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Atlanta Braves

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Comments

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @TNDawg71 said:
    The pitching staff has to develop during the off season. Better command without a doubt. One move in the lineup would help obviously.

    Both staff ERA and hitting were top 10 in MLB, so the record was no fluke.
    Pitching is probably going to be easier to repeat than hitting given the young arms we have.

  • donmdonm Posts: 10,241 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @TNDawg71 said:
    The pitching staff has to develop during the off season. Better command without a doubt. One move in the lineup would help obviously.

    Anyone know the difference between control and command? Is there a difference?

  • georgiaboygeorgiaboy Posts: 846 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @donm said:

    @TNDawg71 said:
    The pitching staff has to develop during the off season. Better command without a doubt. One move in the lineup would help obviously.

    Anyone know the difference between control and command? Is there a difference?

    @donm said:

    @TNDawg71 said:
    The pitching staff has to develop during the off season. Better command without a doubt. One move in the lineup would help obviously.

    Anyone know the difference between control and command? Is there a difference?

    I don’t but I do know that they have to stop walking 9 per game!

  • KirbstomperKirbstomper Posts: 1,102 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @georgiaboy said:

    @donm said:

    @TNDawg71 said:
    The pitching staff has to develop during the off season. Better command without a doubt. One move in the lineup would help obviously.

    Anyone know the difference between control and command? Is there a difference?

    @donm said:

    @TNDawg71 said:
    The pitching staff has to develop during the off season. Better command without a doubt. One move in the lineup would help obviously.

    Anyone know the difference between control and command? Is there a difference?

    I don’t but I do know that they have to stop walking 9 per game!

    Control is the ability to throw strikes, command is the ability to hit spots.

  • BoroDawgBoroDawg Posts: 1,667 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @georgiaboy said:
    Sign the Marlins catcher (JT Realmuto), resign Markakis and shore up the bull pen and watch us go!

    Considering Realmuto isn’t a free agent, don’t think we’ll be signing him... We could trade for him, but it would take multiple top 100 prospects to get him and trading with division rivals rarely happens.

  • donmdonm Posts: 10,241 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @Kirbstomper said:

    @georgiaboy said:

    @donm said:

    @TNDawg71 said:
    The pitching staff has to develop during the off season. Better command without a doubt. One move in the lineup would help obviously.

    Anyone know the difference between control and command? Is there a difference?

    @donm said:

    @TNDawg71 said:
    The pitching staff has to develop during the off season. Better command without a doubt. One move in the lineup would help obviously.

    Anyone know the difference between control and command? Is there a difference?

    I don’t but I do know that they have to stop walking 9 per game!

    Control is the ability to throw strikes, command is the ability to hit spots.

    So, if I read you correctly, a pitcher might not want to throw a strike - say with an 0-2 or 1-2 count and would rather have the pitch go, say, 3-4 inches outside. Command means he can that outside spot, off the plate?

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @donm said:

    @TNDawg71 said:
    The pitching staff has to develop during the off season. Better command without a doubt. One move in the lineup would help obviously.

    Anyone know the difference between control and command? Is there a difference?

    Broadly speaking, maybe no difference.
    In baseball talk control usually is used to rate how well a pitcher can throw strikes.
    Command is what Maddux was supreme with. Putting the ball where you want it, when you want to and understanding why you want it there at that particular time.

  • AnotherDawgAnotherDawg Posts: 6,762 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @Kirbstomper 's short answer was right on. A pitcher with good control is one who rarely issues walks, can throw a strike pretty much whenever he needs to. Command speaks to the ability to hit spots (side to side, up and down, on or off the plate) as well as effectiveness with different pitches. Some guys can command their fastball but not their offspeed pitches. Good MLB pitchers can command two or three pitches. Maddux was unique in his ability to change speeds and movement in so many ways, with total command. It was like having 9-10 different pitches.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited October 2018

    @donm said:

    @Kirbstomper said:

    @georgiaboy said:

    @donm said:

    @TNDawg71 said:
    The pitching staff has to develop during the off season. Better command without a doubt. One move in the lineup would help obviously.

