The Braves traded 3 good prospects for a .205 hitter...

MacDawg15

@donm said:

@Teddy said:

@donm said:

@Teddy said:
I didn’t expect Duvall to be a starter. Just expected him to bat above .200. Didn’t know that was too much to ask from a major leaguer. But now I know, just because he gets out all the time he is way better than that. All those unproductive outs are actually good... PS: I believe in many of the advanced metrics/stats, like bunting, pitchouts, intentional walks are more harmful than good, etc. etc... also, I know Duvall has one more year on his deal, but Tucker who was traded away beats Duvall in all your important stats you listed.

Not in ML career stats, I don't think. Certainly not in power #'s. Somewhere it was stated earlier that he had averaged a lot of HR's in the past 2-3 years, excluding this year. Plus he's a well above average defensive OF guy. Just sayin'.

He's had two good years when it comes to HRs, and it was his first two full seasons. Not sure if he's like Francoeur, and the league just figured him out? I hope he figures it out and becomes an asset. But I'm merely talking about his current play, as that's what matters the most. I'm sure he's working hard on it, but still hoping to see actual results. Next year is a contract year, so I'm sure he'll be working his tail off. Speaking of contract years, I wonder what Markakis is going to ask for?

Boy, Markakis. That's a tough one. Career year but he is getting a bit long in the tooth. How many years will he want? 2? 3? 4? they've got Pache' getting closer to ML ready down on the farm. Maybe trade NM? Surely there would be some takers after the year he's having. Sounds crazy to trade a MVP candidate, but it's a business, right? Tough call.

He is and has been as consistent of a big leaguer for a LONG time. I'd give anything to be the one to decide but our words are moot. But til we get another consistent bat or 2 in the lineup I wouldn't let him go anywhere. I'm sure he'd sign a 3 yr deal. IF he did we could keep him for at least 1 of those yrs or until some more thump and consistency is added to his spot in the order and trade him in year 2 for a closer, or legit prospects.

WCDawg

@MacDawg15 said:

@WCDawg said:

@MacDawg15 said:

@Kirbstomper said:
We gave up essentially nothing for a right handed platoon bat, the sky isn't falling man.

This is what I tried getting across to ppl because none of the other 3 were in the future plans for the Braves. Sooner or later he'll drop a few bombs and even if one is enough to pull out a W where it otherwise would have been a loss; then the trade was worth it.

You seem to not understand net gain vs net loss.
If he is unproductive in 18 at bats, then hits a HR, he's still a HUGE net negative because you're losing all of the hits just a decent contact hitter would have given you from those 18 wasted at bats. You need to grasp the fact those few home runs will be anything but free.

Dude it does no good trying to get thru to you. You could be looking at the answer book for a test and argue with it. WHAT WERE THE 3 WE TRADED DOING TO PUT UP WINS FOR THE ATLANTA BRAVES? Not Gwinett.. I played pro ball and ran an academy for a decade and your telling me I don't know how this stuff works? Who was your 1st pro hit off of? What hs records do you still have 17 years later? IMO Ender has came around lately hitting lefty's almost as good as righties. So IF it was up to me Duvall would simply be a right handed bat off the bench! But I know baseball if I know anything, so bite me if you don't like my opinion! We all have different one's, but for some reason you think people value hearing your's more... This is a forum to put your opinions, not tell people what you think of their's! PPl aren't kidding when they msg ya and say that dude is clueless and will find something to argue about with everybody! When you get 4 of those about the same guy, that should say something. Us DAWG fans that enjoy getting on here to give different ways to look at something gets ruined because some ppl like you put on your war paint and login and think YOUR opinion is special and is ALWAYS correct!

As I've stated, this is at best a useless trade unless Duvall hits much better than his record suggests he will, and now his actual performance is proving.
It's worse than that when you consider his hitting is a NEGATIVE when compared to just the low average hitters. If you can't grasp this basic truth, I can't communicate with you.

WCDawg

@donm said:

@Teddy said:

@donm said:

@Teddy said:

@donm said:

@Teddy said:
I didn’t expect Duvall to be a starter. Just expected him to bat above .200. Didn’t know that was too much to ask from a major leaguer. But now I know, just because he gets out all the time he is way better than that. All those unproductive outs are actually good... PS: I believe in many of the advanced metrics/stats, like bunting, pitchouts, intentional walks are more harmful than good, etc. etc... also, I know Duvall has one more year on his deal, but Tucker who was traded away beats Duvall in all your important stats you listed.

