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Very Interesting Article And A Great Chance To Argue

2

Comments

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @texdawg said:

    @donm said:
    Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

    https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

    Thanks for posting article. Unfortunately I wasn't able to open it because I need to subscribe to the AJC.

    I have a 6'5" fourteen year old who is a very good pitcher. There is so much conflicting information out there about the best way to develop young pitchers that it's difficult to know what is right.

    How often they should throw, how long should they be shut down or should they even be shut down, and when they should start throwing breaking balls and how often.

    We have decided to be very conservative with my son and we shut him down for long periods of time and limit how many breaking pitches he throws - and he didn't learn the breaking pitch until he was 13. Don't know if that is the right way or not. But I'm confident that over using a 14 year old boy to help win major or AAA tournaments isn't in their best interest.

    I don't know the right answer but I do know there are a whole lot more arm injuries now than there used to be.

    Just a few years ago the notion that having Tommy John surgery was actually good for a pitcher had gained popularity.
    Now research makes it clear having 1 surgery doubles the chances you'll need a second surgery. I'm with those who limit a young person's innings and use of the most damaging pitches. Tommy John surgery has been around a long time, yet there still isn't a single pitcher who had it in The HOF.

    Wrong, but you will probably still argue otherwise.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2015/07/08/john-smoltz-hall-of-fame-tommy-john-surgery/29874857/

    Me argue, you're clearly being your usual dic self. I'm guessing whoever wrote the article I read meant players who had TJ early in their careers, or perhaps it was about starting pitchers.

    Or written prior to 2015. Smoltz is the one and only, so the point you were making is still valid - and we now a documented case where you were 100% wrong about something

    On this day in history....

    I'm so sick of your shiit, let's do each other mutual favors and stop conversing.

    Blood in the water, folks.

    There I go again.

  • texdawgtexdawg Posts: 11,574 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited January 2019

    Right now he is definitely a DE. He probably has the skill set to play TE but has been playing OT.

    Hopefully he develops into a TE. They are typically not as athletic as other positions - need great hands, size and fast enough. That fits him perfectly.

    He loves DE and hopefully has the athleticism to play it in high school - not to mention college. But he needs some physical maturation (he's only 14) to determine if he is able to play DE. He is VERY physical and that is a plus.

    I don't see the body type to be a D1 o-line recruit. He is about 220lbs but I don't see his body holding 280 plus pounds as a junior or senior in high school. Also, at that weight, it probably eliminates him from pitching.

    But he is not done growing so 6'6" - 6'8" could also change what position or sport he ultimately decides on.

  • texdawgtexdawg Posts: 11,574 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @Acrum21 said:

    @texdawg said:

    @Acrum21 said:

    @texdawg said:

    @Acrum21 said:

    @texdawg said:

    @Acrum21 said:

    @texdawg said:

    @donm said:
    Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

    https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

    Thanks for posting article. Unfortunately I wasn't able to open it because I need to subscribe to the AJC.

    I have a 6'5" fourteen year old who is a very good pitcher. There is so much conflicting information out there about the best way to develop young pitchers that it's difficult to know what is right.

    How often they should throw, how long should they be shut down or should they even be shut down, and when they should start throwing breaking balls and how often.

    We have decided to be very conservative with my son and we shut him down for long periods of time and limit how many breaking pitches he throws - and he didn't learn the breaking pitch until he was 13. Don't know if that is the right way or not. But I'm confident that over using a 14 year old boy to help win major or AAA tournaments isn't in their best interest.

    I don't know the right answer but I do know there are a whole lot more arm injuries now than there used to be.

    Coming from someone who partially tore their UCL I can assure you you're doing the right thing! And I would tell you to be more afraid of lack of rest than throwing breaking pitches. I have pinpointed my injury to overexposure from about a 6 week stretch during my 17yo summer. Not sure if your son plays in other sports but I would also advise you to not let him specialize, play everything!

    Great advice. He also plays football and basketball and will probably play all three through high school.

    Sounds like a stud!

    He's good at all - probably not great yet at any. If I can somehow convince him that he is not a stud he'll have a better chance of eventually making it in one of the sports.

    He is the best athlete at that size that I have ever coached. But I have coached countless kids that work harder and that could be his downfall.

    I have actually given up coaching football as of a couple weeks ago because he would have been in my position group next season and he needs to hear a different voice.

    Wow that a tough situation. I would just expose him to the highest levels of competition. Take him to those camps and let him find out there are other great athletes out there and a lot of them work very, very hard. Sounds like he needs some adversity but that's just form my limited POV obviously

    Yep. He's actually invited and probably attending the OU, TCU, A&M and Texas Tech camps this summer. There are other camps he may attend but want to avoid camps that don't identify the age of the player.

    He'll be fine. Just needs to get to high school where there are other big kids that can push him around.

    And I'll be honest, I'm probably especially hard on him. If you ask other coaches and parents they'll probably say he works as hard as anyone else.

    I thought I saw you say somewhere else he's currently an OT or TE?

