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COVID-19 Check-in 2.0
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Don't worry I'm not. The evidence from all the RCTs that HCQ doesn't work is overwhelming. I only posted that so I wouldn't have to make the same argument for the tenth time in this thread.
Edit: that guy is also a doctor who writes about science in his free time. I wouldn't call that "fringe" in the sense you are implying. Fringe better describes places like breitbart and OANN where you get news.
And all of the RCTs say it doesn't. One guy getting better isn't evidence.
The last 2 days shows a disturbing trend which hopefully is just a temporary blip.
These are the 10 states I thought needed the most attention a while back. The Tests/100k highlighted in light red are those where the testing rate is below the average of all states. Florida, Texas, Georgia, Alabama and Arizona all have low testing and high cases per new people tested. This should not happen as it understates cases (many more missed) and will lead to a higher CFR due to missed/delayed identification of cases and a false estimate of hospital needs in 2 weeks time.
Your example goes against the narrative. "HCQ doesn't work."
I think they call that TDS.
Why does this convince you but not RCTs?
Overwhelming evidence???
2 deaths out of 1234 is more overwhelming than the year we beat the snot out of Tech 51-7, and their fans emptied Sanford at halftime.
That article you linked used surprisingly unprofessional language. I almost asked if you had written it. I read all of it, and all of the linked studies. The guy was fixated on lack of method and controls, refusing to even acknowledge the astonishingly low rate of death. Instead, he chose to attack the lack of academic credentials for the doctors on the front lines, such as Zelenko. That is your typical out of touch academic wannabe elitist. The guy wouldn’t even acknowledge a closer look might be warranted. TWO DEAD OUT OF 1234, mostly high risk, including a nursing home!
Meanwhile, the study you linked showing it doesn’t work looked at a group of 100 or so that involved only 16 people who had actually tested positive. The rest were presumptive positive. Talk about sketchy methods and controls.
yeah methods and controls are incredibly important for determining if results are valid. Can you give me the name of the study you are referring to with only 100 people? The guy committed fraud. That is usually enough to destroy credibility. Everyone said HCQ warranted a closer look at the beginning including myself. The closer look as been had and it doesn't work. Once again observational studies do not prove a treatment does or does not work. We have RCTs that show it does not work.
This fascination w/ HCQ is easily the strangest part of the whole pandemic. If it works, it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't.
Do we really think there's a pharma conspiracy to keep HCQ from being discovered as a cheap treatment, while dexamethasone and other extremely cheap steroids are used all the time?
You linked the study and asked opinions a few days back.. It was probably more than 100. Definitely only had 16 positives.
I doubt it
Yes, it is perplexing. There was some evidence that warranted further investigation at the beginning. Once more rigorous data came out that showed it didn't work in multiple settings, we should have moved on like we do with almost every drug that fails phase 3 trials. However, a fanatical following has prevented us from doing so. It is incredibly frustrating.
@Bankwalker I know I cited the large RCTs mentioned here showing that HCQ doesn't work. I think you are talking about the small observational studies you and others are posting.
Wonder if there are any stats showing which regions of the country have prescribed HCQ the most or the least?
One region of the country has had a significantly higher death rate than other regions......significantly higher.....
There are still a number of doctors down here in the uneducated south that still believe in HCQ and claim to be having success with it. I have a number of physician buddies that still believe in it.
But they are probably at a disadvantage because their waiting room TVs are usually tuned to Fox, OANN or the cartoon network.
Maybe they should turn it to CNN or MSNBC. Stations that have been against HCQ since the beginning.....
Maybe ignorance is bliss.
If I ever get really sick from Covid..... I hope my doctor has the intelligence and courage to try anything that they believe will work.....even if Chris Cuomo swears against it.
Haha! Do you even read the stuff you link,@YaleDawg ? As you can see, in the below comment by YOU from July 23, to which I have linked, you clearly state,”I'm more interested in what you think of the RCT that contradicts Dr. Risch.”
(Quote) He wasn't just referring to you. I'm more interested in what you think of the RCT that contradicts Dr. Risch. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638
in COVID-19 Check-in 2.0 Comment by YaleDawg July 23
Now before you read the study which you linked PROVING DR RISCH IS A CHARLATAN, please recall I said it had 100 people and only 16 positives by test.
You just said “I doubt it.” (See above)
Clearly you didn’t read the study that you claimed contradicts Dr Risch. So here, allow me to quote it for you.
“Of 113 persons in whom symptomatic illness developed, 16 had PCR-confirmed disease, 74 had illness that was compatible with probable Covid-19 per the U.S. case definition, 13 had possible Covid-19 with compatible symptoms and epidemiologic linkage...”
The study actually looked at 821 people, and treated 414 with HCQ, of which only 49 developed symptoms, and only 11 of those who received HCQ actually tested positive.
How many millions of people have tested for Covid 19 because they “exhibited symptoms?” Well this study had 49 of those who actually developed symptomatic illness on the HCQ side, and only ELEVEN actually tested positive by PCR exam. The rest were presumptively positive. That’s just over 20%, which is a positive rate similar to Florida, according to @Denmen185’s numbers.
Who is the fraud? Your study, the one YOU said proves Dr Risch is wrong on HCQ, only treated 11 prople who had tested positive with HCQ. That’s a helluva sample size. Gold standard in medicine, right?
@PerroGrande @texdawg @Casanova_Flatulence @RxDawg @JoelSidneyKelly @flemingislanddawg @Bum @BoroDawg @pgjackson
How many large trials are needed to show it doesn't work? No one is saying the South is uneducated.
We enrolled 821 asymptomatic participants. Overall, 87.6% of the participants (719 of 821) reported a high-risk exposure to a confirmed Covid-19 contact. The incidence of new illness compatible with Covid-19 did not differ significantly between participants receiving hydroxychloroquine (49 of 414 [11.8%]) and those receiving placebo (58 of 407 [14.3%]); the absolute difference was −2.4 percentage points (95% confidence interval, −7.0 to 2.2; P=0.35). Side effects were more common with hydroxychloroquine than with placebo (40.1% vs. 16.8%), but no serious adverse reactions were reported.
These are the results. It is sad that you have to resort to lying and distorting data just to try and win an argument. Not all of them were tested because they were at high risk of exposure because they lived with people who had already tested positive. If you live with someone who tested positive and develop COVID-19 symptoms, you probably have covid.
Edit: this is also one of many RCTs that show HCQ is not an effective treatment for COVID-19. I understand your political views are influencing how you look at things but this is just sad. It's time to move on and stop believing in a grand global conspiracy.
Did you seriously just imply that Texas is part of the south? You've been there long enough to know that Texas is not "part" of anything. It's TEXAS. 😬
Just wondering what you guys/gals think about this video, there's gotta be an reason Facebook and Youtube keep deleting it....
My mother in law's doctor definitely believes in HCQ
And my buddies that are physicians seem to believe in it. They must not have access to your large trials and are just going off their real world experiences.
A "certain" part of the population has been against HCQ since the start of this virus. Way before any of these large trials could take place.
I'm no scientist....heck.....I'm really not very smart. But I do know scientists can run trials to try and discover a truth......or try to prove a "truth". I learned that from my 10th grade science teacher.
And.....I understand the importance of having lab scientists.....I really do. But in a situation like this......with a virus like this......I tend to want to rely on those doctors that have the stresses of trying to keep their patients alive....over those that lock up the lab at 5pm.
And I mean no disrespect to those talented and very vitale research doctors.
Totally agree and I stand corrected