Not in ML career stats, I don't think. Certainly not in power #'s. Somewhere it was stated earlier that he had averaged a lot of HR's in the past 2-3 years, excluding this year. Plus he's a well above average defensive OF guy. Just sayin'.

He's had two good years when it comes to HRs, and it was his first two full seasons. Not sure if he's like Francoeur, and the league just figured him out? I hope he figures it out and becomes an asset. But I'm merely talking about his current play, as that's what matters the most. I'm sure he's working hard on it, but still hoping to see actual results. Next year is a contract year, so I'm sure he'll be working his tail off. Speaking of contract years, I wonder what Markakis is going to ask for?

Boy, Markakis. That's a tough one. Career year but he is getting a bit long in the tooth. How many years will he want? 2? 3? 4? they've got Pache' getting closer to ML ready down on the farm. Maybe trade NM? Surely there would be some takers after the year he's having. Sounds crazy to trade a MVP candidate, but it's a business, right? Tough call.

You can’t trade Markakis. Trade deadline has passed.

off season trade.

See The Verlander trade to Houston at the end of last August. Bi-lateral trades are made to contenders after the deadline.

MacDawg15

@Kirbstomper said:

@WCDawg said:

@MacDawg15 said:

@Kirbstomper said:
We gave up essentially nothing for a right handed platoon bat, the sky isn't falling man.

This is what I tried getting across to ppl because none of the other 3 were in the future plans for the Braves. Sooner or later he'll drop a few bombs and even if one is enough to pull out a W where it otherwise would have been a loss; then the trade was worth it.

You seem to not understand net gain vs net loss.
If he is unproductive in 18 at bats, then hits a HR, he's still a HUGE net negative because you're losing all of the hits just a decent contact hitter would have given you from those 18 wasted at bats. You need to grasp the fact those few home runs will be anything but free.

Haha how many singles do you think a hr is worth? How many doubles? These things have actually been calculated and tabulated. Net gain vs net loss isn’t a mystery there are stats for it and I’ve even shown you what they are . Yeah 1-18 with a hr is not a good hitter if that’s what he averages haha.

You can disagree with my stance that he is a meh MLB player but you shouldn’t disagree with math

@WCDawg said:

@MacDawg15 said:

@WCDawg said:

@MacDawg15 said:

@Kirbstomper said:
We gave up essentially nothing for a right handed platoon bat, the sky isn't falling man.

This is what I tried getting across to ppl because none of the other 3 were in the future plans for the Braves. Sooner or later he'll drop a few bombs and even if one is enough to pull out a W where it otherwise would have been a loss; then the trade was worth it.

You seem to not understand net gain vs net loss.
If he is unproductive in 18 at bats, then hits a HR, he's still a HUGE net negative because you're losing all of the hits just a decent contact hitter would have given you from those 18 wasted at bats. You need to grasp the fact those few home runs will be anything but free.

Dude it does no good trying to get thru to you. You could be looking at the answer book for a test and argue with it. WHAT WERE THE 3 WE TRADED DOING TO PUT UP WINS FOR THE ATLANTA BRAVES? Not Gwinett.. I played pro ball and ran an academy for a decade and your telling me I don't know how this stuff works? Who was your 1st pro hit off of? What hs records do you still have 17 years later? IMO Ender has came around lately hitting lefty's almost as good as righties. So IF it was up to me Duvall would simply be a right handed bat off the bench! But I know baseball if I know anything, so bite me if you don't like my opinion! We all have different one's, but for some reason you think people value hearing your's more... This is a forum to put your opinions, not tell people what you think of their's! PPl aren't kidding when they msg ya and say that dude is clueless and will find something to argue about with everybody! When you get 4 of those about the same guy, that should say something. Us DAWG fans that enjoy getting on here to give different ways to look at something gets ruined because some ppl like you put on your war paint and login and think YOUR opinion is special and is ALWAYS correct!

As I've stated, this is at best a useless trade unless Duvall hits much better than his record suggests he will, and now his actual performance is proving.
It's worse than that when you consider his hitting is a NEGATIVE when compared to just the low average hitters. If you can't grasp this basic truth, I can't communicate with you.

Please don't try to! I try to never respond to your posts because dude you think your right about everything! But don't tell me I don't understand something I've played for a paycheck and taught for a decade to kids that come from 2 and 3 counties away for hitting lessons; to go along with giving private lessons to local college players!

