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Why didn't NFL Televize our National Anthem? For me, that's even more offending... Just sayN'

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Comments

  • SWARLES_BARKLEYSWARLES_BARKLEY Posts: 308 ✭✭✭✭ Senior

    @pgjackson said:

    @SWARLES_BARKLEY said:

    @pgjackson said:

    Literally NOBODY is talking about the protest being about supposed police brutality. The only thing that has come of this is that it is an offense to the country and what the flag and anthem stands for.

    100% evidence that you’re ignoring everything you disagree with. It was 100% about police brutality. Protest is about whatever the protesters say it’s about, by definition. If I stand on the street corner and protest animal cruelty, nobody gets to tell me I’m disrespecting the elderly because I’m doing it on bingo night. My protest is what I say it is.

    Well, if you stand on a flag while protesting animal cruelty, then your protest will likely be interpreted as something other than what YOU want it to be about. For a protest to be effective, it need to be focused and detract from the original message. The fact that these players know that millions of veterans and others are highly offended by their conduct, and haven't adjusted their method of protest, leads me to believe it is about anti-America/veteran/patriot sentiment.

    No, it means that the supposed millions aren’t listening to the ones protesting. They’re just kneeling. They aren’t standing on flags, burning them, or turning their backs to the flag. They’re still saluting them, for **** sake. That is not disrespect.

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  • CatfishCatfish Posts: 1,703 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    I served 20 years defending our country. I take it personally, however they have a right to protest even as it destroys the very thing they have worked so hard to achieve.

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  • JayDogJayDog Posts: 5,569 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    So, let me get this straight. People can do or say what they want so long as their "intent" is clearly stated? Doesn't matter if the word or action is offensive to others because the "intent" was not to offend? When I acted silly growing up, my mom would call me a "****". My sister still calls me that playful name. But if the word is applied to an African-American who acts silly, it is racist no matter the intent.

    Don't tell us the action or word doesn't matter if the "intent" is not to offend. Kneeling during the anthem, regardless of intent, is offensive.

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  • otis1105otis1105 Posts: 324 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    The nfl handled it poorly from the start. That being said I wish instead of making it about kneeling that once Kap and others got recognition for what they were doing, I wish they had taken that message and their influence to contact their sentators/congressmen/police commissioners and talked about issues and tried to impact real change. Instead it caused more division and each extreme dug even further into their views. And it’s caused more issues than solution.

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  • pgjacksonpgjackson Posts: 18,986 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @SWARLES_BARKLEY said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @SWARLES_BARKLEY said:

    @pgjackson said:

    Literally NOBODY is talking about the protest being about supposed police brutality. The only thing that has come of this is that it is an offense to the country and what the flag and anthem stands for.

    100% evidence that you’re ignoring everything you disagree with. It was 100% about police brutality. Protest is about whatever the protesters say it’s about, by definition. If I stand on the street corner and protest animal cruelty, nobody gets to tell me I’m disrespecting the elderly because I’m doing it on bingo night. My protest is what I say it is.

    Well, if you stand on a flag while protesting animal cruelty, then your protest will likely be interpreted as something other than what YOU want it to be about. For a protest to be effective, it need to be focused and detract from the original message. The fact that these players know that millions of veterans and others are highly offended by their conduct, and haven't adjusted their method of protest, leads me to believe it is about anti-America/veteran/patriot sentiment.

    No, it means that the supposed millions aren’t listening to the ones protesting. They’re just kneeling. They aren’t standing on flags, burning them, or turning their backs to the flag. They’re still saluting them, for **** sake. That is not disrespect.

    Seriously? There is a protocol that is expected to be observed in the presence of the flag and when the national Anthem is played. It is incredibly offensive to intentionally ignore basic protocol. You stand for the anthem. Always. It's simple. Taking a knee is the exact opposite. It's worse than a refusal to stand. Here's an excerpt of the US Flag Code. Some of us take this VERY seriously. If you don't think taking a knee is offensive, well, I don't know what else to say.

    US Flag Code:
    §171. Conduct during playing
    During rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should render the military salute at the first note of the anthem and retain this position until the last note. When the flag is not displayed, those present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed there.

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  • benjaminwgreggbenjaminwgregg Posts: 677 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @pgjackson said:

    @SWARLES_BARKLEY said:

    @pgjackson said:

    Literally NOBODY is talking about the protest being about supposed police brutality. The only thing that has come of this is that it is an offense to the country and what the flag and anthem stands for.

