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The Hawks now have 3 1st rd picks again next year...

WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

They added another first rd pick and 2 more 2nd rd picks last night.
More to ponder, does the team now trade The Chocolate Kraut ( Dennis Schroder) ? If so that will bring in either draft picks or a veteran player. Then there's Basemore, Budenholzer gave him a big contract, his spot will be owned by Huerter soon, will he be moved or will he be a backup ?

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Comments

  • donmdonm Posts: 10,241 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited June 2018

    @WCDawg said:
    They added another first rd pick and 2 more 2nd rd picks last night.
    More to ponder, does the team now trade The Chocolate Kraut ( Dennis Schroder) ? If so that will bring in either draft picks or a veteran player. Then there's Basemore, Budenholzer gave him a big contract, his spot will be owned by Huerter soon, will he be moved or will he be a backup ?

    I liked the concept....acquire skilled players (shooters) and more assets. The Hawks seem to be playing the "long game" or "The Process" or whatever you wish to call it. Even if their later picks become nothing but good reserves, it still seems smart to me. I'm just so unsure of how Trae Young will pan out. The # 3 pick became Trae Young and he has so many question marks surrounding him...height, build, defensive liabilities, turnovers in college, etc. etc. Just a little scary to me but...in the NBA, having one great skill (shooting in this case) seems to make up for a lot of deficiencies. The # 19 and # 30 picks provided shooters (especially Huerter, whom I have seen ranked as the # 3 shooter in the draft) and that is good. Two second round draft choices for a pretty darn good PG from Kansas seems "iffy" to me but time will tell

    SInce the first rounder is protected, no telling where it will end up. The Mavs finished out of the bottom 5 this year and, if they improve a little bit with Doncic, the pick may turn out to be pretty high.

    Again, I like them taking the long view to all of this.

  • KaseyKasey Posts: 18,641 mod

    My question is what is the market for Schroeder? Most teams have a PG

  • donmdonm Posts: 10,241 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @Kasey said:
    My question is what is the market for Schroeder? Most teams have a PG

    that is a good question. Hopefully, the GM can be a bit of a salesman and get max benefits if he trades DS. New coach might be able to work with Schroeder and, if so, he's a very talented piece. Great at penetrating into the lane and, with some shooters added, who knows.

  • PTDawgPTDawg Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    I wonder how much Schroeder's pending legal issues are a roadblock to trading him. I am surprised they didn't move some combination of him, Baze and Dedmon last night. Might not have gotten a good offer though. Don't want to just give assets away. Schlenk definitely seems to be taking the long view. Only time will tell.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @donm said:

    @WCDawg said:
    They added another first rd pick and 2 more 2nd rd picks last night.
    More to ponder, does the team now trade The Chocolate Kraut ( Dennis Schroder) ? If so that will bring in either draft picks or a veteran player. Then there's Basemore, Budenholzer gave him a big contract, his spot will be owned by Huerter soon, will he be moved or will he be a backup ?

    I liked the concept....acquire skilled players (shooters) and more assets. The Hawks seem to be playing the "long game" or "The Process" or whatever you wish to call it. Even if their later picks become nothing but good reserves, it still seems smart to me. I'm just so unsure of how Trae Young will pan out. The # 3 pick became Trae Young and he has so many question marks surrounding him...height, build, defensive liabilities, turnovers in college, etc. etc. Just a little scary to me but...in the NBA, having one great skill (shooting in this case) seems to make up for a lot of deficiencies. The # 19 and # 30 picks provided shooters (especially Huerter, whom I have seen ranked as the # 3 shooter in the draft) and that is good. Two second round draft choices for a pretty darn good PG from Kansas seems "iffy" to me but time will tell

    SInce the first rounder is protected, no telling where it will end up. The Mavs finished out of the bottom 5 this year and, if they improve a little bit with Doncic, the pick may turn out to be pretty high.

    Again, I like them taking the long view to all of this.

    Young has 2 great skills, shooting and passing. Don't forget he led college basketball in both scoring and assist. He also is an excellent ball handler, and is underrated at attacking the basket. He's not lightening fast, but he's very quick, he's agile and he has an innate ability to vary his speed to blow by defenders.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @PTDawg said:
    I wonder how much Schroeder's pending legal issues are a roadblock to trading him. I am surprised they didn't move some combination of him, Baze and Dedmon last night. Might not have gotten a good offer though. Don't want to just give assets away. Schlenk definitely seems to be taking the long view. Only time will tell.