Kirbstomper

@MacDawg15 said:

@Kirbstomper said:

@WCDawg said:

@MacDawg15 said:

@Kirbstomper said:
We gave up essentially nothing for a right handed platoon bat, the sky isn't falling man.

This is what I tried getting across to ppl because none of the other 3 were in the future plans for the Braves. Sooner or later he'll drop a few bombs and even if one is enough to pull out a W where it otherwise would have been a loss; then the trade was worth it.

You seem to not understand net gain vs net loss.
If he is unproductive in 18 at bats, then hits a HR, he's still a HUGE net negative because you're losing all of the hits just a decent contact hitter would have given you from those 18 wasted at bats. You need to grasp the fact those few home runs will be anything but free.

Haha how many singles do you think a hr is worth? How many doubles? These things have actually been calculated and tabulated. Net gain vs net loss isn’t a mystery there are stats for it and I’ve even shown you what they are . Yeah 1-18 with a hr is not a good hitter if that’s what he averages haha.

You can disagree with my stance that he is a meh MLB player but you shouldn’t disagree with math

@WCDawg said:

@MacDawg15 said:

@WCDawg said:

@MacDawg15 said:

@Kirbstomper said:
We gave up essentially nothing for a right handed platoon bat, the sky isn't falling man.

This is what I tried getting across to ppl because none of the other 3 were in the future plans for the Braves. Sooner or later he'll drop a few bombs and even if one is enough to pull out a W where it otherwise would have been a loss; then the trade was worth it.

You seem to not understand net gain vs net loss.
If he is unproductive in 18 at bats, then hits a HR, he's still a HUGE net negative because you're losing all of the hits just a decent contact hitter would have given you from those 18 wasted at bats. You need to grasp the fact those few home runs will be anything but free.

Dude it does no good trying to get thru to you. You could be looking at the answer book for a test and argue with it. WHAT WERE THE 3 WE TRADED DOING TO PUT UP WINS FOR THE ATLANTA BRAVES? Not Gwinett.. I played pro ball and ran an academy for a decade and your telling me I don't know how this stuff works? Who was your 1st pro hit off of? What hs records do you still have 17 years later? IMO Ender has came around lately hitting lefty's almost as good as righties. So IF it was up to me Duvall would simply be a right handed bat off the bench! But I know baseball if I know anything, so bite me if you don't like my opinion! We all have different one's, but for some reason you think people value hearing your's more... This is a forum to put your opinions, not tell people what you think of their's! PPl aren't kidding when they msg ya and say that dude is clueless and will find something to argue about with everybody! When you get 4 of those about the same guy, that should say something. Us DAWG fans that enjoy getting on here to give different ways to look at something gets ruined because some ppl like you put on your war paint and login and think YOUR opinion is special and is ALWAYS correct!

As I've stated, this is at best a useless trade unless Duvall hits much better than his record suggests he will, and now his actual performance is proving.
It's worse than that when you consider his hitting is a NEGATIVE when compared to just the low average hitters. If you can't grasp this basic truth, I can't communicate with you.

Please don't try to! I try to never respond to your posts because dude you think your right about everything! But don't tell me I don't understand something I've played for a paycheck and taught for a decade to kids that come from 2 and 3 counties away for hitting lessons; to go along with giving private lessons to local college players!

Haha the guy really is nuts or a troll. I'm starting to see why he has his reputation in the community.

And that's cool you played pro, you've gotta be crazy good to ever get paid to play the game.

ColaDawg86

Okay, I wanted to give Duvall a chance. My conclusion is this, does he have a clue what he's doing at the plate? He looks like he's up there just hacking.

Teddy

@ColaDawg86 said:
Okay, I wanted to give Duvall a chance. My conclusion is this, does he have a clue what he's doing at the plate? He looks like he's up there just hacking.

Don’t worry, the advanced metrics tell us he’s got an adjusted batting average of .350 and has elite level exit velocity and launch angle. Only problem is he whiffs it all the time. Once he figures that minor issue out, maybe he’ll be an all star again. He went to Vandy, maybe he’s blowing the admiral a little too much?

WCDawg

@MacDawg15 said:

@Kirbstomper said:

@WCDawg said:

@MacDawg15 said:

@Kirbstomper said:
We gave up essentially nothing for a right handed platoon bat, the sky isn't falling man.

This is what I tried getting across to ppl because none of the other 3 were in the future plans for the Braves. Sooner or later he'll drop a few bombs and even if one is enough to pull out a W where it otherwise would have been a loss; then the trade was worth it.