  • Acrum21Acrum21 Posts: 2,439 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @texdawg said:
    Right now he is definitely a DE. He probably has the skill set to play TE but has been playing OT.

    Hopefully he develops into a TE. They are typically not as athletic as other positions - need great hands, size and fast enough. That fits him perfectly.

    He loves DE and hopefully has the athleticism to play it in high school - not to mention college. But he needs some physical maturation (he's only 14) to determine if he is able to play DE. He is VERY physical and that is a plus.

    I don't see the body type to be a D1 o-line recruit. He is about 220lbs but I don't see his body holding 280 plus pounds as a junior or senior in high school. Also, at that weight, it probably eliminates him from pitching.

    But he is not done growing so 6'6" - 6'8" could also change what position or sport he ultimately decides on.

    Lefty or righty?

  • texdawgtexdawg Posts: 11,574 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @texdawg said:

    @donm said:
    Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

    https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

    Thanks for posting article. Unfortunately I wasn't able to open it because I need to subscribe to the AJC.

    I have a 6'5" fourteen year old who is a very good pitcher. There is so much conflicting information out there about the best way to develop young pitchers that it's difficult to know what is right.

    How often they should throw, how long should they be shut down or should they even be shut down, and when they should start throwing breaking balls and how often.

    We have decided to be very conservative with my son and we shut him down for long periods of time and limit how many breaking pitches he throws - and he didn't learn the breaking pitch until he was 13. Don't know if that is the right way or not. But I'm confident that over using a 14 year old boy to help win major or AAA tournaments isn't in their best interest.

    I don't know the right answer but I do know there are a whole lot more arm injuries now than there used to be.

    Just a few years ago the notion that having Tommy John surgery was actually good for a pitcher had gained popularity.
    Now research makes it clear having 1 surgery doubles the chances you'll need a second surgery. I'm with those who limit a young person's innings and use of the most damaging pitches. Tommy John surgery has been around a long time, yet there still isn't a single pitcher who had it in The HOF.

    Wrong, but you will probably still argue otherwise.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2015/07/08/john-smoltz-hall-of-fame-tommy-john-surgery/29874857/

    Me argue, you're clearly being your usual dic self. I'm guessing whoever wrote the article I read meant players who had TJ early in their careers, or perhaps it was about starting pitchers.

    Or written prior to 2015. Smoltz is the one and only, so the point you were making is still valid - and we now a documented case where you were 100% wrong about something

    On this day in history....

    I'm so sick of your shiit, let's do each other mutual favors and stop conversing.

    Blood in the water, folks.

    There I go again.

    @WCDawg why can't we all just enjoy this forum without all the animosity.

    People disagree with many of your posts because they are typically negative or posted out of anger. But you also occasionally make good points - but it's difficult to answer back to those because of the anger you always seem to have.

    Is there anyway we could all just agree to disagree on many topics without calling people names.

    Can't understand why we can't all just enjoy being dawg fans and learn a lot from everyones different experiences without always disagreeing or questioning someone's knowledge.

    This is my one attempt to try and cool down the rhetoric and move forward more positively. I can get all the negativity from work, TV, politics, etc. Would like to avoid it with my sports and especially my Dawgs.

  • texdawgtexdawg Posts: 11,574 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @Acrum21 said:

    @texdawg said:
    Right now he is definitely a DE. He probably has the skill set to play TE but has been playing OT.

    Hopefully he develops into a TE. They are typically not as athletic as other positions - need great hands, size and fast enough. That fits him perfectly.

    He loves DE and hopefully has the athleticism to play it in high school - not to mention college. But he needs some physical maturation (he's only 14) to determine if he is able to play DE. He is VERY physical and that is a plus.

    I don't see the body type to be a D1 o-line recruit. He is about 220lbs but I don't see his body holding 280 plus pounds as a junior or senior in high school. Also, at that weight, it probably eliminates him from pitching.

    But he is not done growing so 6'6" - 6'8" could also change what position or sport he ultimately decides on.

    Lefty or righty?

    Righty. My daughter is a lefty but my son is not.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @texdawg said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @texdawg said:

    @donm said:
    Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

    https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

    Thanks for posting article. Unfortunately I wasn't able to open it because I need to subscribe to the AJC.

    I have a 6'5" fourteen year old who is a very good pitcher. There is so much conflicting information out there about the best way to develop young pitchers that it's difficult to know what is right.

    How often they should throw, how long should they be shut down or should they even be shut down, and when they should start throwing breaking balls and how often.

    We have decided to be very conservative with my son and we shut him down for long periods of time and limit how many breaking pitches he throws - and he didn't learn the breaking pitch until he was 13. Don't know if that is the right way or not. But I'm confident that over using a 14 year old boy to help win major or AAA tournaments isn't in their best interest.

    I don't know the right answer but I do know there are a whole lot more arm injuries now than there used to be.

    Just a few years ago the notion that having Tommy John surgery was actually good for a pitcher had gained popularity.
    Now research makes it clear having 1 surgery doubles the chances you'll need a second surgery. I'm with those who limit a young person's innings and use of the most damaging pitches. Tommy John surgery has been around a long time, yet there still isn't a single pitcher who had it in The HOF.