    Schroder has value, I wouldn't just give him away. The team will need a second PG next season, whether as the starter or backup to Young.

  • PTDawgPTDawg Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    I agree. Based on SC comments he seems to think that the two can play beside each other. Not sure I see that being sustainable for long, particularly on the defensive end

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @PTDawg said:
    I agree. Based on SC comments he seems to think that the two can play beside each other. Not sure I see that being sustainable for long, particularly on the defensive end

    I agree, it seems like a bad idea.

  • MacDawg15MacDawg15 Posts: 3,057 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    I was sure hoping Williams from A&M would fall to us. Boston got a steal for that late in the 1st. Really like Huerter and was happy he was there at 19.

  • BankwalkerBankwalker Posts: 5,348 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Long view could also be seen as following the Cleveland Browns model.

  • donmdonm Posts: 10,241 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @Bankwalker said:
    Long view could also be seen as following the Cleveland Browns model.

    Geez, I hope not that long of a view. There is no end to that process!,

  • ChicagoDawgChicagoDawg Posts: 437 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @PTDawg said:
    I agree. Based on SC comments he seems to think that the two can play beside each other. Not sure I see that being sustainable for long, particularly on the defensive end

    The Hawks will not be worried about winning many games next year, so you may see times in the rotation when the two play together and one of them gets posted up a lot by bigger guards. I would look for Schroeder to start at the beginning of the season and Young to come off the bench but play 20+ minutes per game.

    The trade market is not good for Schroeder, so I think it makes sense to keep him for now. During the season, some team that is contending or just trying to make a push for the playoffs may have point guard issues or a key injury, or, if Schroeder picks up his shooting from the perimeter, someone may see him as an upgrade/ short term fix around the trade deadline. Then the Hawks may receive a lot more in return than they would now.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @ChicagoDawg said:

    @PTDawg said:
    I agree. Based on SC comments he seems to think that the two can play beside each other. Not sure I see that being sustainable for long, particularly on the defensive end

    The Hawks will not be worried about winning many games next year, so you may see times in the rotation when the two play together and one of them gets posted up a lot by bigger guards. I would look for Schroeder to start at the beginning of the season and Young to come off the bench but play 20+ minutes per game.

    The trade market is not good for Schroeder, so I think it makes sense to keep him for now. During the season, some team that is contending or just trying to make a push for the playoffs may have point guard issues or a key injury, or, if Schroeder picks up his shooting from the perimeter, someone may see him as an upgrade/ short term fix around the trade deadline. Then the Hawks may receive a lot more in return than they would now.

    Really the decision on Chocolate Kraut is about beyond this coming season.
    The question to ask, is he a long term asset who can be retained after the rebuild process ?
    If the answer is no, and I think it is, why not get what the market will yield for him while he'sunder contract ?
    Maybe it makes sense to keep him through the legal issue though, then look at the market when that isn't dragging down his value.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @MacDawg15 said:
    I was sure hoping Williams from A&M would fall to us. Boston got a steal for that late in the 1st. Really like Huerter and was happy he was there at 19.

    Huerter makes a lot of sense for what The Hawks are trying to build. I wish he had the defensive component like Thompson and Green at GS, but he can shoot, pass and drive. He's smart enough he should make a pretty good help defender as well.

  • ChicagoDawgChicagoDawg Posts: 437 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @WCDawg said:

    @ChicagoDawg said:

    @PTDawg said:
    I agree. Based on SC comments he seems to think that the two can play beside each other. Not sure I see that being sustainable for long, particularly on the defensive end

    The Hawks will not be worried about winning many games next year, so you may see times in the rotation when the two play together and one of them gets posted up a lot by bigger guards. I would look for Schroeder to start at the beginning of the season and Young to come off the bench but play 20+ minutes per game.

    The trade market is not good for Schroeder, so I think it makes sense to keep him for now. During the season, some team that is contending or just trying to make a push for the playoffs may have point guard issues or a key injury, or, if Schroeder picks up his shooting from the perimeter, someone may see him as an upgrade/ short term fix around the trade deadline. Then the Hawks may receive a lot more in return than they would now.

