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Why didn't NFL Televize our National Anthem? For me, that's even more offending... Just sayN'

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  • pgjacksonpgjackson Posts: 18,986 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @WCDawg said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @benjaminwgregg said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @SWARLES_BARKLEY said:

    @pgjackson said:

    Literally NOBODY is talking about the protest being about supposed police brutality. The only thing that has come of this is that it is an offense to the country and what the flag and anthem stands for.

    100% evidence that you’re ignoring everything you disagree with. It was 100% about police brutality. Protest is about whatever the protesters say it’s about, by definition. If I stand on the street corner and protest animal cruelty, nobody gets to tell me I’m disrespecting the elderly because I’m doing it on bingo night. My protest is what I say it is.

    Well, if you stand on a flag while protesting animal cruelty, then your protest will likely be interpreted as something other than what YOU want it to be about. For a protest to be effective, it need to be focused and detract from the original message. The fact that these players know that millions of veterans and others are highly offended by their conduct, and haven't adjusted their method of protest, leads me to believe it is about anti-America/veteran/patriot sentiment.

    But they have adjusted their method of protesting. Kaepernick initially sat during the anthem, but a veteran teammate asked him to kneel instead as its more respectful. The protest isn't about our troops but it is about Anerica. You can protest America w/o protesting lur troops.

    And you can protest equal rights without doing it during the one time when everyone is supposed to be respecting the flag and our anthem. To me (and millions of others), when you protest during the anthem, you are protesting against the entire country. You are offended by "America". These players are upset about one very small portion of this country. They should realize that their protest is unintentionally offending millions of people and adjust. Do something before or after the anthem. When the anthem is played, that is supposed to be the one time everyone shuts their pie-holes, stops complaining and arguing, and respect/acknowledge the fact that we live in the greatest country on Earth. Taking a knee is a big F-U to all of that.

    @pgjackson said:

    @benjaminwgregg said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @SWARLES_BARKLEY said:

    @pgjackson said:

    Literally NOBODY is talking about the protest being about supposed police brutality. The only thing that has come of this is that it is an offense to the country and what the flag and anthem stands for.

    100% evidence that you’re ignoring everything you disagree with. It was 100% about police brutality. Protest is about whatever the protesters say it’s about, by definition. If I stand on the street corner and protest animal cruelty, nobody gets to tell me I’m disrespecting the elderly because I’m doing it on bingo night. My protest is what I say it is.

    Well, if you stand on a flag while protesting animal cruelty, then your protest will likely be interpreted as something other than what YOU want it to be about. For a protest to be effective, it need to be focused and detract from the original message. The fact that these players know that millions of veterans and others are highly offended by their conduct, and haven't adjusted their method of protest, leads me to believe it is about anti-America/veteran/patriot sentiment.

    But they have adjusted their method of protesting. Kaepernick initially sat during the anthem, but a veteran teammate asked him to kneel instead as its more respectful. The protest isn't about our troops but it is about Anerica. You can protest America w/o protesting lur troops.

    And you can protest equal rights without doing it during the one time when everyone is supposed to be respecting the flag and our anthem. To me (and millions of others), when you protest during the anthem, you are protesting against the entire country. You are offended by "America". These players are upset about one very small portion of this country. They should realize that their protest is unintentionally offending millions of people and adjust. Do something before or after the anthem. When the anthem is played, that is supposed to be the one time everyone shuts their pie-holes, stops complaining and arguing, and respect/acknowledge the fact that we live in the greatest country on Earth. Taking a knee is a big F-U to all of that.

    @pgjackson said:

    @benjaminwgregg said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @SWARLES_BARKLEY said:

    @pgjackson said:

    Literally NOBODY is talking about the protest being about supposed police brutality. The only thing that has come of this is that it is an offense to the country and what the flag and anthem stands for.

    100% evidence that you’re ignoring everything you disagree with. It was 100% about police brutality. Protest is about whatever the protesters say it’s about, by definition. If I stand on the street corner and protest animal cruelty, nobody gets to tell me I’m disrespecting the elderly because I’m doing it on bingo night. My protest is what I say it is.

    Well, if you stand on a flag while protesting animal cruelty, then your protest will likely be interpreted as something other than what YOU want it to be about. For a protest to be effective, it need to be focused and detract from the original message. The fact that these players know that millions of veterans and others are highly offended by their conduct, and haven't adjusted their method of protest, leads me to believe it is about anti-America/veteran/patriot sentiment.

    But they have adjusted their method of protesting. Kaepernick initially sat during the anthem, but a veteran teammate asked him to kneel instead as its more respectful. The protest isn't about our troops but it is about Anerica. You can protest America w/o protesting lur troops.

