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I thank the Lord everyday that I gave up being affiliated with any political party. My own thoughts brought my independence of all beliefs, including politics. I don't follow herd mentality.......
You are right to be cynical about politics. I have worked for a congressman and worked on multiple congressional campaigns for folks from one political party. I have run for office and ran statewide campaigns for the other major party. I am one of the few people I know who has this experience on both sides. And, both parties play extremely dirty - both to the other party, yes, but even dirtier is the internal politics - again on both sides. Both do whatever they have to in order to promote themselves and survive at the expense of our people and our country. I am not deceitful enough to do well in that world. In fact, I was told that I was too honest by folks on both sides who liked me and were trying to help. It was surreal hearing that about a noble pursuit that my family has been involved with for 400 years to the year in this nation, dating back obviously to before it was a nation.
But then, in these confusing Covid19 times, I turn outside of politics. To ministers who aren't political, to actors who aren't political, to community leaders who aren't political, to health care workers who aren't political and I see heroic acts of selfness, great positive attitudes and for me a partially refound faith in humanity.
But beyond today or even our nation's history, humans have thousand, perhaps millions of years of history consisting of acts of kindess intertwined with ruthless deceipt, brutality and selfishiness among those who rise to leadership. Why is this? I don't understand the dichomoty.
Regarding Covid19, I think it is absolutely essential to dig into any situation in which data is presenting in a confusing manner, someone is fired, the logic of a statement doesn't match the situation, etc. We are fighting an enemy that requires coordination among all of us and politicans are still squabbling to divide us when we need a united front now more than ever. Questioning a politician should first and foremost be something we do with a politician we voted for and not just as a way of having a gotcha moment for someone we didn't vote for. If we voted for someone, they are responsible to us and it is our job to make sure of it. I really, really dislike the norms today in which those someone votes for can do no wrong and those someone votes against can do no right. We should hold those we vote for to a higher standard than those we vote against and not engage in tribalism. And if anyone on this forum questions something analytically, I think that is great - it doesn't matter to me if it is a liberal or a conservative questioning a liberal or conservative leader - it doesn't matter! GrayDawg, Denman and many others have questioned things and this is a healthy part of living in a democracy. Others get on here and are just an echo chamber of ranting for the deceitful politicians manipulating people like puppets.
Until we stop diving ourselves, we won't beat Covid19 and we won't elect people who speak to a greater good, but instead will be stuck with those who are really skilled at lying, manipulating and dividing us. In football, we praise Kirby Smart. In politics, we elect the equivalent of Jeremy Pruitt. I think we'd fix a lot of what is broken with more folks like Kirby Smart and less people like Pruitt in poliitcs. It would also help us both take Covid19 seriously and get our economy back on track.
The key here will be mid June. Much has been made of the 5% Fl decline in the 2 weeks since reopen v 2 weeks prior. In reality the decline is due to the social distancing that occurred during the lock-down and the cases may increase in the next 2 weeks followed by hospitalizations increasing early/mid June and deaths up in the last 2 weeks of June. Hope I'm wrong but that's how it works unless the seasonal factor kicks in.
I believe the models predict that some uptick/backsliding is practically guaranteed whenever and wherever shelter orders are lifted, so I imagine your fears are well founded. I just hope we don't overreact when it happens and start shutting things down again. Because if that happens, we will be in a world of pain (economically, politically, and culturally) far worse than anything that has happened so far.
Hopefully testing will be at a point where we could trace and isolate clusters. I’m with you - I don’t think people could withstand another large scale closing (fill in the blanks for the reasons why).
This. Because no matter how you feel/felt about the shutdowns, if it gets as bad as it was at the beginning of the outbreak we’re going to get shut down again.
Hope we’ve taken the right steps to prepare and opened at the right times to keep this from happening.
Alas I fear that ship has sailed. The right move would have been to require the wearing of masks while outside. This has been the case in virtually every European country that eased restrictions and even the WH requires them for everyone except one! That tells me that they are felt to be effective by the administration! This would have also benefited the demand side of the economy as more would feel comfortable to go out.
CDC is now saying the disease is not spread through surfaces - just person to person contact. So, the 100 million wipes I have used in my home and office were for naught. Yet, the mask thing is obviously right because, well, they say so...
Cluster$+&@.
They said it doesn't spread easily via surfaces not that it doesn't at all. It's not really that surprising.
It's not surprising, but it is contrary to what we've been told up until now. I think that's Cane's point. When it comes to science and medicine, consensus opinion is always just a best guess based on the information collected so far. Nothing wrong with that, just important to remember.
We know Covid19 is airborne. So paranoia about surfaces is all about protecting about the very unlikely event that an airborne molecule sits on a hard surface and then jumps to to the air and we breathe it in.
And since it is ariborne, two people wearing masks is key if one person has it. The double barrier prevents 95% of airborne molecules from being breathed in and out. So, if two people are wearing masks, statistically, we could spread 5% of the molecules with Covid19 if we or someone else had it and we would receive 5% of the molecules if only we wear a mask in an attempt to protect ourselves but someone else isn't wearing a mask who has it even though they may not realize it yet or at all.