    Really the decision on Chocolate Kraut is about beyond this coming season.
    The question to ask, is he a long term asset who can be retained after the rebuild process ?
    If the answer is no, and I think it is, why not get what the market will yield for him while he'sunder contract ?
    Maybe it makes sense to keep him through the legal issue though, then look at the market when that isn't dragging down his value.

    I think the future of Schroeder with the Hawks was decided when the Hawks drafted Young. Schroeder is not going to be happy backing up to Young in the future. His history suggests that he may have difficulty handling his emotions as Young takes more of his minutes, so he will have to be moved at some point. I just think the best time will be during the season when another team really needs to make a move at PG due to injury or needs improvement at the position as they contend for a playoff spot/position. I just hope Dennis is working like crazy on his jump shot like he did after his rookie season. He is capable of being a good outside shooter if he dedicates himself in the off season.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @ChicagoDawg said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @ChicagoDawg said:

    @PTDawg said:
    I agree. Based on SC comments he seems to think that the two can play beside each other. Not sure I see that being sustainable for long, particularly on the defensive end

    The Hawks will not be worried about winning many games next year, so you may see times in the rotation when the two play together and one of them gets posted up a lot by bigger guards. I would look for Schroeder to start at the beginning of the season and Young to come off the bench but play 20+ minutes per game.

    The trade market is not good for Schroeder, so I think it makes sense to keep him for now. During the season, some team that is contending or just trying to make a push for the playoffs may have point guard issues or a key injury, or, if Schroeder picks up his shooting from the perimeter, someone may see him as an upgrade/ short term fix around the trade deadline. Then the Hawks may receive a lot more in return than they would now.

    Really the decision on Chocolate Kraut is about beyond this coming season.
    The question to ask, is he a long term asset who can be retained after the rebuild process ?
    If the answer is no, and I think it is, why not get what the market will yield for him while he'sunder contract ?
    Maybe it makes sense to keep him through the legal issue though, then look at the market when that isn't dragging down his value.

    I think the future of Schroeder with the Hawks was decided when the Hawks drafted Young. Schroeder is not going to be happy backing up to Young in the future. His history suggests that he may have difficulty handling his emotions as Young takes more of his minutes, so he will have to be moved at some point. I just think the best time will be during the season when another team really needs to make a move at PG due to injury or needs improvement at the position as they contend for a playoff spot/position. I just hope Dennis is working like crazy on his jump shot like he did after his rookie season. He is capable of being a good outside shooter if he dedicates himself in the off season.

    I think you're correct on both counts.
    Schroder wouldn't make sense long term, even without the drama. Finding the optimum deal will take time and getting this legal issue out of the picture will likely improve his marketability as well.
    Get the legal stuff resolved, don't poison the well with negative comments and see where things stand before the in-season trade deadline. An injury to a PG on a playoff level team could increase the return.

  • PTDawgPTDawg Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @WCDawg said:

    @ChicagoDawg said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @ChicagoDawg said:

    @PTDawg said:
    I agree. Based on SC comments he seems to think that the two can play beside each other. Not sure I see that being sustainable for long, particularly on the defensive end

    The Hawks will not be worried about winning many games next year, so you may see times in the rotation when the two play together and one of them gets posted up a lot by bigger guards. I would look for Schroeder to start at the beginning of the season and Young to come off the bench but play 20+ minutes per game.

    The trade market is not good for Schroeder, so I think it makes sense to keep him for now. During the season, some team that is contending or just trying to make a push for the playoffs may have point guard issues or a key injury, or, if Schroeder picks up his shooting from the perimeter, someone may see him as an upgrade/ short term fix around the trade deadline. Then the Hawks may receive a lot more in return than they would now.

    Really the decision on Chocolate Kraut is about beyond this coming season.
    The question to ask, is he a long term asset who can be retained after the rebuild process ?
    If the answer is no, and I think it is, why not get what the market will yield for him while he'sunder contract ?
    Maybe it makes sense to keep him through the legal issue though, then look at the market when that isn't dragging down his value.

    I think the future of Schroeder with the Hawks was decided when the Hawks drafted Young. Schroeder is not going to be happy backing up to Young in the future. His history suggests that he may have difficulty handling his emotions as Young takes more of his minutes, so he will have to be moved at some point. I just think the best time will be during the season when another team really needs to make a move at PG due to injury or needs improvement at the position as they contend for a playoff spot/position. I just hope Dennis is working like crazy on his jump shot like he did after his rookie season. He is capable of being a good outside shooter if he dedicates himself in the off season.