    Anyone know the difference between control and command? Is there a difference?

    @donm said:

    @TNDawg71 said:
    The pitching staff has to develop during the off season. Better command without a doubt. One move in the lineup would help obviously.

    Anyone know the difference between control and command? Is there a difference?

    I don’t but I do know that they have to stop walking 9 per game!

    Control is the ability to throw strikes, command is the ability to hit spots.

    So, if I read you correctly, a pitcher might not want to throw a strike - say with an 0-2 or 1-2 count and would rather have the pitch go, say, 3-4 inches outside. Command means he can that outside spot, off the plate?

    THAT is my point about Maddux's ''command'', he not only could put the ball on a dime with movement and varied speeds, he knew exactly why he was doing it, what he was setting up the hitter for and how it related to his entire game plan. That is command in the commander sense.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @BoroDawg said:

    @georgiaboy said:
    Sign the Marlins catcher (JT Realmuto), resign Markakis and shore up the bull pen and watch us go!

    Considering Realmuto isn’t a free agent, don’t think we’ll be signing him... We could trade for him, but it would take multiple top 100 prospects to get him and trading with division rivals rarely happens.

    I count 9 pitchers still in our minor league system with trade value.
    Management could make 4 or 5 untouchable, then give The Marlins their pick any one of the rest, and negotiate another player or 2 to add to the package.

  • donmdonm Posts: 10,241 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @WCDawg said:

    @donm said:

    @Kirbstomper said:

    @georgiaboy said:

    @donm said:

    @TNDawg71 said:
    The pitching staff has to develop during the off season. Better command without a doubt. One move in the lineup would help obviously.

    Anyone know the difference between control and command? Is there a difference?

    @donm said:

    @TNDawg71 said:
    The pitching staff has to develop during the off season. Better command without a doubt. One move in the lineup would help obviously.

    Anyone know the difference between control and command? Is there a difference?

    I don’t but I do know that they have to stop walking 9 per game!

    Control is the ability to throw strikes, command is the ability to hit spots.

    So, if I read you correctly, a pitcher might not want to throw a strike - say with an 0-2 or 1-2 count and would rather have the pitch go, say, 3-4 inches outside. Command means he can that outside spot, off the plate?

    THAT is my point about Maddux's ''command'', he not only could put the ball on a dime with movement and varied speeds, he knew exactly why he was doing it, what he was setting up the hitter for and how it related to his entire game plan. That is command in the commander sense.

    I recall it being said of Maddox that he would tell a player before the pitch (like Lemke) that the batter was going to hit it to him. He knew where the pitch was going and how that particular batter would hit it.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @donm said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @donm said:

    @Kirbstomper said:

    @georgiaboy said:

    @donm said:

    @TNDawg71 said:
    The pitching staff has to develop during the off season. Better command without a doubt. One move in the lineup would help obviously.

    Anyone know the difference between control and command? Is there a difference?

    @donm said:

    @TNDawg71 said:
    The pitching staff has to develop during the off season. Better command without a doubt. One move in the lineup would help obviously.

    Anyone know the difference between control and command? Is there a difference?

    I don’t but I do know that they have to stop walking 9 per game!

    Control is the ability to throw strikes, command is the ability to hit spots.

    So, if I read you correctly, a pitcher might not want to throw a strike - say with an 0-2 or 1-2 count and would rather have the pitch go, say, 3-4 inches outside. Command means he can that outside spot, off the plate?

    THAT is my point about Maddux's ''command'', he not only could put the ball on a dime with movement and varied speeds, he knew exactly why he was doing it, what he was setting up the hitter for and how it related to his entire game plan. That is command in the commander sense.

    I recall it being said of Maddox that he would tell a player before the pitch (like Lemke) that the batter was going to hit it to him. He knew where the pitch was going and how that particular batter would hit it.

