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If someone has to be hospitalized due to COVID-19, and they die from a heart attack COVID-19 should be listed as the acute cause of death. Here is a link that gives some details on COVID-19 and heart disease
Pg was referencing people with mild symptoms not being hospitalized and dying from an unrelated event being included in death tolls to inflate numbers for some nefarious purpose. In no way should a baseless conspiracy theory be considered a good point.
This goes into the financials of treating covid patients. I can also give several links of hospitals struggling to stay afloat from lack of revenue. Can't make money without the elective procedures.
I appreciate your measured responses, and I agree with you, in general. Unfortunately politics and money always get in the way. There was a disincentive to list AIDS as the COD in the 80's. They listed it as "pneumonia" instead. Conversely, there's an incentive to list CV-19 as the COD today. Rather than cancer, heart disease, or other.
I had no idea some hospitals were underutilized. I feel bad for those with relatives getting less work/hours, but thank you for sharing.
One thing we haven't really thought about as a nation regarding our economy is how it will be changing a lot over the coming year. We have placed so much emphasis on efficiency that we have many sectors that are less adaptable. Farmers who put milk in single servings for schools have to dump their milk because they don't have the packaging to sell it to grocery stores. It's kind of like hospitals across America where some are overwhelmed with demand and others can't sell their services.
In general, there is going to a lot of change from how food is sold to how we travel and how sports operate. There will be some new winners and losers economically from all of this. Those companies that can adapt and take advantage of where demand is going will survive. Others that can't won't.
There has been much talk about the Covid deaths being overstated by it "being blamed" for death in those with underlying health conditions. The reality is that the vast majority of people have underlying conditions.
In 2000 I had a heart blockage that was cleared and had a stent inserted. The procedure plus medication has resulted in me living a normal and active life for 20 years. I had a heart cath as recently as 2018 which showed that the heart was perfectly healthy. At 70 years old I would likely die if I contracted the disease. In this instance I would most definitely die of cardiac arrest as a direct result of Covid-19. My underlying heart condition would play zero part in my death!
What is really unknown at this point is the long term consequences of those in their 20's, 30's and 40's+ that recover from the severe cases of the virus. I have seen a number of reports saying that CT chest scans can show that the individual has had Covid suggesting to me that it leaves behind scar tissue. What impact will this have on life expectancy in those that had it bad enough to require hospitalization. The true toll may not be known for decades.
Through yesterday
Deep state conspiracy? Good one. I am a long way from that. I’m more on the “mismanagement and incompetent governance” train. Particularly on the local and State levels.
Here you ate coming at me with insults, just as pocoyo came at me with snide remarks for bo reason. At least you aren’t crying about how I was rude to you. What he is doing here is about like spitting on someone and feigning offense when being told to FO in response. It’s pretty ridiculous. Both of you.
Yesterday only. IMO each state needs to test 150 per 100k daily before reopening.
As can be seen all states are below the 150 target for testing, some woefully!
They lost credibility in that article when they went in to how hospitals bill $70k plus but insurers only allow for $30k plus. The insurers are still paying at a rate above actual cost. The notion that “increased xrays and scans” are a financial drain is laughable, and illustrative of what is wrong with the cost curve in medicine. The actual cost of a single xray is close to zilch once the machine has already been acquired, but the hospitals view those as $200 a pop drains on revenue in their accounting games.
If the “paper loss” on average is $3000 per patient, then that is easily explained. The average Obamacare deductible is $4000. Dead people don’t pay, and most people don’t have that much spare change reserved to cover the deductible associated with their socialized medicine experiment, also known as The AFFORDABLE Care Act.
Wouldn’t you expect testing to drop at this point? We’ve been shutdown for nearly a month. In theory, there should be less people showing up with the symptoms to justify testing. Right or wrong? I think we need large scale antibodies testing to help reset the level of paranoia and fear. An more accurate understanding of the mortality is what will get society cranking again.
The local and state governments will also likely discourage increased testing now that doing so is directly tied to how much they are able to reopen their own economies.
Blaming local and state officials is, in the main, baseless. The Federal government has completely abdicated it's responsibility and appears to be more concerned with elevating prices for critical supplies than addressing the health and safety of front-line "troops" and the general public.
Mods are foxnews watching c0wards and only censor if you speak poorly of dear leader
feel free to call the pandemic a Democrat hoax or blame the entire situation on the media though.
@Bankwalker The time to attempt to control the virus is to test BEFORE it gets out of control. Take South Dakota, 777 have contracted the virus at one facility (directly and indirectly) before anyone was tested (or at least made public). If there was regular testing carried out this outbreak may have been prevented from becoming so severe. Given that at one Ohio prison where everyone was tested revealed that 39% of those testing positive had no symptoms and that apparently 48% of infections occur before the "infecter" displays symptoms, random testing is critical to avoiding Cases and Deaths exploding.
Very few Governors are intentionally restricting testing, indeed many are pleading the Federal government to utilize their (and only their) power to make companies focus on producing necessary testing components. It was promised that 29 million tests would be provided by March 31st but the total as of yesterday is 3.7 million! The only answer for this shortfall seems to be I do not want to do this anymore.
My wife is a RN in a Jacksonville area hospital and their employees are being furloughed due to being slow as well as other are hospitals. Some of her friends are going to agencies to get work. She is in the NICU and has had her hours cut as well.
