong as that generation? I believe that will determine how we survive this virus as well as medical advancements.
@Denmen185 prayers and concern for you sir.
As someone who has to have an annual colonoscopy because of family history.....I'm praying you can have your procedure ASAP.