    Wrong, but you will probably still argue otherwise.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2015/07/08/john-smoltz-hall-of-fame-tommy-john-surgery/29874857/

    Me argue, you're clearly being your usual dic self. I'm guessing whoever wrote the article I read meant players who had TJ early in their careers, or perhaps it was about starting pitchers.

    Or written prior to 2015. Smoltz is the one and only, so the point you were making is still valid - and we now a documented case where you were 100% wrong about something

    On this day in history....

    I'm so sick of your shiit, let's do each other mutual favors and stop conversing.

    Blood in the water, folks.

    There I go again.

    @WCDawg why can't we all just enjoy this forum without all the animosity.

    People disagree with many of your posts because they are typically negative or posted out of anger. But you also occasionally make good points - but it's difficult to answer back to those because of the anger you always seem to have.

    Is there anyway we could all just agree to disagree on many topics without calling people names.

    Can't understand why we can't all just enjoy being dawg fans and learn a lot from everyones different experiences without always disagreeing or questioning someone's knowledge.

    This is my one attempt to try and cool down the rhetoric and move forward more positively. I can get all the negativity from work, TV, politics, etc. Would like to avoid it with my sports and especially my Dawgs.

    There I go, yet again.
    Get my point ?

  • BankwalkerBankwalker Posts: 5,348 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @WCDawg said:

    @texdawg said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @texdawg said:

    @donm said:
    Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

    https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

    Thanks for posting article. Unfortunately I wasn't able to open it because I need to subscribe to the AJC.

    I have a 6'5" fourteen year old who is a very good pitcher. There is so much conflicting information out there about the best way to develop young pitchers that it's difficult to know what is right.

    How often they should throw, how long should they be shut down or should they even be shut down, and when they should start throwing breaking balls and how often.

    We have decided to be very conservative with my son and we shut him down for long periods of time and limit how many breaking pitches he throws - and he didn't learn the breaking pitch until he was 13. Don't know if that is the right way or not. But I'm confident that over using a 14 year old boy to help win major or AAA tournaments isn't in their best interest.

    I don't know the right answer but I do know there are a whole lot more arm injuries now than there used to be.

    Just a few years ago the notion that having Tommy John surgery was actually good for a pitcher had gained popularity.
    Now research makes it clear having 1 surgery doubles the chances you'll need a second surgery. I'm with those who limit a young person's innings and use of the most damaging pitches. Tommy John surgery has been around a long time, yet there still isn't a single pitcher who had it in The HOF.

    Wrong, but you will probably still argue otherwise.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2015/07/08/john-smoltz-hall-of-fame-tommy-john-surgery/29874857/

    Me argue, you're clearly being your usual dic self. I'm guessing whoever wrote the article I read meant players who had TJ early in their careers, or perhaps it was about starting pitchers.

    Or written prior to 2015. Smoltz is the one and only, so the point you were making is still valid - and we now a documented case where you were 100% wrong about something

    On this day in history....

    I'm so sick of your shiit, let's do each other mutual favors and stop conversing.

    Blood in the water, folks.

    There I go again.

    @WCDawg why can't we all just enjoy this forum without all the animosity.

    People disagree with many of your posts because they are typically negative or posted out of anger. But you also occasionally make good points - but it's difficult to answer back to those because of the anger you always seem to have.

    Is there anyway we could all just agree to disagree on many topics without calling people names.

    Can't understand why we can't all just enjoy being dawg fans and learn a lot from everyones different experiences without always disagreeing or questioning someone's knowledge.

    This is my one attempt to try and cool down the rhetoric and move forward more positively. I can get all the negativity from work, TV, politics, etc. Would like to avoid it with my sports and especially my Dawgs.

    There I go, yet again.
    Get my point ?

    LOL. You have thinner skin than the President of the United States of America.

    He’s just asking to cool things down and he knows you are the more mature adult to ask between the two of us.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @texdawg said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @texdawg said:

    @donm said:
    Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

    https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

    Thanks for posting article. Unfortunately I wasn't able to open it because I need to subscribe to the AJC.

    I have a 6'5" fourteen year old who is a very good pitcher. There is so much conflicting information out there about the best way to develop young pitchers that it's difficult to know what is right.

    How often they should throw, how long should they be shut down or should they even be shut down, and when they should start throwing breaking balls and how often.

    We have decided to be very conservative with my son and we shut him down for long periods of time and limit how many breaking pitches he throws - and he didn't learn the breaking pitch until he was 13. Don't know if that is the right way or not. But I'm confident that over using a 14 year old boy to help win major or AAA tournaments isn't in their best interest.

    I don't know the right answer but I do know there are a whole lot more arm injuries now than there used to be.

    Just a few years ago the notion that having Tommy John surgery was actually good for a pitcher had gained popularity.
    Now research makes it clear having 1 surgery doubles the chances you'll need a second surgery. I'm with those who limit a young person's innings and use of the most damaging pitches. Tommy John surgery has been around a long time, yet there still isn't a single pitcher who had it in The HOF.