    100% evidence that you’re ignoring everything you disagree with. It was 100% about police brutality. Protest is about whatever the protesters say it’s about, by definition. If I stand on the street corner and protest animal cruelty, nobody gets to tell me I’m disrespecting the elderly because I’m doing it on bingo night. My protest is what I say it is.

    Well, if you stand on a flag while protesting animal cruelty, then your protest will likely be interpreted as something other than what YOU want it to be about. For a protest to be effective, it need to be focused and detract from the original message. The fact that these players know that millions of veterans and others are highly offended by their conduct, and haven't adjusted their method of protest, leads me to believe it is about anti-America/veteran/patriot sentiment.

    But they have adjusted their method of protesting. Kaepernick initially sat during the anthem, but a veteran teammate asked him to kneel instead as its more respectful. The protest isn't about our troops but it is about Anerica. You can protest America w/o protesting lur troops.

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  • umoonerumooner Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @FirePlugDawg said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @CharlestowneDawg said:
    **As has been stated many times, the intent of the protest is not to disrespect our country's veterans. ** If one chooses to make it about that...then it is what it is. Players should be able to take a knee (knowing the inherent hiring/firing risks as NFL teams are private organizations) just as any of us can choose to watch or not watch. America!

    Why are NFL players protesting during the national anthem? Malcolm Jenkins and Anquan Boldin explain the issues: https://t.co/GDY8dR9wh6 pic.twitter.com/Su4DDLF1yz

    — Sports Illustrated (@SInow) September 25, 2017

    It doesn't matter what their "intent" is. It does offend veterans and a whole lot of other people as well. That's what matters. Taking a knee distracts from their original intent. Literally NOBODY is talking about the protest being about supposed police brutality. The only thing that has come of this is that it is an offense to the country and what the flag and anthem stands for. The players are too ignorant to realize that their protest isn't working. To be effective, they need to change their methods. And when the NFL as an organization allows it's employees to stage offensive protests in uniform, on company property on company time...well, then the NFL is complicit and supports the message. It's the same as if ALL the NFL is taking a knee. That's how I, and millions of others, see it.

    Before I start, this OP is POLITICAL and should be closed (or whatever it is to get rid of it.) It is under General category, but should be OFF TOPIC if anything.

    I am a veteran and not offended. I've come to question why there is a NA at a paid commercial event in the first place. It is likely because the NFL and other pro sports get exemption from anti-trust, and it is a rah-rah for that. Originally I thought it was a cold war thing but the NA was played before WW2 in some venues. Regardless, if there is no NA, then there is no kneeling, etc. to put sensitive ones' panties in a bunch. Keep that in mind.

    My solution is to play the NA before the teams take the field. Issue solved, unless some other millionaire team employees decide to kneel. Get over it. Support efforts to raise the level of hiring, training and diversity in your local police forces. That is a positive response.

    The NFL changed the rule so the players had to be out on the field for the anthem because they knew showing patriotism was good for business. It has not been the rule that long.

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  • pgjacksonpgjackson Posts: 18,986 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @benjaminwgregg said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @SWARLES_BARKLEY said:

    @pgjackson said:

    Literally NOBODY is talking about the protest being about supposed police brutality. The only thing that has come of this is that it is an offense to the country and what the flag and anthem stands for.

    100% evidence that you’re ignoring everything you disagree with. It was 100% about police brutality. Protest is about whatever the protesters say it’s about, by definition. If I stand on the street corner and protest animal cruelty, nobody gets to tell me I’m disrespecting the elderly because I’m doing it on bingo night. My protest is what I say it is.

    Well, if you stand on a flag while protesting animal cruelty, then your protest will likely be interpreted as something other than what YOU want it to be about. For a protest to be effective, it need to be focused and detract from the original message. The fact that these players know that millions of veterans and others are highly offended by their conduct, and haven't adjusted their method of protest, leads me to believe it is about anti-America/veteran/patriot sentiment.

    But they have adjusted their method of protesting. Kaepernick initially sat during the anthem, but a veteran teammate asked him to kneel instead as its more respectful. The protest isn't about our troops but it is about Anerica. You can protest America w/o protesting lur troops.