    And you can protest equal rights without doing it during the one time when everyone is supposed to be respecting the flag and our anthem. To me (and millions of others), when you protest during the anthem, you are protesting against the entire country. You are offended by "America". These players are upset about one very small portion of this country. They should realize that their protest is unintentionally offending millions of people and adjust. Do something before or after the anthem. When the anthem is played, that is supposed to be the one time everyone shuts their pie-holes, stops complaining and arguing, and respect/acknowledge the fact that we live in the greatest country on Earth. Taking a knee is a big F-U to all of that.

    Let them express themselves as they see fit.
    Whether you like it or not the best proof of freedom is when a person can express unpopular beliefs openly.

    And i still have the freedom to call them out for their misguided protest, correct?

    Calling them out is not the same as demanding they behave as you'd prefer they do.

    Did I do that? I think what they are doing is wrong. I didn’t make demands. I didn’t call for anyone to be arrested. I back it up by choosing not to watch the NFL anymore or wear any of my NFL team paraphernalia. I encourage others to do the same.

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  • VALDOSTADAWGVALDOSTADAWG Posts: 1,468 mod

    @ugaforever said:
    Everyone has their stance on this issue. Stand where you want to stand. Let's just talk UGA football.

    Somebody finally said it.

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  • pgjacksonpgjackson Posts: 18,986 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @BigDawgEatin said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @CharlestowneDawg said:
    **As has been stated many times, the intent of the protest is not to disrespect our country's veterans. ** If one chooses to make it about that...then it is what it is. Players should be able to take a knee (knowing the inherent hiring/firing risks as NFL teams are private organizations) just as any of us can choose to watch or not watch. America!

    Why are NFL players protesting during the national anthem? Malcolm Jenkins and Anquan Boldin explain the issues: https://t.co/GDY8dR9wh6 pic.twitter.com/Su4DDLF1yz

    — Sports Illustrated (@SInow) September 25, 2017

    It doesn't matter what their "intent" is. It does offend veterans and a whole lot of other people as well. That's what matters. Taking a knee distracts from their original intent. Literally NOBODY is talking about the protest being about supposed police brutality. The only thing that has come of this is that it is an offense to the country and what the flag and anthem stands for. The players are too ignorant to realize that their protest isn't working. To be effective, they need to change their methods. And when the NFL as an organization allows it's employees to stage offensive protests in uniform, on company property on company time...well, then the NFL is complicit and supports the message. It's the same as if ALL the NFL is taking a knee. That's how I, and millions of others, see it.

    It must be doing something, it’s got you taking the time out of your day, to call some young talent black men ignorant, for no apparent reason. You sir need to open your eyes and ears, maybe turn off Fox Mews for a while.

    They are ignorant of the fact that their protest is ineffective in it ‘s original intent. The discussion has morphed into a disrespect of the flag issue and not police brutality issue. They are ignorant, or at least unsympathetic, of the fact that kneeling during the anthem is HIGHLY offensive to many veterans. They are ignorant of the fact that kneeling during the anthem is HIGHLY disrespectful to the flag and what it stands for....America. It is not the flag of the police. It is the flag of our country. The Anthem is supposed to be the one time everyone stands in unity.

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  • SWARLES_BARKLEYSWARLES_BARKLEY Posts: 308 ✭✭✭✭ Senior

    Every form of protest is dismissed, somehow, by those who want to ignore what’s wrong.

    You can look back at civil disobedience during the civil rights movement in the 60s, where MLK and countless other American heroes were told to shut up and show some respect. That marching in streets or refusing to move on the bus was disrespectful. “It’s disrespectful” has always been the #1 crutch of those who oppose progress.

    I’m not saying that anyone who has the opinion that kneeling is disrespectful is racist. I am, however, suggesting that people think long and hard about underlying motivations and our human faults/weaknesses that may be leading us to use the excuse of “it’s disrespectful” or “it’s offensive” to quiet protestors.

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  • SWARLES_BARKLEYSWARLES_BARKLEY Posts: 308 ✭✭✭✭ Senior

    @pgjackson said:
    The discussion has morphed into a disrespect of the flag issue and not police brutality issue. They are ignorant, ...

    So in other words, the message of the protest has been heard by those who disagree, rejected, and the conversation shifted to make yourself the victim, rather that the victims of police brutality.

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  • pgjacksonpgjackson Posts: 18,986 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @SWARLES_BARKLEY said:
    Every form of protest is dismissed, somehow, by those who want to ignore what’s wrong.

    You can look back at civil disobedience during the civil rights movement in the 60s, where MLK and countless other American heroes were told to shut up and show some respect. That marching in streets or refusing to move on the bus was disrespectful. “It’s disrespectful” has always been the #1 crutch of those who oppose progress.