    Wrong, but you will probably still argue otherwise.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2015/07/08/john-smoltz-hall-of-fame-tommy-john-surgery/29874857/

    Me argue, you're clearly being your usual dic self. I'm guessing whoever wrote the article I read meant players who had TJ early in their careers, or perhaps it was about starting pitchers.

    Or written prior to 2015. Smoltz is the one and only, so the point you were making is still valid - and we now a documented case where you were 100% wrong about something

    On this day in history....

    I'm so sick of your shiit, let's do each other mutual favors and stop conversing.

    Blood in the water, folks.

    There I go again.

    @WCDawg why can't we all just enjoy this forum without all the animosity.

    People disagree with many of your posts because they are typically negative or posted out of anger. But you also occasionally make good points - but it's difficult to answer back to those because of the anger you always seem to have.

    Is there anyway we could all just agree to disagree on many topics without calling people names.

    Can't understand why we can't all just enjoy being dawg fans and learn a lot from everyones different experiences without always disagreeing or questioning someone's knowledge.

    This is my one attempt to try and cool down the rhetoric and move forward more positively. I can get all the negativity from work, TV, politics, etc. Would like to avoid it with my sports and especially my Dawgs.

    There I go, yet again.
    Get my point ?

    LOL. You have thinner skin than the President of the United States of America.

    He’s just asking to cool things down and he knows you are the more mature adult to ask between the two of us.

    I just KEEP being a complete ass hole.

  • BankwalkerBankwalker Posts: 5,348 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited January 2019

    Interesting tidbits about tall baseball players. There are only 22 active major leaguers who are 6’5”/250, and only 4 of those are position players. Aaron Judge is already in the top 3 in HRs in history for players in the category. Adam Dunn has the most. When Judge started a game in CF he became the tallest player to ever start a game in CF at 6’8” 285lbs.

    http://www.afootinthebox.com/peter/aaron-judge-is-enormous-and-so-are-these-baseball-players

    Amazing that the 2017 AL MVP is only 5’6” Jose Altuve. The opposite end of the spectrum.

    Dave Winfield is the only HOF position player 6’6” or taller.

  • texdawgtexdawg Posts: 11,574 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @WCDawg said:

    @texdawg said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @texdawg said:

    @donm said:
    Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

    https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

    Thanks for posting article. Unfortunately I wasn't able to open it because I need to subscribe to the AJC.

    I have a 6'5" fourteen year old who is a very good pitcher. There is so much conflicting information out there about the best way to develop young pitchers that it's difficult to know what is right.

    How often they should throw, how long should they be shut down or should they even be shut down, and when they should start throwing breaking balls and how often.

    We have decided to be very conservative with my son and we shut him down for long periods of time and limit how many breaking pitches he throws - and he didn't learn the breaking pitch until he was 13. Don't know if that is the right way or not. But I'm confident that over using a 14 year old boy to help win major or AAA tournaments isn't in their best interest.

    I don't know the right answer but I do know there are a whole lot more arm injuries now than there used to be.

    Just a few years ago the notion that having Tommy John surgery was actually good for a pitcher had gained popularity.
    Now research makes it clear having 1 surgery doubles the chances you'll need a second surgery. I'm with those who limit a young person's innings and use of the most damaging pitches. Tommy John surgery has been around a long time, yet there still isn't a single pitcher who had it in The HOF.

    Wrong, but you will probably still argue otherwise.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2015/07/08/john-smoltz-hall-of-fame-tommy-john-surgery/29874857/

    Me argue, you're clearly being your usual dic self. I'm guessing whoever wrote the article I read meant players who had TJ early in their careers, or perhaps it was about starting pitchers.

    Or written prior to 2015. Smoltz is the one and only, so the point you were making is still valid - and we now a documented case where you were 100% wrong about something

    On this day in history....

    I'm so sick of your shiit, let's do each other mutual favors and stop conversing.

    Blood in the water, folks.

    There I go again.

    @WCDawg why can't we all just enjoy this forum without all the animosity.

    People disagree with many of your posts because they are typically negative or posted out of anger. But you also occasionally make good points - but it's difficult to answer back to those because of the anger you always seem to have.

    Is there anyway we could all just agree to disagree on many topics without calling people names.

    Can't understand why we can't all just enjoy being dawg fans and learn a lot from everyones different experiences without always disagreeing or questioning someone's knowledge.

    This is my one attempt to try and cool down the rhetoric and move forward more positively. I can get all the negativity from work, TV, politics, etc. Would like to avoid it with my sports and especially my Dawgs.

    There I go, yet again.
    Get my point ?

    I'm just simply asking if we can enjoy posting on here without all the other crap. Nothing I said was derogatory toward you. But yet you DV me.

    I've disagreed with you but I've never called you anything. You've called me a liar and I left it alone. I just don't get it.

    Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me that you enjoy posting on the forum. Some of your posts aren't received as well as others. Big deal - people have different opinions - doesn't mean they are wrong or deserve being called names.

