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The Braves fired their pithing coach after having the 7th lowest ERA in MLB in 2018...

WCDawg

Hernandez is 38 and our young staff was developing nicely under his tutelage.They replaced him with Kranitz who is 60 years old and coached The Phillies to the 18th best ERA in MLB. Krantiz had 1 season with exceptional results and a bunch more bad to average years.

I don't get it.

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WCDawg

GeorgiaGirl. You're reaching conclusions that are really speculation. I give credit to the position coach.

GeorgiaGirl

It hasn't just been me that has been lending a lot more credit to the FO than coaching for ML pitching...

My biggest issue is that they’ve consistently brought pitchers to the big leagues that’ve had glaring holes in their pitch repertoires, almost always their fastballs. When every pitcher developed in the Braves minor leagues has come to the majors with a fastball that plays way down for one reason or another (low spin, wasted spin, poor command) it makes me think that there’s an issue with the way they’re developing the way their pitchers are throwing that pitch. In an era where the best teams have been exploiting the ability to create dynamic fastballs by improving overall spin or at least spin efficiency, we rank near the bottom, and two of our three best pitching prospects are throwing sinkers as their primary fastball.

The fact that it took until the FO was changed before Folty finally abandoned his sinker and got his 4-seamer to play more in line with its velocity seems to back this.

There’s also the fact that no one that’s come up with the exception of Touki that seems to have developed a consistent platoon-beating secondary (changeup/splitter).

I don’t think it’s a lack of talent but there does seem to be evidence of some outdated pitcher development. I also, understand pitching development tends to be non-linear and often frustratingly slow, but if there is an issue it’s that we could be waiting years for our pitching to arrive while the bats are already here. If you’re going to build around pitching to the degree we decided to, you best be extremely confident in your ability to develop the raw talent in to capable major leaguers, I’d sure like to see more evidence of that.

This is more of a systemic/philosophical problem I have than a this season problem, I agree we’re going to find out about our pitchers this year.

There's been plenty of people saying that the FO changing is the only real reason Folty broke out.

WCDawg

Donm. Smoltz wasn't really injury prone, he had 10 seasons of 200 plus innings pitched. He had the elbow problem, but with the torque he generated he was pretty durable career wise. Avery is hard to figure. He seemed to throw effortlessly. He had a great build and pretty solid form. Sometimes it's just bad luck or some internal structural weakness. I have from all appearances very strong shoulders, and for most things they are. I've never been able to throw hard for long though because of impinged bursal sacs.

WCDawg

GeorgiaGirl, regardless of who is saying these things, it's still just speculation. It's the pitching coach who works with these young pitchers day in day out.

Kirbstomper

@GeorgiaGirl is right from what I’ve heard. In this day and age the front office has probably more impact on how a pitcher pitches anyway, with pitch usage and sequencing. Sinkers have kind of gone the way of the dinosaurs with the fly ball revolution, there’s more emphasis on “rising” fastballs and spin rate now. Eliminating his sinker and developing a nasty slider helped folty a lot.

Frankly, the Braves May have over estimated their ability to develop pitchers. They built a rebuild around pitchers and haven’t really developed anyone above average outside of folty (who was half astros half Braves, and drafted by the astros). It’s kind of maddening. Even if you credit the old pitching coach with folty, he also failed to develop anyone else and Tehran has turned into a fringe mlb pitcher.

Tldr: Hernandez probably didn’t do as much for folty as the new front office did to begin with. And even if he did, our pitching development hasn’t been good anyway so who cares that they fired him.

orlando

If I remember correctly Folty had a some games that he pitched well but had 0 to little run support.

GeorgiaGirl

https://forum.dawgnation.com/discussion/comment/228904#Comment_228904

Folty was legitimately good last year. The argument isn't that he was overrated, it was that Hernandez didn't do much for him to where he deserved praise for developing him at the major league level.

Which is true, I'm sorry if it's not believable but I don't see Folty breaking out like he did last year without the changes to his pitch mix.

WCDawg

Seriously GG, it's starting to seem like you have a personal dislike for Hernandez.

It's like firing a successful HC and arguing his assistants deserve the credit. Sports is a bottom line business. Why fire a successful coach ?

WCDawg

Orlando. Folty had all star numbers. He and Anibal Sanchez were our best starters by a lot last season. Not re-signing Sanchez might prove to be a big mistake.

GeorgiaGirl

Well, he wasn't fired because he was a success, he was fired because he s.ucks and was lucky and NOT good last year. There are PLENTY of people that wanted him fired after 2017, and he WAS going to get fired before 2018 happened if the Coppy scandal didn't happen. Wonder what the narrative is if the pink slip happens in 2017 because I don't think him being there or not changes much to the fortunes for 2018, HMMMMMMMMM?

WCDawg

GG, you're getting more ridiculous by the post. Success is success, the pitching staff was very, very good and the young guys were making progress. That is not s,ucking at your job.

GeorgiaGirl

Is it really success though if you're getting your hands held? Because that was what Hernandez was having happen. He had his hands held by the front office making adjustments for Folty that helped him break out, bringing in an ENTIRELY different shifting deal with analytics, and so on and so on. It was the right place at the right time for him and he was lucky and NOT good.

I'm 100% sure that Folty is a mediocre pitcher and the Braves DON'T make the playoffs last year if the FO doesn't change over.

WCDawg

YES GG, success is success. Would you fire Nick Saban because some speculate Kirby was responsible for the defense ?

The year before Hernandez was hired the staff was 24th in ERA. He was hired in 2017 and we started bringing up the kids, the staff was 24th again. Then last year in Hernandez's 2nd year, young pitchers made progress and the staff had the 7th lowest ERA in MLB. You don't fire coaches after that kind of improvement without more cause than the notion other people assisted him.

AnotherDawg

Alright you two, get a room.

coastaldawg

Shaky 1st inning for Kyle Wright, walked the bases loaded with 2 outs before getting strikeout to end inning with no runs. Listening to A-Rod and the ESPN crew is like listening to Beth Mowins or Gary Danielson call a Dawgs game. Had to get out my SportSync radio and tune in to the Braves radio broadcast.