You seem to not understand net gain vs net loss.
If he is unproductive in 18 at bats, then hits a HR, he's still a HUGE net negative because you're losing all of the hits just a decent contact hitter would have given you from those 18 wasted at bats. You need to grasp the fact those few home runs will be anything but free.

Haha how many singles do you think a hr is worth? How many doubles? These things have actually been calculated and tabulated. Net gain vs net loss isn’t a mystery there are stats for it and I’ve even shown you what they are . Yeah 1-18 with a hr is not a good hitter if that’s what he averages haha.

You can disagree with my stance that he is a meh MLB player but you shouldn’t disagree with math

@WCDawg said:

@MacDawg15 said:

@WCDawg said:

@MacDawg15 said:

@Kirbstomper said:
We gave up essentially nothing for a right handed platoon bat, the sky isn't falling man.

This is what I tried getting across to ppl because none of the other 3 were in the future plans for the Braves. Sooner or later he'll drop a few bombs and even if one is enough to pull out a W where it otherwise would have been a loss; then the trade was worth it.

You seem to not understand net gain vs net loss.
If he is unproductive in 18 at bats, then hits a HR, he's still a HUGE net negative because you're losing all of the hits just a decent contact hitter would have given you from those 18 wasted at bats. You need to grasp the fact those few home runs will be anything but free.

Dude it does no good trying to get thru to you. You could be looking at the answer book for a test and argue with it. WHAT WERE THE 3 WE TRADED DOING TO PUT UP WINS FOR THE ATLANTA BRAVES? Not Gwinett.. I played pro ball and ran an academy for a decade and your telling me I don't know how this stuff works? Who was your 1st pro hit off of? What hs records do you still have 17 years later? IMO Ender has came around lately hitting lefty's almost as good as righties. So IF it was up to me Duvall would simply be a right handed bat off the bench! But I know baseball if I know anything, so bite me if you don't like my opinion! We all have different one's, but for some reason you think people value hearing your's more... This is a forum to put your opinions, not tell people what you think of their's! PPl aren't kidding when they msg ya and say that dude is clueless and will find something to argue about with everybody! When you get 4 of those about the same guy, that should say something. Us DAWG fans that enjoy getting on here to give different ways to look at something gets ruined because some ppl like you put on your war paint and login and think YOUR opinion is special and is ALWAYS correct!

As I've stated, this is at best a useless trade unless Duvall hits much better than his record suggests he will, and now his actual performance is proving.
It's worse than that when you consider his hitting is a NEGATIVE when compared to just the low average hitters. If you can't grasp this basic truth, I can't communicate with you.

Please don't try to! I try to never respond to your posts because dude you think your right about everything! But don't tell me I don't understand something I've played for a paycheck and taught for a decade to kids that come from 2 and 3 counties away for hitting lessons; to go along with giving private lessons to local college players!

My BS meter is going bonkers.
You clearly don't have a clue about statistical values.

WCDawg

@Teddy said:

@ColaDawg86 said:
Okay, I wanted to give Duvall a chance. My conclusion is this, does he have a clue what he's doing at the plate? He looks like he's up there just hacking.

Don’t worry, the advanced metrics tell us he’s got an adjusted batting average of .350 and has elite level exit velocity and launch angle. Only problem is he whiffs it all the time. Once he figures that minor issue out, maybe he’ll be an all star again. He went to Vandy, maybe he’s blowing the admiral a little too much?

I.love those magic metrics where adjusted average is .055 higher than OBP.
Now he just needs to adjust his suck0meter down a tad.

WCDawg

@Kirbstomper said:

@MacDawg15 said:

@Kirbstomper said:

@WCDawg said:

@MacDawg15 said:

@Kirbstomper said:
We gave up essentially nothing for a right handed platoon bat, the sky isn't falling man.

This is what I tried getting across to ppl because none of the other 3 were in the future plans for the Braves. Sooner or later he'll drop a few bombs and even if one is enough to pull out a W where it otherwise would have been a loss; then the trade was worth it.

You seem to not understand net gain vs net loss.
If he is unproductive in 18 at bats, then hits a HR, he's still a HUGE net negative because you're losing all of the hits just a decent contact hitter would have given you from those 18 wasted at bats. You need to grasp the fact those few home runs will be anything but free.