    I think you're correct on both counts.
    Schroder wouldn't make sense long term, even without the drama. Finding the optimum deal will take time and getting this legal issue out of the picture will likely improve his marketability as well.
    Get the legal stuff resolved, don't poison the well with negative comments and see where things stand before the in-season trade deadline. An injury to a PG on a playoff level team could increase the return.

    Agreed as well. At best I think they'll be able to flip him for future assets. A team in the market for a PG isn't going to also give up NBA-ready talent in a trade. If he could be flipped for pick(s) I think you take it.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @PTDawg said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @ChicagoDawg said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @ChicagoDawg said:

    @PTDawg said:
    I agree. Based on SC comments he seems to think that the two can play beside each other. Not sure I see that being sustainable for long, particularly on the defensive end

    The Hawks will not be worried about winning many games next year, so you may see times in the rotation when the two play together and one of them gets posted up a lot by bigger guards. I would look for Schroeder to start at the beginning of the season and Young to come off the bench but play 20+ minutes per game.

    The trade market is not good for Schroeder, so I think it makes sense to keep him for now. During the season, some team that is contending or just trying to make a push for the playoffs may have point guard issues or a key injury, or, if Schroeder picks up his shooting from the perimeter, someone may see him as an upgrade/ short term fix around the trade deadline. Then the Hawks may receive a lot more in return than they would now.

    Really the decision on Chocolate Kraut is about beyond this coming season.
    The question to ask, is he a long term asset who can be retained after the rebuild process ?
    If the answer is no, and I think it is, why not get what the market will yield for him while he'sunder contract ?
    Maybe it makes sense to keep him through the legal issue though, then look at the market when that isn't dragging down his value.

    I think the future of Schroeder with the Hawks was decided when the Hawks drafted Young. Schroeder is not going to be happy backing up to Young in the future. His history suggests that he may have difficulty handling his emotions as Young takes more of his minutes, so he will have to be moved at some point. I just think the best time will be during the season when another team really needs to make a move at PG due to injury or needs improvement at the position as they contend for a playoff spot/position. I just hope Dennis is working like crazy on his jump shot like he did after his rookie season. He is capable of being a good outside shooter if he dedicates himself in the off season.

    I think you're correct on both counts.
    Schroder wouldn't make sense long term, even without the drama. Finding the optimum deal will take time and getting this legal issue out of the picture will likely improve his marketability as well.
    Get the legal stuff resolved, don't poison the well with negative comments and see where things stand before the in-season trade deadline. An injury to a PG on a playoff level team could increase the return.

    Agreed as well. At best I think they'll be able to flip him for future assets. A team in the market for a PG isn't going to also give up NBA-ready talent in a trade. If he could be flipped for pick(s) I think you take it.

    Whether a team will give up NBA talent for a PG might depend on their roster. If a team has a surplus at SF and in need of a PG, they might well make a deal.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Here is something players' agents do ( Scott Boros !) when negotiating deals. They compile a list of the player's accomplishments.
    This is a list of EVERY PLAYER player in The NBA at any position who scored at least as many pts and had at least as many assist as Schroder this past season.

    Westbrook
    Lebron
    Hardin
    Simmons
    Lillard
    Those are all true stars, and DS is just 24 years old. There is something to market, it's a matter of getting past the negatives and finding a buyer.

  • donmdonm Posts: 10,241 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @WCDawg said:
    Here is something players' agents do ( Scott Boros !) when negotiating deals. They compile a list of the player's accomplishments.
    This is a list of EVERY PLAYER player in The NBA at any position who scored at least as many pts and had at least as many assist as Schroder this past season.

    Westbrook
    Lebron
    Hardin
    Simmons
    Lillard
    Those are all true stars, and DS is just 24 years old. There is something to market, it's a matter of getting past the negatives and finding a buyer.

    I guess I like him more than most on this forum. I see him as talented, maybe even gifted. If he only focused on hoops and didn't get involved in so much off the field junk. As you point out, he is young and talented...players like him don't grow on trees. He was a great pick as a young, European player that hardly anyone (including me) had ever heard of. If they move him, I hope they can get close to equal value in return.

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