    I was just trying to get a reset or start over so everyone could enjoy posting on here - including you. But you obviously wanted none of that.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited January 2019

    @texdawg said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @texdawg said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @texdawg said:

    @donm said:
    Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

    https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

    Thanks for posting article. Unfortunately I wasn't able to open it because I need to subscribe to the AJC.

    I have a 6'5" fourteen year old who is a very good pitcher. There is so much conflicting information out there about the best way to develop young pitchers that it's difficult to know what is right.

    How often they should throw, how long should they be shut down or should they even be shut down, and when they should start throwing breaking balls and how often.

    We have decided to be very conservative with my son and we shut him down for long periods of time and limit how many breaking pitches he throws - and he didn't learn the breaking pitch until he was 13. Don't know if that is the right way or not. But I'm confident that over using a 14 year old boy to help win major or AAA tournaments isn't in their best interest.

    I don't know the right answer but I do know there are a whole lot more arm injuries now than there used to be.

    Just a few years ago the notion that having Tommy John surgery was actually good for a pitcher had gained popularity.
    Now research makes it clear having 1 surgery doubles the chances you'll need a second surgery. I'm with those who limit a young person's innings and use of the most damaging pitches. Tommy John surgery has been around a long time, yet there still isn't a single pitcher who had it in The HOF.

    Wrong, but you will probably still argue otherwise.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2015/07/08/john-smoltz-hall-of-fame-tommy-john-surgery/29874857/

    Me argue, you're clearly being your usual dic self. I'm guessing whoever wrote the article I read meant players who had TJ early in their careers, or perhaps it was about starting pitchers.

    Or written prior to 2015. Smoltz is the one and only, so the point you were making is still valid - and we now a documented case where you were 100% wrong about something

    On this day in history....

    I'm so sick of your shiit, let's do each other mutual favors and stop conversing.

    Blood in the water, folks.

    There I go again.

    @WCDawg why can't we all just enjoy this forum without all the animosity.

    People disagree with many of your posts because they are typically negative or posted out of anger. But you also occasionally make good points - but it's difficult to answer back to those because of the anger you always seem to have.

    Is there anyway we could all just agree to disagree on many topics without calling people names.

    Can't understand why we can't all just enjoy being dawg fans and learn a lot from everyones different experiences without always disagreeing or questioning someone's knowledge.

    This is my one attempt to try and cool down the rhetoric and move forward more positively. I can get all the negativity from work, TV, politics, etc. Would like to avoid it with my sports and especially my Dawgs.

    There I go, yet again.
    Get my point ?

    I'm just simply asking if we can enjoy posting on here without all the other crap. Nothing I said was derogatory toward you. But yet you DV me.

    I've disagreed with you but I've never called you anything. You've called me a liar and I left it alone. I just don't get it.

    Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me that you enjoy posting on the forum. Some of your posts aren't received as well as others. Big deal - people have different opinions - doesn't mean they are wrong or deserve being called names.

    I was just trying to get a reset or start over so everyone could enjoy posting on here - including you. But you obviously wanted none of that.

    I just can't stop, I seem determined to pick a fight in this thread.

  • BankwalkerBankwalker Posts: 5,348 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @texdawg said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @texdawg said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @texdawg said:

    @donm said:
    Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

    https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

    Thanks for posting article. Unfortunately I wasn't able to open it because I need to subscribe to the AJC.

    I have a 6'5" fourteen year old who is a very good pitcher. There is so much conflicting information out there about the best way to develop young pitchers that it's difficult to know what is right.

    How often they should throw, how long should they be shut down or should they even be shut down, and when they should start throwing breaking balls and how often.

    We have decided to be very conservative with my son and we shut him down for long periods of time and limit how many breaking pitches he throws - and he didn't learn the breaking pitch until he was 13. Don't know if that is the right way or not. But I'm confident that over using a 14 year old boy to help win major or AAA tournaments isn't in their best interest.

    I don't know the right answer but I do know there are a whole lot more arm injuries now than there used to be.

    Just a few years ago the notion that having Tommy John surgery was actually good for a pitcher had gained popularity.
    Now research makes it clear having 1 surgery doubles the chances you'll need a second surgery. I'm with those who limit a young person's innings and use of the most damaging pitches. Tommy John surgery has been around a long time, yet there still isn't a single pitcher who had it in The HOF.

    Wrong, but you will probably still argue otherwise.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2015/07/08/john-smoltz-hall-of-fame-tommy-john-surgery/29874857/

    Me argue, you're clearly being your usual dic self. I'm guessing whoever wrote the article I read meant players who had TJ early in their careers, or perhaps it was about starting pitchers.

    Or written prior to 2015. Smoltz is the one and only, so the point you were making is still valid - and we now a documented case where you were 100% wrong about something

    On this day in history....

    I'm so sick of your shiit, let's do each other mutual favors and stop conversing.

    Blood in the water, folks.

    There I go again.

    @WCDawg why can't we all just enjoy this forum without all the animosity.

    People disagree with many of your posts because they are typically negative or posted out of anger. But you also occasionally make good points - but it's difficult to answer back to those because of the anger you always seem to have.

