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- Please no inappropriate usernames (remember that there may be youngsters in the room)
- Personal attacks on other community members are unacceptable, practice the good manners your mama taught you when engaging with fellow Dawg fans
- Use common sense and respect personal differences in the community: sexual and other inappropriate language or imagery, political rants and belittling the opinions of others will get your posts deleted and result in warnings and/ or banning from the forum
- 3/17/19 UPDATE -- We've updated the permissions for our "Football" and "Commit to the G" recruiting message boards. We aim to be the best free board out there and that has not changed. We do now ask that all of you good people register as a member of our forum in order to see the sugar that is falling from our skies, so to speak.
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Doing well still over in Germany. Weather is amazing right now but can't travel which kinda takes the fun out of living overseas. Its mandatory to wear face masks on base now so that's taken some getting used to. I'm not a big fan of it. Makes me feel like i'm playing red dead redemption and i'm about to get robbed. Still no word on when restrictions will be lifted.
My social distancing a few minutes ago.
What happened in Michigan yesterday will continue. Some will protest lockdowns, some will protest hunger, some will protest poverty.
Hope that doesn't get nasty in big cities.
There are several barometers for this situation - sports is a good one.
I think I may know another - Disney World...
Give me your guess to when it opens up (the actual parks) for business...
28 states offer mail-in ballots and 5 conduct their elections entirely through mail. Not only that, but the president himself voted by mail in Florida’s primary election last month and in the 2018 midterms. If it is in fact “extremely fraudulent”, you’d think he wouldn’t do it himself in addition to nearly half the country. If things are still hot by November, mail-in is the way to go in order to protect the population. Don’t even get me started on the Diebold voting machines used in GA, now that’s extremely fraudulent.
Yes....I realize the casualties. And acknowledged it in my post. It's an awful and disturbing consequence.
How confident are you that shelter in place won't result in worse consequences?
And it seems that some are throwing out that the obvious recession/depression is just gonna happen.....we'll just have to fight through it....I just don't think it's that simple.
I'm not suggesting in any way that this virus isn't awful. It's an evil SOB. I'm not downplaying the importance of social distancing....obviously things have to change.....some forever.
And I understand your fear and why you feel the way you do. And I'm not suggesting you are wrong.
But I'll argue that those that think we should be cautious, continue to shelter in place and save as many lives as possible....regardless of the economic ramifications...may be overlooking just how dangerous that optuon could be as well.
The problem with making any decision in this climate is we have no idea what the real consequences are. Some models predict 40,000 US deaths while others predict 2,000,000. If I were making the call, I might go two different directions based on which numbers I thought were most accurate.
Another unknown is the actual economic detriment a sustained shelter-in-place will have, how soon we can recover from it, etc. How many jobs will be permanently destroyed? What psychological affects will follow? And while we really don't know any specific answers, the generalities are pretty clear. Everyone will be affected to some extent. I consider myself fortunate to have a job that is very stable. I could ignore this side of the equation as I will likely be affected less than most. But that would be unrealistic.
All this to say, the only sure things are that some people will die from COVID 19 and everyone will be affected by the economy. I don't know that I can firmly make a decision on that, but I think it is pretty obvious which way I'm leaning on the issue.
BTW, I couldn't care less about the political ramifications. I've been blissfully excusing myself from political discord for years now.
With the price of admission at Disney World/Land, they ought to throw in a hazmat suit for everybody and get this thing going.
To be clear, I’m certain of very little. Much more intelligent people than me are also certain of very little. I feel as though this won’t pass soon, and I’d be happy to be wrong.
My comment on recession/depression comes down to 2 awful options; first is that shelter in place stops or slows business to a halt and there’s just an extension of the unemployment we’re already seeing. Second is that we open things up a bit more and subject more people to the virus, which will cause more hospital issues and most likely infect more people on the front lines - first responders, people in charge of shipping and distributing food. What happens if your local office has a case of covid? Are we going to have rolling outages of work as this hits every corner of the country? The psychological impact is also going to take a toll where a lot of people won’t go to restaurants, theaters, museums, get on planes - those businesses are going to get crushed. To me, it seems a recession is inevitable because we are sandwiched between the proverbial rock and a hard place. I doubt opening things up avoids a recession, and shelter in place definitely won’t work economically for long. Again, no good options and we’re all in this together.