    And you can protest equal rights without doing it during the one time when everyone is supposed to be respecting the flag and our anthem. To me (and millions of others), when you protest during the anthem, you are protesting against the entire country. You are offended by "America". These players are upset about one very small portion of this country. They should realize that their protest is unintentionally offending millions of people and adjust. Do something before or after the anthem. When the anthem is played, that is supposed to be the one time everyone shuts their pie-holes, stops complaining and arguing, and respect/acknowledge the fact that we live in the greatest country on Earth. Taking a knee is a big F-U to all of that.

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  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    We fight for freedom, it's not freedom to demand others believe as you do.

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  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @pgjackson said:

    @benjaminwgregg said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @SWARLES_BARKLEY said:

    @pgjackson said:

    Literally NOBODY is talking about the protest being about supposed police brutality. The only thing that has come of this is that it is an offense to the country and what the flag and anthem stands for.

    100% evidence that you’re ignoring everything you disagree with. It was 100% about police brutality. Protest is about whatever the protesters say it’s about, by definition. If I stand on the street corner and protest animal cruelty, nobody gets to tell me I’m disrespecting the elderly because I’m doing it on bingo night. My protest is what I say it is.

    Well, if you stand on a flag while protesting animal cruelty, then your protest will likely be interpreted as something other than what YOU want it to be about. For a protest to be effective, it need to be focused and detract from the original message. The fact that these players know that millions of veterans and others are highly offended by their conduct, and haven't adjusted their method of protest, leads me to believe it is about anti-America/veteran/patriot sentiment.

    But they have adjusted their method of protesting. Kaepernick initially sat during the anthem, but a veteran teammate asked him to kneel instead as its more respectful. The protest isn't about our troops but it is about Anerica. You can protest America w/o protesting lur troops.

    And you can protest equal rights without doing it during the one time when everyone is supposed to be respecting the flag and our anthem. To me (and millions of others), when you protest during the anthem, you are protesting against the entire country. You are offended by "America". These players are upset about one very small portion of this country. They should realize that their protest is unintentionally offending millions of people and adjust. Do something before or after the anthem. When the anthem is played, that is supposed to be the one time everyone shuts their pie-holes, stops complaining and arguing, and respect/acknowledge the fact that we live in the greatest country on Earth. Taking a knee is a big F-U to all of that.

    @pgjackson said:

    @benjaminwgregg said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @SWARLES_BARKLEY said:

    @pgjackson said:

    Literally NOBODY is talking about the protest being about supposed police brutality. The only thing that has come of this is that it is an offense to the country and what the flag and anthem stands for.

    100% evidence that you’re ignoring everything you disagree with. It was 100% about police brutality. Protest is about whatever the protesters say it’s about, by definition. If I stand on the street corner and protest animal cruelty, nobody gets to tell me I’m disrespecting the elderly because I’m doing it on bingo night. My protest is what I say it is.

    Well, if you stand on a flag while protesting animal cruelty, then your protest will likely be interpreted as something other than what YOU want it to be about. For a protest to be effective, it need to be focused and detract from the original message. The fact that these players know that millions of veterans and others are highly offended by their conduct, and haven't adjusted their method of protest, leads me to believe it is about anti-America/veteran/patriot sentiment.

    But they have adjusted their method of protesting. Kaepernick initially sat during the anthem, but a veteran teammate asked him to kneel instead as its more respectful. The protest isn't about our troops but it is about Anerica. You can protest America w/o protesting lur troops.

    And you can protest equal rights without doing it during the one time when everyone is supposed to be respecting the flag and our anthem. To me (and millions of others), when you protest during the anthem, you are protesting against the entire country. You are offended by "America". These players are upset about one very small portion of this country. They should realize that their protest is unintentionally offending millions of people and adjust. Do something before or after the anthem. When the anthem is played, that is supposed to be the one time everyone shuts their pie-holes, stops complaining and arguing, and respect/acknowledge the fact that we live in the greatest country on Earth. Taking a knee is a big F-U to all of that.

    @pgjackson said:

    @benjaminwgregg said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @SWARLES_BARKLEY said:

    @pgjackson said:

    Literally NOBODY is talking about the protest being about supposed police brutality. The only thing that has come of this is that it is an offense to the country and what the flag and anthem stands for.