    Is there anyway we could all just agree to disagree on many topics without calling people names.

    Can't understand why we can't all just enjoy being dawg fans and learn a lot from everyones different experiences without always disagreeing or questioning someone's knowledge.

    This is my one attempt to try and cool down the rhetoric and move forward more positively. I can get all the negativity from work, TV, politics, etc. Would like to avoid it with my sports and especially my Dawgs.

    There I go, yet again.
    Get my point ?

    I'm just simply asking if we can enjoy posting on here without all the other crap. Nothing I said was derogatory toward you. But yet you DV me.

    I've disagreed with you but I've never called you anything. You've called me a liar and I left it alone. I just don't get it.

    Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me that you enjoy posting on the forum. Some of your posts aren't received as well as others. Big deal - people have different opinions - doesn't mean they are wrong or deserve being called names.

    I was just trying to get a reset or start over so everyone could enjoy posting on here - including you. But you obviously wanted none of that.

    I would be remiss not to point out that the stated point of this thread was to argue. Perhaps @donm needs to be called to the carpet. :wink:

  • texdawgtexdawg Posts: 11,574 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @WCDawg said:

    @texdawg said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @texdawg said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @texdawg said:

    @donm said:
    Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

    https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

    Thanks for posting article. Unfortunately I wasn't able to open it because I need to subscribe to the AJC.

    I have a 6'5" fourteen year old who is a very good pitcher. There is so much conflicting information out there about the best way to develop young pitchers that it's difficult to know what is right.

    How often they should throw, how long should they be shut down or should they even be shut down, and when they should start throwing breaking balls and how often.

    We have decided to be very conservative with my son and we shut him down for long periods of time and limit how many breaking pitches he throws - and he didn't learn the breaking pitch until he was 13. Don't know if that is the right way or not. But I'm confident that over using a 14 year old boy to help win major or AAA tournaments isn't in their best interest.

    I don't know the right answer but I do know there are a whole lot more arm injuries now than there used to be.

    Just a few years ago the notion that having Tommy John surgery was actually good for a pitcher had gained popularity.
    Now research makes it clear having 1 surgery doubles the chances you'll need a second surgery. I'm with those who limit a young person's innings and use of the most damaging pitches. Tommy John surgery has been around a long time, yet there still isn't a single pitcher who had it in The HOF.

    Wrong, but you will probably still argue otherwise.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2015/07/08/john-smoltz-hall-of-fame-tommy-john-surgery/29874857/

    Me argue, you're clearly being your usual dic self. I'm guessing whoever wrote the article I read meant players who had TJ early in their careers, or perhaps it was about starting pitchers.

    Or written prior to 2015. Smoltz is the one and only, so the point you were making is still valid - and we now a documented case where you were 100% wrong about something

    On this day in history....

    I'm so sick of your shiit, let's do each other mutual favors and stop conversing.

    Blood in the water, folks.

    There I go again.

    @WCDawg why can't we all just enjoy this forum without all the animosity.

    People disagree with many of your posts because they are typically negative or posted out of anger. But you also occasionally make good points - but it's difficult to answer back to those because of the anger you always seem to have.

    Is there anyway we could all just agree to disagree on many topics without calling people names.

    Can't understand why we can't all just enjoy being dawg fans and learn a lot from everyones different experiences without always disagreeing or questioning someone's knowledge.

    This is my one attempt to try and cool down the rhetoric and move forward more positively. I can get all the negativity from work, TV, politics, etc. Would like to avoid it with my sports and especially my Dawgs.

    There I go, yet again.
    Get my point ?

    I'm just simply asking if we can enjoy posting on here without all the other crap. Nothing I said was derogatory toward you. But yet you DV me.

    I've disagreed with you but I've never called you anything. You've called me a liar and I left it alone. I just don't get it.

    Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me that you enjoy posting on the forum. Some of your posts aren't received as well as others. Big deal - people have different opinions - doesn't mean they are wrong or deserve being called names.

    I was just trying to get a reset or start over so everyone could enjoy posting on here - including you. But you obviously wanted none of that.

    I just can't stop, I seem determined to pick a fight.

    Well to each his own. I choose to enjoy the forum. Guess I'll just have to avoid your fights

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @texdawg said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @texdawg said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @texdawg said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Bankwalker said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @texdawg said:

    @donm said:
    Just read this article in the AJC and found it fascinating. It deals with pitching in baseball and what advanced analytics has wrought with the way pitchers are used. Some very interesting stats, especially with Greg Maddux. I thought it might give us something other than politics to argue about - at least for a short while. Some cool Maddux quotes and Leo Mazzone quotes, too.

    https://epaper.ajc.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&edid=99bc7be3-1e19-4455-84b4-d24c09f2c2a3

    Thanks for posting article. Unfortunately I wasn't able to open it because I need to subscribe to the AJC.

    I have a 6'5" fourteen year old who is a very good pitcher. There is so much conflicting information out there about the best way to develop young pitchers that it's difficult to know what is right.

    How often they should throw, how long should they be shut down or should they even be shut down, and when they should start throwing breaking balls and how often.