    He's the only pitcher I've seen who seemed to be able to dictate where a batter would hit the ball at a high rate.
    It was amazing to watch a fielder move, then have the ball hit right to his new position. Of course Greg was probably the best fielding pitcher ever, talk about covering all the bases.

  • KirbstomperKirbstomper Posts: 1,102 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited October 2018

    @WCDawg said:

    @BoroDawg said:

    @georgiaboy said:
    Sign the Marlins catcher (JT Realmuto), resign Markakis and shore up the bull pen and watch us go!

    Considering Realmuto isn’t a free agent, don’t think we’ll be signing him... We could trade for him, but it would take multiple top 100 prospects to get him and trading with division rivals rarely happens.

    I count 9 pitchers still in our minor league system with trade value.
    Management could make 4 or 5 untouchable, then give The Marlins their pick any one of the rest, and negotiate another player or 2 to add to the package.

    So I’m pretty studied up on this stuff and also am in favor of trading for Realmuto, so here’s my take on the trade. It’s going to take more than one of our non untouchable pitchers and “someone else”, where I’m assuming you mean one of our 15-30 ranked prospects.

    Realmuto hs 2 arbitration years left and was worth 4.8 WAR this year. He is a Freddie freeman caliber player with 2 years where he will probably get paid like 30-35 million total if I remember my arbitration salary stuff correctly. This puts what the industry calls his surplus value (value as a player minus contract) at like 45 Million, conservatively.

    Here is a bit of a dated look at our prospect valuations https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/top-32-prospects-atlanta-braves-2/

    And here is a link to the value of prospects in surplus value https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/valuing-the-2017-top-100-prospects/

    That means the marlins would ask for 2 of our 55 grade pitching prospects, which is basically only soroka and Wright for sure. Maybe tuoki and Ian Anderson have a case for this grade as well, but so far I haven’t seen a 55 slapped on them yet. It would take 3 of our 50 grade pitchers which is the Wilson, fried, Wentz, Gohara plus the debateable Anderson and tuokki. Allard isn’t a 50 anymore, more likely a 40-45. We could also give one of our 55s and 2 50s. But all of these packages still come up a bit short, so we would then need to throw in another “someone else”. We could also try building a package around someone like Pache or Drew Waters, who will probably get some 55 grades after this season. Though I’d prefer to keep these guys if possible.

    Also, if the Marlins are shopping JT half the league is going to be interested, so it’ll take an overpay. If someone offers a 60 grade bat then we probably won’t match the offer. In short, The trade for him would hurt, but our organizational strength is upper level pitching specs so I’m in favor of making a move.

  • WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @Kirbstomper said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @BoroDawg said:

    @georgiaboy said:
    Sign the Marlins catcher (JT Realmuto), resign Markakis and shore up the bull pen and watch us go!

    Considering Realmuto isn’t a free agent, don’t think we’ll be signing him... We could trade for him, but it would take multiple top 100 prospects to get him and trading with division rivals rarely happens.

    I count 9 pitchers still in our minor league system with trade value.
    Management could make 4 or 5 untouchable, then give The Marlins their pick any one of the rest, and negotiate another player or 2 to add to the package.

    So I’m pretty studied up on this stuff and also am in favor of trading for Realmuto, so here’s my take on the trade. It’s going to take more than one of our non untouchable pitchers and “someone else”, where I’m assuming you mean one of our 15-30 ranked prospects.

    Realmuto hs 2 arbitration years left and was worth 4.8 WAR this year. He is a Freddie freeman caliber player with 2 years where he will probably get paid like 30-35 million total if I remember my arbitration salary stuff correctly. This puts what the industry calls his surplus value (value as a player minus contract) at like 45 Million, conservatively.