    I’m not saying that anyone who has the opinion that kneeling is disrespectful is racist. I am, however, suggesting that people think long and hard about underlying motivations and our human faults/weaknesses that may be leading us to use the excuse of “it’s disrespectful” or “it’s offensive” to quiet protestors.

    I agree in general, but protesting during the national anthem will always be offensive no matter what. I am sympathetic to their cause, but completely offended by their method. Now it’s to the point where it’s become a “you can’t tell me what to do” deal...and the NFL is scared to put it’s foot down.

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  • otis1105otis1105 Posts: 324 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @WCDawg said:
    I learned a lesson from the gay rights movement in the 1990s through Bush's presidency. I thought it was counter productive to demand the ability to legally get married. It DID cause huge pushback but ultimately it brought about attention and advanced their cause more quickly than if they'd asked for less.

    That could be true. I was still peeing my pants for a few years in the early 90s so my knowledge is limited. I just wish people with influence would use it well once attention has been drawn to the issue. And that goes for athletes and politicians.

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  • BigDawgEatinBigDawgEatin Posts: 1,684 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @pgjackson said:

    @BigDawgEatin said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @CharlestowneDawg said:
    **As has been stated many times, the intent of the protest is not to disrespect our country's veterans. ** If one chooses to make it about that...then it is what it is. Players should be able to take a knee (knowing the inherent hiring/firing risks as NFL teams are private organizations) just as any of us can choose to watch or not watch. America!

    Why are NFL players protesting during the national anthem? Malcolm Jenkins and Anquan Boldin explain the issues: https://t.co/GDY8dR9wh6 pic.twitter.com/Su4DDLF1yz

    — Sports Illustrated (@SInow) September 25, 2017

    It doesn't matter what their "intent" is. It does offend veterans and a whole lot of other people as well. That's what matters. Taking a knee distracts from their original intent. Literally NOBODY is talking about the protest being about supposed police brutality. The only thing that has come of this is that it is an offense to the country and what the flag and anthem stands for. The players are too ignorant to realize that their protest isn't working. To be effective, they need to change their methods. And when the NFL as an organization allows it's employees to stage offensive protests in uniform, on company property on company time...well, then the NFL is complicit and supports the message. It's the same as if ALL the NFL is taking a knee. That's how I, and millions of others, see it.

    It must be doing something, it’s got you taking the time out of your day, to call some young talent black men ignorant, for no apparent reason. You sir need to open your eyes and ears, maybe turn off Fox Mews for a while.

    They are ignorant of the fact that their protest is ineffective in it ‘s original intent. The discussion has morphed into a disrespect of the flag issue and not police brutality issue. They are ignorant, or at least unsympathetic, of the fact that kneeling during the anthem is HIGHLY offensive to many veterans. They are ignorant of the fact that kneeling during the anthem is HIGHLY disrespectful to the flag and what it stands for....America. It is not the flag of the police. It is the flag of our country. The Anthem is supposed to be the one time everyone stands in unity.

    You are ignorant to black homicide by people paid to protect. You are unsympathetic/disrespectful for ignoring state sponsored genocide. The flag is worthless to a people who pledge aligence to a country that has no aligence to them. Until you understand that you will keep making these ill-informed simplistic statements.

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  • SWARLES_BARKLEYSWARLES_BARKLEY Posts: 308 ✭✭✭✭ Senior

    @pgjackson said:

    @SWARLES_BARKLEY said:
    Every form of protest is dismissed, somehow, by those who want to ignore what’s wrong.

    You can look back at civil disobedience during the civil rights movement in the 60s, where MLK and countless other American heroes were told to shut up and show some respect. That marching in streets or refusing to move on the bus was disrespectful. “It’s disrespectful” has always been the #1 crutch of those who oppose progress.

    I’m not saying that anyone who has the opinion that kneeling is disrespectful is racist. I am, however, suggesting that people think long and hard about underlying motivations and our human faults/weaknesses that may be leading us to use the excuse of “it’s disrespectful” or “it’s offensive” to quiet protestors.

    I agree in general, but protesting during the national anthem will always be offensive no matter what. I am sympathetic to their cause, but completely offended by their method. Now it’s to the point where it’s become a “you can’t tell me what to do” deal...and the NFL is scared to put it’s foot down.

    But it’s not that cut and dry. Some people think it’s offensive. Most don’t.

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-do-americans-feel-about-the-nfl-protests-it-depends-on-how-you-ask/

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  • pgjacksonpgjackson Posts: 18,986 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @BigDawgEatin said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @BigDawgEatin said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @CharlestowneDawg said:
    **As has been stated many times, the intent of the protest is not to disrespect our country's veterans. ** If one chooses to make it about that...then it is what it is. Players should be able to take a knee (knowing the inherent hiring/firing risks as NFL teams are private organizations) just as any of us can choose to watch or not watch. America!