Bottom line, wash your hands, wear a mask, social distance and open businesses. Win-win with a little bit of annoyance. Isn't a bit of annoyance worth American lives and American livelihood?
"Bottom line, wash your hands, wear a mask, social distance and open businesses."
Boy, wouldn't it be nice to see Schumer/Pelosi and Trump/Pence stand before the American people and make this announcement together, as one.
I think the confusion comes from the reports that it could live for long periods of time on surfaces and people took that to mean it was easily spread from surfaces. I think most people thought that though which is very reasonable.
The state governors would still find a way to mess it up. When in doubt, vote it out
I'm sure you're right. At the same time, I'm thankful we live in a country with sovereign states who have at least some freedom to operate independently from the federal government. So you have, e.g., NY, CA, and MI on the one hand, and GA, FL, TX on the other. Lots of other states in between. It allows different approaches to problem solving, spurs innovation, and the people are always free to move wherever they like. (Or, as you said, vote for change.)
The issue is this lockdown is hurting the healthcare industry as well. If there is a "second wave", worst than the first, they are going to be short handed.
I don't think you meant to say "airborne" in the true sense of airborne transmission, which it definitely is not. It is by droplet. If it was airborne social distancing would not help meaning the virus could live in the air for long periods of time. Even the CDC originally said that only the infected ones need to wear a mask. So I assume there are those that are sticking to that.
My whole point is not to feed into the "mask vs. no mask" argument. I makes common sense to wear a mask for the wearer to keep from spreading more so than the wearer to keep from getting it. I never understood why the powers that be told us not to wear them early on. That HAS to be one of the biggest mistakes we made. "No mask = spreads on surfaces and by touch" in my mind, and therefore I wiped the finish off most of the hard surfaces where I lived for a month. I didn't ask questions - I just reacted to what I was told. I am an idiot.
My point is that we have heard SO MUCH CRAP coming from people (media, pundits, scientists) who wanted to sound like they knew what they are talking about that affected how we lived, dictated policy, led to legislation, etc. that really was just weak speculation about what may or may not be truth.
So many people were looking to get on TV to sound important and intelligent with their "studies" and theories, and so many talking heads on television spewed this stuff to all of us because we were looking for any information and anything to believe. They wanted ratings and eyes on them, and they got them, with disregard for truth and the soundness of what they were saying.
Clickbait on websites and graphics on television that don't lie to us, but they really mislead.
And now most people trust NO ONE. Not a scientist. Not a politician. Not a show host. NO ONE, and they are going to live by their own experience and education.
It's reminds me of the debate in the 90's about the definition of the word "is," if anyone remembers that testimony from a famous politician. It may not be a lie, but it ain't the truth. Not knocking that cat, he could play the game and would probably be playing chess right now while most leaders are playing (Chinese?) checkers. (was that too soon? over the top? offensive?... I can't tell right now...).
The reason (maybe, what do I know...) people are not buying in to the mask issue is that they feel like they have been mislead SO MANY TIMES already about this crisis.
There is a significant chance that if we had just started washing our hands, wearing masks, reconfigured mass gatherings, and just stood a little bit farther away from each other, we would have accomplished what we accomplished without all the unemployment and bankruptcy.
Instead, we followed the lead of a communist country and several socialist countries on how to act - that seems odd and is actually impossible - and expected it to not to rock us economically and socially. We were terrified by a few (Western) countries with older populations that live on top of each other and kiss each other every time they meet, and we seemed shocked that the most populated area in our country was the one that needed just about ALL OUR RESOURCES and instead we spread them out all over out of fear, without noticing that 90% of America is completely unique and nothing like these places.
So - second outbreak? China has 10 million people locked in their house in a northern province, with the military going around taking temperatures and kidnapping those with a fever and removing them to "isolation." How many of those people will never be seen again? Would you put it past China to cap those cats and throw them in a ditch in order to save losing face over another outbreak? I have been there several times, and I wouldn't. I walked Tiananmen square in 2000 and saw sections of concrete that were different colors than others. It had to be replaced because they couldn't get all the blood off. That massacre, by the way, never happened according to their government.
So - second outbreak? How are we gonna react? Not like them. And we will have more disease and death because of it. But we will be better this time, with better testing, and our lifestyle will continue to return to what makes us great - our freedom.
I hope more and more people wear masks to save other peoples lives. But I also hope more and more people buy electric cars to save my kids and grandkids lives. And I hope more and more people eat better, and have access to preventative medicine, and I hope the tobacco industry ceases to exist. But I also know that this is America, and if somebody wants to drive a smoky SUV, eat hot dogs every day, never go to the doctor, and smoke 5 packs a day, they can.
I think it's a completely reasonable goal to be better prepared, wash our hands more, wear masks, and social distance in order to prevent a second wave that's bad enough to shut us down again.
But here's the kicker... as much as we might not like government, this is not something individual Americans can stop on their own. We need govt resources, especially when it comes to the best tool we've got to stop outbreaks early.... testing.
Which is why you can be angry at the media, the govt, political parties, etc. but at the end of the day it's on us to make it clear to both political parties that we expect govt. to do its job and control the virus well enough to prevent another shutdown.