    We have decided to be very conservative with my son and we shut him down for long periods of time and limit how many breaking pitches he throws - and he didn't learn the breaking pitch until he was 13. Don't know if that is the right way or not. But I'm confident that over using a 14 year old boy to help win major or AAA tournaments isn't in their best interest.

    I don't know the right answer but I do know there are a whole lot more arm injuries now than there used to be.

    Just a few years ago the notion that having Tommy John surgery was actually good for a pitcher had gained popularity.
    Now research makes it clear having 1 surgery doubles the chances you'll need a second surgery. I'm with those who limit a young person's innings and use of the most damaging pitches. Tommy John surgery has been around a long time, yet there still isn't a single pitcher who had it in The HOF.

    Wrong, but you will probably still argue otherwise.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2015/07/08/john-smoltz-hall-of-fame-tommy-john-surgery/29874857/

    Me argue, you're clearly being your usual dic self. I'm guessing whoever wrote the article I read meant players who had TJ early in their careers, or perhaps it was about starting pitchers.

    Or written prior to 2015. Smoltz is the one and only, so the point you were making is still valid - and we now a documented case where you were 100% wrong about something

    On this day in history....

    I'm so sick of your shiit, let's do each other mutual favors and stop conversing.

    Blood in the water, folks.

    There I go again.

    @WCDawg why can't we all just enjoy this forum without all the animosity.

    People disagree with many of your posts because they are typically negative or posted out of anger. But you also occasionally make good points - but it's difficult to answer back to those because of the anger you always seem to have.

    Is there anyway we could all just agree to disagree on many topics without calling people names.

    Can't understand why we can't all just enjoy being dawg fans and learn a lot from everyones different experiences without always disagreeing or questioning someone's knowledge.

    This is my one attempt to try and cool down the rhetoric and move forward more positively. I can get all the negativity from work, TV, politics, etc. Would like to avoid it with my sports and especially my Dawgs.

    There I go, yet again.
    Get my point ?

    I'm just simply asking if we can enjoy posting on here without all the other crap. Nothing I said was derogatory toward you. But yet you DV me.

    I've disagreed with you but I've never called you anything. You've called me a liar and I left it alone. I just don't get it.

    Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me that you enjoy posting on the forum. Some of your posts aren't received as well as others. Big deal - people have different opinions - doesn't mean they are wrong or deserve being called names.

    I was just trying to get a reset or start over so everyone could enjoy posting on here - including you. But you obviously wanted none of that.

    I just can't stop, I seem determined to pick a fight.

    Well to each his own. I choose to enjoy the forum. Guess I'll just have to avoid your fights

    There I go..yet again.

  • texdawgtexdawg Posts: 11,574 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    I sincerely tried. You are obviously dealing with things in your life that are affecting your point of view and attitude towards others. I don't know what they are but I will pray that things start getting better for you.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @texdawg said:
    I sincerely tried. You are obviously dealing with things in your life that are affecting your point of view and attitude towards others. I don't know what they are but I will pray that things start getting better for you.

    I just can't stop can I ?

  • AnotherDawgAnotherDawg Posts: 6,761 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Good thread Don. I am an AJC subscriber but could not find the article via the link. Still, I understand the topic, and I appreciate the posts from @Acrum21 and @texdawg. I'm a former baseball prospect, pitcher, and UCL survivor, as well as a former baseball dad, and now, a travel baseball coach.

    In my experience, Smoltz is dead on with his commentary, and I tend to agree with Mazzone as well, though he can take things to an extreme. I could write a book with my own thoughts on this subject, but keeping it short for this thread...

    1. Recovery time is THE #1 issue. A teenager can safely throw 100 pitches in a game, as long as he doesn't throw again for 3-4 days. That's how the pros do it. Conversely, the way youth tournaments are run these days, a kid might throw three innings in the morning, three innings in the afternoon, and two innings the next day. He may not hit 100 pitches total, but it's absolutely terrible for his arm.
    2. Curveballs are almost a non-issue.
    3. Playing other sports is essential. The program I help run encourages kids to play football and basketball, or whatever (wrestling, track, doesn't matter) during other seasons, and take a break from baseball.
    4. Long toss is critical. Many programs neglect this, and many parents/kids don't even know what it is.
    5. Proper arm care is important. This includes stretching, use of arm bands, icing after pitching, and running (sprints and distance, same day and/or next day, after pitching).

    Lastly, communication is important. It can also be tricky. Some kids complain of arm pain at the drop of a hat, and they may need to learn how to pitch through soreness and build arm strength. But in my experience, the best pitchers are usually the opposite. They won't admit arm soreness, and they'll often pitch with it, without anyone knowing. Over time, the soreness turns to pain, and their arm is subjected to undue stress. Next thing you know they're popping Advil, pitching through pain, and putting on a brave face, right up to the point that their ligament pops.

    So, whether you're a coach or a dad, check in with the kid, and see how he's doing. When he says "fine," ask again. And keep an eye on him, especially when he doesn't know you're watching. Most important, no matter what level your kid is playing, ENJOY the moment. Making the pros is a one in a million shot. Don't view your kid as a prospect. You won't know when you're watching his final season, or his final game, until it's over.