    100% evidence that you’re ignoring everything you disagree with. It was 100% about police brutality. Protest is about whatever the protesters say it’s about, by definition. If I stand on the street corner and protest animal cruelty, nobody gets to tell me I’m disrespecting the elderly because I’m doing it on bingo night. My protest is what I say it is.

    Well, if you stand on a flag while protesting animal cruelty, then your protest will likely be interpreted as something other than what YOU want it to be about. For a protest to be effective, it need to be focused and detract from the original message. The fact that these players know that millions of veterans and others are highly offended by their conduct, and haven't adjusted their method of protest, leads me to believe it is about anti-America/veteran/patriot sentiment.

    But they have adjusted their method of protesting. Kaepernick initially sat during the anthem, but a veteran teammate asked him to kneel instead as its more respectful. The protest isn't about our troops but it is about Anerica. You can protest America w/o protesting lur troops.

    And you can protest equal rights without doing it during the one time when everyone is supposed to be respecting the flag and our anthem. To me (and millions of others), when you protest during the anthem, you are protesting against the entire country. You are offended by "America". These players are upset about one very small portion of this country. They should realize that their protest is unintentionally offending millions of people and adjust. Do something before or after the anthem. When the anthem is played, that is supposed to be the one time everyone shuts their pie-holes, stops complaining and arguing, and respect/acknowledge the fact that we live in the greatest country on Earth. Taking a knee is a big F-U to all of that.

    Let them express themselves as they see fit.
    Whether you like it or not the best proof of freedom is when a person can express unpopular beliefs openly.

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  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @otis1105 said:
    The nfl handled it poorly from the start. That being said I wish instead of making it about kneeling that once Kap and others got recognition for what they were doing, I wish they had taken that message and their influence to contact their sentators/congressmen/police commissioners and talked about issues and tried to impact real change. Instead it caused more division and each extreme dug even further into their views. And it’s caused more issues than solution.

    @otis1105 said:
    The nfl handled it poorly from the start. That being said I wish instead of making it about kneeling that once Kap and others got recognition for what they were doing, I wish they had taken that message and their influence to contact their sentators/congressmen/police commissioners and talked about issues and tried to impact real change. Instead it caused more division and each extreme dug even further into their views. And it’s caused more issues than solution.

    I learned a lesson from the gay rights movement in the 1990s through Bush's presidency. I thought it was counter productive to demand the ability to legally get married. It DID cause huge pushback but ultimately it brought about attention and advanced their cause more quickly than if they'd asked for less.

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  • UnderDog68UnderDog68 Posts: 3,109 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    My take is this:

    1. You're on the job. Save the protests for your off-time. I'm not allowed to protest anything on my work time.
    2. Anyone see the NFL players protesting during the off-season? Thought so.
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  • pgjacksonpgjackson Posts: 18,986 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @WCDawg said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @benjaminwgregg said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @SWARLES_BARKLEY said:

    @pgjackson said:

    Literally NOBODY is talking about the protest being about supposed police brutality. The only thing that has come of this is that it is an offense to the country and what the flag and anthem stands for.

    100% evidence that you’re ignoring everything you disagree with. It was 100% about police brutality. Protest is about whatever the protesters say it’s about, by definition. If I stand on the street corner and protest animal cruelty, nobody gets to tell me I’m disrespecting the elderly because I’m doing it on bingo night. My protest is what I say it is.

    Well, if you stand on a flag while protesting animal cruelty, then your protest will likely be interpreted as something other than what YOU want it to be about. For a protest to be effective, it need to be focused and detract from the original message. The fact that these players know that millions of veterans and others are highly offended by their conduct, and haven't adjusted their method of protest, leads me to believe it is about anti-America/veteran/patriot sentiment.

    But they have adjusted their method of protesting. Kaepernick initially sat during the anthem, but a veteran teammate asked him to kneel instead as its more respectful. The protest isn't about our troops but it is about Anerica. You can protest America w/o protesting lur troops.

    And you can protest equal rights without doing it during the one time when everyone is supposed to be respecting the flag and our anthem. To me (and millions of others), when you protest during the anthem, you are protesting against the entire country. You are offended by "America". These players are upset about one very small portion of this country. They should realize that their protest is unintentionally offending millions of people and adjust. Do something before or after the anthem. When the anthem is played, that is supposed to be the one time everyone shuts their pie-holes, stops complaining and arguing, and respect/acknowledge the fact that we live in the greatest country on Earth. Taking a knee is a big F-U to all of that.