Good points. I was referencing a study out of MIT that tracked responses to the 1918 pandemic. Cities that shut down sooner and stayed shut the longest had stronger recoveries. Tenses were confusing there. I’ll link below.
On B), while deaths are going to be disproportionally concentrated in those over 70, a lot of people in their 40s and 50s will die as well. Plus, and this is the kicker in my eyes, if we’re looking at 1-2 million deaths at a CFR of 1%, that’s between 20-40 million hospitalizations. From labor supply to consumer confidence, the magnitude of those numbers would devastate the economy even if we are “open”.
As things stand now, this isn’t sustainable in the long term. But until we have better data, testing, public health resources, my point is that there’a some doubt that opening the economy will actually help the economy.
Link to the press release on the historical analysis out of MIT: http://news.mit.edu/2020/pandemic-health-response-economic-recovery-0401
Hey, man. That's 3.5 million tests a week across our country... a week.
If we perform 500,000 tests A DAY as you suggest, I need to invest in some testing companies...
Dr. Birx said the number was 30, not 150.
Logistics are causing the testing issues...
Not politics.
Not apathy.
Not meanness.
Not Federalism/States' rights.
Logistics. You don't do something for the first time EVER at a scale in the millions across a huge country and not have major logistics problems.
That's not ANYBODY'S fault. It's logistics.
Sometimes bad things happen that ain't anybody's fault. Everyone is trying. Decisions are being made on the fly.
Anyone who says they would have done "this-this-and this" and they could have "controlled" a VIRUS that no one knows anything about is a narcissistic a-hole - regardless of political affiliation. We don't know "what would have happened if..."
Stop actively lying and misleading the American people about this crisis:
February 10: Trump says without evidence that the coronavirus "dies with the hotter weather"
February 24: Trump baselessly claims the situation is "under control"
Trump tweeted: "The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA."
February 25: A senior White House official falsely claims the virus has been "contained"
White House National Economic Council director Larry Kudlow said, "We have contained this, I won't say airtight but pretty close to airtight."
February 26: Trump wrongly says the coronavirus "is a flu"
Trump, contrasting the coronavirus with Ebola, said: "This is a flu. This is like a flu."
Facts First: While Trump may have simply meant that the coronavirus has a fatality rate more like the flu than like Ebola, experts have emphasized that the coronavirus is, simply, not the flu. They are different viruses with different characteristics, though they share symptoms, and the coronavirus has a higher mortality rate.
February 26: Trump baselessly predicts the number of US cases is "going very substantially down" to "close to zero"
February 28: Trump baselessly hints at an immigration link to the virus
Trump said: "The Democrat policy of open borders is a direct threat to the health and well-being of all Americans. Now you see it with the coronavirus, you see it. You see it with the coronavirus."
Facts First: Prominent Democrats do not support "open borders," literally unrestricted migration. Aside from that, though, there was no evidence from the coronavirus situation that Democrats' preferred immigration policies would be harmful to Americans' health. There was no known US case in which someone brought the virus to the US while immigrating or making an asylum claim.
March 1: Azar wrongly says 3,600 people have been tested
Azar said: "In terms of testing kits, we've already tested over 3,600 people for the virus."
Politico reported: "Two days later, CDC Principal Deputy Director Anne Schuchat told the Senate health committee that her agency had tested more than 3,000 specimens taken from roughly 500 people — a fraction of what Azar claimed."
March 2: Trump says a vaccine is coming "relatively soon"
March 4: Trump falsely claims Obama impeded testing
There is no Obama-era decision or rule that impeded coronavirus testing.
When asked what Obama administration decision Trump might be referring to, Peter Kyriacopolous, chief policy officer at the Association of Public Health Laboratories, said: "We aren't sure what rule is being referenced."
March 4: Trump wrongly says as many as 100,000 people died of the flu in 1990
A CDC analysis in 2010 estimated that there were 26,582 deaths from the seasonal flu in 1989-1990.
March 4: Trump says "the borders are automatically shut down"
March 5: Trump wrongly claims the virus only hit the US "three weeks ago"
Trump said, "We got hit with the virus really three weeks ago, if you think about it, I guess. That's when we first started really to see some possible effects."
The US had its first confirmed case of the coronavirus on January 21, more than six weeks before Trump spoke here.
March 6: Azar wrongly claims there is no test shortage
Azar said: "There is no testing kit shortage, nor has there ever been."
Vice President Mike Pence had said the day prior: "We don't have enough tests today to meet what we anticipate will be the demand going forward." Doctors, health authorities and elected officials in various locations around the country indeed said they did not have enough tests.
March 6: As the number of cases and deaths in Italy rises, Trump says the number is "getting much better"
Trump said: "...I hear the numbers are getting much better in Italy."
Facts First: The number of confirmed coronavirus cases and deaths in Italy was continuing to increase at the time Trump made this comment. As of Saturday, March 7, the day after Trump spoke here, Italy had 5,883 confirmed cases and 233 deaths; as of Monday, March 9, there were 9,172 cases and 463 deaths. (The Italian government announced a national lockdown on Monday.)
March 6: Trump falsely claims anybody can get tested if they want
Trump said: "Anybody that wants a test can get a test. That's what the bottom line is."
Should I continue CaneDawg or do you want to make more excuses for this travesty of a response?