Haha how many singles do you think a hr is worth? How many doubles? These things have actually been calculated and tabulated. Net gain vs net loss isn’t a mystery there are stats for it and I’ve even shown you what they are . Yeah 1-18 with a hr is not a good hitter if that’s what he averages haha.

You can disagree with my stance that he is a meh MLB player but you shouldn’t disagree with math

@WCDawg said:

@MacDawg15 said:

@WCDawg said:

@MacDawg15 said:

@Kirbstomper said:
We gave up essentially nothing for a right handed platoon bat, the sky isn't falling man.

This is what I tried getting across to ppl because none of the other 3 were in the future plans for the Braves. Sooner or later he'll drop a few bombs and even if one is enough to pull out a W where it otherwise would have been a loss; then the trade was worth it.

You seem to not understand net gain vs net loss.
If he is unproductive in 18 at bats, then hits a HR, he's still a HUGE net negative because you're losing all of the hits just a decent contact hitter would have given you from those 18 wasted at bats. You need to grasp the fact those few home runs will be anything but free.

Dude it does no good trying to get thru to you. You could be looking at the answer book for a test and argue with it. WHAT WERE THE 3 WE TRADED DOING TO PUT UP WINS FOR THE ATLANTA BRAVES? Not Gwinett.. I played pro ball and ran an academy for a decade and your telling me I don't know how this stuff works? Who was your 1st pro hit off of? What hs records do you still have 17 years later? IMO Ender has came around lately hitting lefty's almost as good as righties. So IF it was up to me Duvall would simply be a right handed bat off the bench! But I know baseball if I know anything, so bite me if you don't like my opinion! We all have different one's, but for some reason you think people value hearing your's more... This is a forum to put your opinions, not tell people what you think of their's! PPl aren't kidding when they msg ya and say that dude is clueless and will find something to argue about with everybody! When you get 4 of those about the same guy, that should say something. Us DAWG fans that enjoy getting on here to give different ways to look at something gets ruined because some ppl like you put on your war paint and login and think YOUR opinion is special and is ALWAYS correct!

As I've stated, this is at best a useless trade unless Duvall hits much better than his record suggests he will, and now his actual performance is proving.
It's worse than that when you consider his hitting is a NEGATIVE when compared to just the low average hitters. If you can't grasp this basic truth, I can't communicate with you.

Please don't try to! I try to never respond to your posts because dude you think your right about everything! But don't tell me I don't understand something I've played for a paycheck and taught for a decade to kids that come from 2 and 3 counties away for hitting lessons; to go along with giving private lessons to local college players!

Haha the guy really is nuts or a troll. I'm starting to see why he has his reputation in the community.

And that's cool you played pro, you've gotta be crazy good to ever get paid to play the game.

You're what, 12 years old ?

WCDawg

@MacDawg15 said:

@WCDawg said:

@MacDawg15 said:

@Kirbstomper said:
We gave up essentially nothing for a right handed platoon bat, the sky isn't falling man.

This is what I tried getting across to ppl because none of the other 3 were in the future plans for the Braves. Sooner or later he'll drop a few bombs and even if one is enough to pull out a W where it otherwise would have been a loss; then the trade was worth it.

You seem to not understand net gain vs net loss.
If he is unproductive in 18 at bats, then hits a HR, he's still a HUGE net negative because you're losing all of the hits just a decent contact hitter would have given you from those 18 wasted at bats. You need to grasp the fact those few home runs will be anything but free.

Dude it does no good trying to get thru to you. You could be looking at the answer book for a test and argue with it. WHAT WERE THE 3 WE TRADED DOING TO PUT UP WINS FOR THE ATLANTA BRAVES? Not Gwinett.. I played pro ball and ran an academy for a decade and your telling me I don't know how this stuff works? Who was your 1st pro hit off of? What hs records do you still have 17 years later? IMO Ender has came around lately hitting lefty's almost as good as righties. So IF it was up to me Duvall would simply be a right handed bat off the bench! But I know baseball if I know anything, so bite me if you don't like my opinion! We all have different one's, but for some reason you think people value hearing your's more... This is a forum to put your opinions, not tell people what you think of their's! PPl aren't kidding when they msg ya and say that dude is clueless and will find something to argue about with everybody! When you get 4 of those about the same guy, that should say something. Us DAWG fans that enjoy getting on here to give different ways to look at something gets ruined because some ppl like you put on your war paint and login and think YOUR opinion is special and is ALWAYS correct!

Blow harder, maybe you'll make sense then.