    Why are NFL players protesting during the national anthem? Malcolm Jenkins and Anquan Boldin explain the issues: https://t.co/GDY8dR9wh6 pic.twitter.com/Su4DDLF1yz

    — Sports Illustrated (@SInow) September 25, 2017

    It doesn't matter what their "intent" is. It does offend veterans and a whole lot of other people as well. That's what matters. Taking a knee distracts from their original intent. Literally NOBODY is talking about the protest being about supposed police brutality. The only thing that has come of this is that it is an offense to the country and what the flag and anthem stands for. The players are too ignorant to realize that their protest isn't working. To be effective, they need to change their methods. And when the NFL as an organization allows it's employees to stage offensive protests in uniform, on company property on company time...well, then the NFL is complicit and supports the message. It's the same as if ALL the NFL is taking a knee. That's how I, and millions of others, see it.

    It must be doing something, it’s got you taking the time out of your day, to call some young talent black men ignorant, for no apparent reason. You sir need to open your eyes and ears, maybe turn off Fox Mews for a while.

    They are ignorant of the fact that their protest is ineffective in it ‘s original intent. The discussion has morphed into a disrespect of the flag issue and not police brutality issue. They are ignorant, or at least unsympathetic, of the fact that kneeling during the anthem is HIGHLY offensive to many veterans. They are ignorant of the fact that kneeling during the anthem is HIGHLY disrespectful to the flag and what it stands for....America. It is not the flag of the police. It is the flag of our country. The Anthem is supposed to be the one time everyone stands in unity.

    You are ignorant to black homicide by people paid to protect. You are unsympathetic/disrespectful for ignoring state sponsored genocide. The flag is worthless to a people who pledge aligence to a country that has no aligence to them. Until you understand that you will keep making these ill-informed simplistic statements.

    State sponsored genocide? Ok, you are clearly not dealing with reality. Your bias is revealed. It is worthless to try to have a discussion with someone who thinks this is happening.

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  • TeddyTeddy Posts: 7,109 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @BigDawgEatin said:

    @greshamdisco said:
    The original point was made. At this stage, it is more about the players proving they can override the owners’ desires and grandstand. When are the 1% of the players satisfied with an accomplished goal? What’s the endgame? Is your method of protest helping or hurting your cause? If your protest has no strategy, it is just a power struggle and a players v owners thing now, nothing about a policeman or kid getting hit. Players: put your money where your mouth is - invest in poorer communities. Meanwhile, stand up and show respect to your customers.

    Fortunately you are not the customer, the advertisers are, as long as the don’t care, the NFL can give two shyts about your opinion. You guys care about disrespecting the flag sooooooo much, but don’t say a word about a President who blatantly disrespects and embarrasses the entire nation on a daily basis.

    Not getting into the political debate, as this topic seems to pop up every month or two, but we are the NFL’s customers. Those advertisers wouldn’t advertise if there were no eyeballs watching. And for better or worse, there’s been a decent drop in who’s watching the NFL right now.

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  • benjaminwgreggbenjaminwgregg Posts: 677 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @Teddy said:

    @BigDawgEatin said:

    @greshamdisco said:
    The original point was made. At this stage, it is more about the players proving they can override the owners’ desires and grandstand. When are the 1% of the players satisfied with an accomplished goal? What’s the endgame? Is your method of protest helping or hurting your cause? If your protest has no strategy, it is just a power struggle and a players v owners thing now, nothing about a policeman or kid getting hit. Players: put your money where your mouth is - invest in poorer communities. Meanwhile, stand up and show respect to your customers.

    Fortunately you are not the customer, the advertisers are, as long as the don’t care, the NFL can give two shyts about your opinion. You guys care about disrespecting the flag sooooooo much, but don’t say a word about a President who blatantly disrespects and embarrasses the entire nation on a daily basis.

    Not getting into the political debate, as this topic seems to pop up every month or two, but we are the NFL’s customers. Those advertisers wouldn’t advertise if there were no eyeballs watching. And for better or worse, there’s been a decent drop in who’s watching the NFL right now.

    All tv is dropping. As far as I am aware, NFL lost fewer viewers relative to other television last season.

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  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @bobby said:

    @dawgwatch said:
    I wonder how many of those that feel the need to kneel and protest have spent a dime of the millions of dollars they are making while kneeling and actually trying to make a difference in their hometown. While I believe there is never a time to kneel during the NA and protest what gave you the right to protest to start with, show me what your willing to do to help the situation. I you want to make a difference in your community as an NFL player someone will give you the platform to make that said difference.

    And when they do....they get told to "shut up and dribble."

    Well played.

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