The opening up of the economy in the manner that you suggest has untold consequences. The infection rate of healthcare workers indicates just how difficult it is to prevent infection even with masks and gloves. The post I made earlier to get to the number of deaths at 2.6 million assumed that the current apparent mortality rate of 8% of "Cases" (not infections) continues. If you start opening up sporting events, movies, concerts etc. it is impossible to socially distance. This will lead to the health system being brought to it's knees and the rate could easily doubled. Of those currently hospitalized 80% recover and are discharged. As the rate of spread increases many of the "80%" won't even get admitted to get the life-saving care that they need due to lack of space and equipment. Further response times to "normal" 911 calls will be extended and many more such incidents be it GSW, road accidents, heart attacks etc. will result in avoidable deaths. The misconception is that only the old will die. Most of the indirect deaths impact all genders and ages alike.
The issue I have with "Let Americans decide for themselves what risks they choose to live with." is that the risks will be felt by those that choose not to take them as well. For example, a restaurant worker goes to a sporting event and contracts the virus, goes to work the next day and infects customers and coworkers who then die. The same would apply to any worker that has contact with customers.
The economy can only recover when this pandemic is under better control than it is today. We are after all a consumer driven economy (which has been increasingly debt driven) and politicians and CEOs can decide to open all they want but if the consumer thinks that it is even less safe to go to the restaurant, store or whatever, the business will not succeed nor survive.
Good points. Difficult all around
All good points. And I acknowledged that the death rate would be staggering. It's an awful evil virus of which we have never seen.
And although all that argue for shelter in place certainly acknowledge the financial ramifications.....they do so assuming that the virus will cause more damage......and that is not necessarily true.
I'm on the side, like many experts are, that continuing shelter in place will cause more grief and destruction than the virus.
But unlike many on here, I readily admit that it's my opinion and I could be wrong. I'm listening to one "truth" while others are listening to another "truth".
There seem to be a number of Dawgnation members that are very knowledgeable in the medical field and seem to understand this virus. You may be one of them ....and I greatly respect what is being said by them.
But to suggest that shelter in place is the only way to go because the virus will cause more harm than the economy will......is just as irresponsible as me saying to open it up.
Millions of lives will be destroyed whether we close it down or open it up. What no one knows.....certainly not me and certainly not you. Is which decision will destroy the most lives.
I'm glad you seem confident in knowing which is the best approach...... I'm not so confident.
But I will say....from the bottom of my heart....that I hope and pray that you and your family stay safe.....both physically and financially.
I don't mind the DV.....never have....but in a situation like this why don't you explain why you disagree instead of taking the cowardly DV approach. Maybe I should be educated by you more.
To each his own ....I've never DVd anyone for differing oponions....guess it's just a respect thing.
Coming out of quarantine 20lbs fatter, $1200 richer & no barber
Lol! Kenny Powers and "The Panty Dropper" .....
I'm curious, how far are you (anybody who cares to respond) taking the shelter in place orders? Would you be surprised to hear that rush hour traffic still exists? Would you be shocked to see the Lowes parking lot full of eager shoppers on a Saturday?
As one of the ones required to still go in to work, I can vouch that the above is true in my area and I've confirmed the same with friends and family in many other parts of the country.
I'm curious if there is a misconception of what economic activity already exists under shelter in place versus what it would look like if we opened it up more. It has not been entirely shut down anywhere. It will not be entirely opened up anytime soon. We should be discussing this in degrees, not either/or.
You know it
Don't shoot the messenger, but this seems like a rational approach to a very delicate national challenge:
Will be interesting to see if/how certain states manage their COVID-related reporting on cases & tests each day if the gating event to advance from one phase to the next is 14 days of downward trend.
Wife and I have been "secluded" for about a month and a half. Both of us had a "bug" towards the end of February. Looking back, seemed like a lot of the "mild" symptoms, felt weak, bad cough etc. but never had shortness of breath or a high fever. It was a 10 day ordeal for the both of us and we stayed home. Both of us are self employed and work from home anyway.
By the time we felt better, the CV-19 was hitting a major upswing, and the shelter in place was put in place. We were pretty much there already so it wasn't a big deal. We are not ones that got out socially much any way. To the store and used to meet friends for a drink on occasion, but that is about it. So we're not missing much in that area.
I feel bad driving through our small town and seeing all the businesses closed. I hope they can recover, but it's going to take walk-in customers to do that.
My wife is a real estate agent and I do home inspections. Even though we both are considered "essential" due to trying to keep the market active and flowing, it too has shut down. Wife had her first closing of the year yesterday. Over 10 at the same time last year. I've done 3 home inspections this year. I was doing 3 a week this time last year. So, it's hitting everyone hard. Hope we all can stay afloat.
Prayers to all!
Does don't kiss the messenger apply as well