    @pgjackson said:

    @benjaminwgregg said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @SWARLES_BARKLEY said:

    @pgjackson said:

    Literally NOBODY is talking about the protest being about supposed police brutality. The only thing that has come of this is that it is an offense to the country and what the flag and anthem stands for.

    100% evidence that you’re ignoring everything you disagree with. It was 100% about police brutality. Protest is about whatever the protesters say it’s about, by definition. If I stand on the street corner and protest animal cruelty, nobody gets to tell me I’m disrespecting the elderly because I’m doing it on bingo night. My protest is what I say it is.

    Well, if you stand on a flag while protesting animal cruelty, then your protest will likely be interpreted as something other than what YOU want it to be about. For a protest to be effective, it need to be focused and detract from the original message. The fact that these players know that millions of veterans and others are highly offended by their conduct, and haven't adjusted their method of protest, leads me to believe it is about anti-America/veteran/patriot sentiment.

    But they have adjusted their method of protesting. Kaepernick initially sat during the anthem, but a veteran teammate asked him to kneel instead as its more respectful. The protest isn't about our troops but it is about Anerica. You can protest America w/o protesting lur troops.

    And you can protest equal rights without doing it during the one time when everyone is supposed to be respecting the flag and our anthem. To me (and millions of others), when you protest during the anthem, you are protesting against the entire country. You are offended by "America". These players are upset about one very small portion of this country. They should realize that their protest is unintentionally offending millions of people and adjust. Do something before or after the anthem. When the anthem is played, that is supposed to be the one time everyone shuts their pie-holes, stops complaining and arguing, and respect/acknowledge the fact that we live in the greatest country on Earth. Taking a knee is a big F-U to all of that.

    @pgjackson said:

    @benjaminwgregg said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @SWARLES_BARKLEY said:

    @pgjackson said:

    Literally NOBODY is talking about the protest being about supposed police brutality. The only thing that has come of this is that it is an offense to the country and what the flag and anthem stands for.

    100% evidence that you’re ignoring everything you disagree with. It was 100% about police brutality. Protest is about whatever the protesters say it’s about, by definition. If I stand on the street corner and protest animal cruelty, nobody gets to tell me I’m disrespecting the elderly because I’m doing it on bingo night. My protest is what I say it is.

    Well, if you stand on a flag while protesting animal cruelty, then your protest will likely be interpreted as something other than what YOU want it to be about. For a protest to be effective, it need to be focused and detract from the original message. The fact that these players know that millions of veterans and others are highly offended by their conduct, and haven't adjusted their method of protest, leads me to believe it is about anti-America/veteran/patriot sentiment.

    But they have adjusted their method of protesting. Kaepernick initially sat during the anthem, but a veteran teammate asked him to kneel instead as its more respectful. The protest isn't about our troops but it is about Anerica. You can protest America w/o protesting lur troops.

    And you can protest equal rights without doing it during the one time when everyone is supposed to be respecting the flag and our anthem. To me (and millions of others), when you protest during the anthem, you are protesting against the entire country. You are offended by "America". These players are upset about one very small portion of this country. They should realize that their protest is unintentionally offending millions of people and adjust. Do something before or after the anthem. When the anthem is played, that is supposed to be the one time everyone shuts their pie-holes, stops complaining and arguing, and respect/acknowledge the fact that we live in the greatest country on Earth. Taking a knee is a big F-U to all of that.

    Let them express themselves as they see fit.
    Whether you like it or not the best proof of freedom is when a person can express unpopular beliefs openly.

    And i still have the freedom to call them out for their misguided protest, correct?

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  • donmdonm Posts: 10,241 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @bobby said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @bobby said:
    " Literally NOBODY is talking about the protest being about supposed police brutality. "

    You're not paying attention.

    I am paying attention. This kneeling thing has become about respecting the flag and our nation, not about racial equality or police brutality (which was the original intent). Do something else that doesn't distract from the message. I support their right to voice their opinion, but doing it during such a sacred part of culture and national identity is incredibly offensive to millions. Even though these players say that aren't trying to offend veterans and others...they ARE offending us. That's when they need to realize that it's not working and come up with a better form of protest.

    You're completely wrong. And on a personal note....Don't be such a snowflake.

    oh oh. Here's that snowflake reference again. Glad I know what it means now.

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