  • texdawgtexdawg Posts: 11,574 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @AnotherDawg said:
    Good thread Don. I am an AJC subscriber but could not find the article via the link. Still, I understand the topic, and I appreciate the posts from @Acrum21 and @texdawg. I'm a former baseball prospect, pitcher, and UCL survivor, as well as a former baseball dad, and now, a travel baseball coach.

    In my experience, Smoltz is dead on with his commentary, and I tend to agree with Mazzone as well, though he can take things to an extreme. I could write a book with my own thoughts on this subject, but keeping it short for this thread...

    1. Recovery time is THE #1 issue. A teenager can safely throw 100 pitches in a game, as long as he doesn't throw again for 3-4 days. That's how the pros do it. Conversely, the way youth tournaments are run these days, a kid might throw three innings in the morning, three innings in the afternoon, and two innings the next day. He may not hit 100 pitches total, but it's absolutely terrible for his arm.
    2. Curveballs are almost a non-issue.
    3. Playing other sports is essential. The program I help run encourages kids to play football and basketball, or whatever (wrestling, track, doesn't matter) during other seasons, and take a break from baseball.
    4. Long toss is critical. Many programs neglect this, and many parents/kids don't even know what it is.
    5. Proper arm care is important. This includes stretching, use of arm bands, icing after pitching, and running (sprints and distance, same day and/or next day, after pitching).

    Lastly, communication is important. It can also be tricky. Some kids complain of arm pain at the drop of a hat, and they may need to learn how to pitch through soreness and build arm strength. But in my experience, the best pitchers are usually the opposite. They won't admit arm soreness, and they'll often pitch with it, without anyone knowing. Over time, the soreness turns to pain, and their arm is subjected to undue stress. Next thing you know they're popping Advil, pitching through pain, and putting on a brave face, right up to the point that their ligament pops.

    So, whether you're a coach or a dad, check in with the kid, and see how he's doing. When he says "fine," ask again. And keep an eye on him, especially when he doesn't know you're watching. Most important, no matter what level your kid is playing, ENJOY the moment. Making the pros is a one in a million shot. Don't view your kid as a prospect. You won't know when you're watching his final season, or his final game, until it's over.

    Thank you for a great post. You obviously know what you are talking about. Your advice is very consistent with what I believe to be correct - especially long toss and proper care.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited January 2019

    @AnotherDawg said:
    Good thread Don. I am an AJC subscriber but could not find the article via the link. Still, I understand the topic, and I appreciate the posts from @Acrum21 and @texdawg. I'm a former baseball prospect, pitcher, and UCL survivor, as well as a former baseball dad, and now, a travel baseball coach.

    In my experience, Smoltz is dead on with his commentary, and I tend to agree with Mazzone as well, though he can take things to an extreme. I could write a book with my own thoughts on this subject, but keeping it short for this thread...

    1. Recovery time is THE #1 issue. A teenager can safely throw 100 pitches in a game, as long as he doesn't throw again for 3-4 days. That's how the pros do it. Conversely, the way youth tournaments are run these days, a kid might throw three innings in the morning, three innings in the afternoon, and two innings the next day. He may not hit 100 pitches total, but it's absolutely terrible for his arm.
    2. Curveballs are almost a non-issue.
    3. Playing other sports is essential. The program I help run encourages kids to play football and basketball, or whatever (wrestling, track, doesn't matter) during other seasons, and take a break from baseball.
    4. Long toss is critical. Many programs neglect this, and many parents/kids don't even know what it is.
    5. Proper arm care is important. This includes stretching, use of arm bands, icing after pitching, and running (sprints and distance, same day and/or next day, after pitching).

    Lastly, communication is important. It can also be tricky. Some kids complain of arm pain at the drop of a hat, and they may need to learn how to pitch through soreness and build arm strength. But in my experience, the best pitchers are usually the opposite. They won't admit arm soreness, and they'll often pitch with it, without anyone knowing. Over time, the soreness turns to pain, and their arm is subjected to undue stress. Next thing you know they're popping Advil, pitching through pain, and putting on a brave face, right up to the point that their ligament pops.

    So, whether you're a coach or a dad, check in with the kid, and see how he's doing. When he says "fine," ask again. And keep an eye on him, especially when he doesn't know you're watching. Most important, no matter what level your kid is playing, ENJOY the moment. Making the pros is a one in a million shot. Don't view your kid as a prospect. You won't know when you're watching his final season, or his final game, until it's over.

    Leo Mazzone had his pitchers throw every day with The Braves. It went against popular beliefs but it's hard to argue with results. Glavine was 41 years old before he ever spent a day on the injured reserve list and Maddux spent 15 days on it in his 23 year career only because 15 days is the minimum he could spend on it the one and only time he used it.

    Leo believed in packing the arm and shoulder with ice as soon as a starter came out of a game and have them in hot therapy by the next day and throwing later in the day after having pitched the day or night before. Keep in mind these guys also played a ton of golf during the season.

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