    Here is a bit of a dated look at our prospect valuations https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/top-32-prospects-atlanta-braves-2/

    And here is a link to the value of prospects in surplus value https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/valuing-the-2017-top-100-prospects/

    That means the marlins would ask for 2 of our 55 grade pitching prospects, which is basically only soroka and Wright for sure. Maybe tuoki and Ian Anderson have a case for this grade as well, but so far I haven’t seen a 55 slapped on them yet. It would take 3 of our 50 grade pitchers which is the Wilson, fried, Wentz, Gohara plus the debateable Anderson and tuokki. Allard isn’t a 50 anymore, more likely a 40-45. We could also give one of our 55s and 2 50s. But all of these packages still come up a bit short, so we would then need to throw in another “someone else”. We could also try building a package around someone like Pache or Drew Waters, who will probably get some 55 grades after this season. Though I’d prefer to keep these guys if possible.

    Also, if the Marlins are shopping JT half the league is going to be interested, so it’ll take an overpay. If someone offers a 60 grade bat then we probably won’t match the offer. In short, The trade for him would hurt, but our organizational strength is upper level pitching specs so I’m in favor of making a move.

    We have a hitter or 2 with a 60 or better rating in 1 area of hitting, but not overall. Those are really rare at the minor league level.
    We're probably going to make any big trade with a starting pitcher as the center piece. I'm not sure which position players might be thrown in, Riley or Pache ? No doubt the cost will be high on paper, the actual cost won't be known till those guys develop into whatever they become.

    We've got the better end of most deals in recent years.

  • donmdonm Posts: 10,241 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @WCDawg said:

    @Kirbstomper said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @BoroDawg said:

    @georgiaboy said:
    Sign the Marlins catcher (JT Realmuto), resign Markakis and shore up the bull pen and watch us go!

    Considering Realmuto isn’t a free agent, don’t think we’ll be signing him... We could trade for him, but it would take multiple top 100 prospects to get him and trading with division rivals rarely happens.

    I count 9 pitchers still in our minor league system with trade value.
    Management could make 4 or 5 untouchable, then give The Marlins their pick any one of the rest, and negotiate another player or 2 to add to the package.

    So I’m pretty studied up on this stuff and also am in favor of trading for Realmuto, so here’s my take on the trade. It’s going to take more than one of our non untouchable pitchers and “someone else”, where I’m assuming you mean one of our 15-30 ranked prospects.

    Realmuto hs 2 arbitration years left and was worth 4.8 WAR this year. He is a Freddie freeman caliber player with 2 years where he will probably get paid like 30-35 million total if I remember my arbitration salary stuff correctly. This puts what the industry calls his surplus value (value as a player minus contract) at like 45 Million, conservatively.

    Here is a bit of a dated look at our prospect valuations https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/top-32-prospects-atlanta-braves-2/

    And here is a link to the value of prospects in surplus value https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/valuing-the-2017-top-100-prospects/

    That means the marlins would ask for 2 of our 55 grade pitching prospects, which is basically only soroka and Wright for sure. Maybe tuoki and Ian Anderson have a case for this grade as well, but so far I haven’t seen a 55 slapped on them yet. It would take 3 of our 50 grade pitchers which is the Wilson, fried, Wentz, Gohara plus the debateable Anderson and tuokki. Allard isn’t a 50 anymore, more likely a 40-45. We could also give one of our 55s and 2 50s. But all of these packages still come up a bit short, so we would then need to throw in another “someone else”. We could also try building a package around someone like Pache or Drew Waters, who will probably get some 55 grades after this season. Though I’d prefer to keep these guys if possible.

    Also, if the Marlins are shopping JT half the league is going to be interested, so it’ll take an overpay. If someone offers a 60 grade bat then we probably won’t match the offer. In short, The trade for him would hurt, but our organizational strength is upper level pitching specs so I’m in favor of making a move.

    We have a hitter or 2 with a 60 or better rating in 1 area of hitting, but not overall. Those are really rare at the minor league level.
    We're probably going to make any big trade with a starting pitcher as the center piece. I'm not sure which position players might be thrown in, Riley or Pache ? No doubt the cost will be high on paper, the actual cost won't be known till those guys develop into whatever they become.

    We've got the better end of most deals in recent years.

    They have Dansby as the 4th most valuable player. That makes their rankings suspect to me.

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