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yeah, we were having a good discussion.
Doesn't Georgia have something like a 20%+ positive rate? Obviously 20% of Georgians don't have coronavirus, but I think that shows the testing is insufficient at this time.
I'm trying to keep the word I'm not supposed to say out of it.
It's difficult to disagree with what @RxDawg is saying......but I also understand it's not that simple.
Clearly the conservative side is wanting to open things up to save the economy.......hopefully some of the reasoning is because they want to save the country.....but obviously it's also political. If the economy is really bad.....or they look bad handling this crises.....they won't win.
But the liberal side is causing significant issues as well. There is clearly a campaign to undermine our President and the media has been relentless. Again, hopefully part of the reasoning behind the liberals decision making is they want to save lives.....but obviously it's also politics.....they can't afford to give Our President credit for anything and it's clear that many of them don't want to see the economy turn around.
I've mentioned this before.....but the Michigan situation is a perfect example of what's wrong with everything.......the Liberal governor is obviously trying to make a statement with some of her decisions.......hurting the people of Michigan.
But the protesters, we can assume are mostly conservative, are showing up in large crowds without social distancing and without face coverings. How ignorant can that be.
Both are wrong.
Regardless of what race, religion or political affiliation we are.......this virus is awful. It's a killer......both to human life and to the financial well being of this country.
Being an election year has just complicated the whole thing. If this was year one in Trump's presidency then I'm confident our leaders would work together better and make decisions that benefited the country as a whole.
Bush had that with 9/11. Being early in his presidency helped him.
The American people are getting screwed in this crises. Both parties are screwing us. Decisions aren't being made to help the American people..... they are being made to help a particular party.
Is shelter in place killing this country......very likely. Is opening the country back up killing this country......very likely.
The articles that everyone are posting are skewed. Probably mostly truth... but skewed one way or another (charts, data and graphs can be made to show whatever someone wants it to say) The television news is definitely skewed....and there is definitely a campaign to undermine our President.
This country deserves more. We deserve the right answers and the right plan for success. The Democrats aren't going to give it to us. And it pains me to say that the Republicans won't either.
The American people are going to have to figure this out.
Finally......Trump is getting screwed.....but truth be told......as @CTDawg said.... Obama got screwed as well. It's been going on forever......but it seems to have gotten out of hand during Clinton.
There has been so much hatred for Clinton, Bush, Obama and Trump. And it's because no one is fairly covered by the media any longer. Is there any question which side a particular media outlet leans. It's either one way or another.
Unfortunately, especially in regards to this horrible virus......this is one time that America could lose big......either by death or financial collapse.
We deserve more. Hopefully we'll get it.
Thank you for answering my questions. It seems to me there was a bit of elitism from a three letter govt agency that doesn't want to trust anyone from lower levels. This happens so frequently that I can't believe its still allowed to continue. I have seen it so many times from the intel side that its just mind boggling. They wanted complete control and were to stubborn to acknowledge they were over their heads until it was too late. The reagent thing was most likely an honest mistake but at that level its intolerable especially in a situation like this. I'm sure this fact also caused the CDC to hesitate on letting others in as they knew the error would become widely known. We really shot ourselves in the foot from the get go.
Its just my opinion but I can't lay all the blame on the Pres Admin. I think they tried to go with the experts but the experts dropped the ball and then took to long to acknowledge they needed help. I have lost a lot of faith in the CDC. Not trying to give the Pres a pass on this but trying to look at the whole picture.
I know the Germans invested a lot in the tracing program and they did have drive thru testing for random population tests. It seems to have worked pretty well. They are slowly opening back up. I believe large stores like IKEA can reopen today but restaurants bars and dance clubs are still closed. In two weeks businesses like hair saloons are supposed to be able to reopen if the numbers hold steady or decrease. One thing i have learned for sure is that the German people are very efficient and love creating complicated rules to follow. If anyone ever moves out here be sure to read all the small print on getting out of your cellphone and internet contracts. Its a PITA
A point I want to stress is the lack of crap given to the CDC. If the problem is allegedly no early testing, and they screwed up the early tests, how has somebody not lost their job? How is that organization not at the center of all finger-pointing from both sides of the aisle?
Pretty sure that organization exists for a time such as this...
It seems to me that the goalposts have been moved. Were we not sold on the shelter-in-place because we wanted to flatten the curve and avoid overwhelming our hospitals? If that has been accomplished (my understanding is we have, in fact, flattened the curve) what is the purpose of continuing the shelter-in-place? If the curve hasn't been flattened, then why keep applying a strategy that isn't working, especially one with such a high cost.
We keep hearing about waiting for a vaccine to be ready. That wasn't the original deal. 18 months of shelter-in-place is going to kill the economy. Only the rich and well connected will avoid complete financial ruin. I'm not for that plan.
We can't commit suicide to avoid getting sick.
@Bankwalker Yeah, 1400 is a good deal. Good deal for the surgeon. Much better than the 500 I thought was being paid.
And thanks for that article. Sort of illustrates my point about payments to providers being too low. Or at least patients' expectation of provider payments.
The actual payout of $1430 vs. $8902 that patients estimated meant that patients' estimates were six times greater than actual. That's a huge difference in perception versus reality.
It's a balancing act for sure. Managed care is a good thing as it promotes lower costs. But that has to be balanced against our provider community being compensated fairly. $1400 for the surgeon seems about right.
In my case, $7500 for the hospital plus $1800 for the physician seemed excessive. For a 2-hour visit to the hospital just to treat pain?
And just to be clear, I had an old supply of pain killers from my last kidney stone. But Renal pain is like no other and prevents you from keeping anything down.
I think the speed and depth at which some of these state governments are opening is troublesome. I think re-opening somethings is a good idea. restaurants with half the tables to ensure distancing. maybe the same with bars. but some businesses on that list just don't make sense. are bowling alleys disinfecting the balls every time down the lane? what about the shoes?
This is as political as I'm ever going to get. It is totally sick that our country, as great as it is, sends all of these idiots to Washington. That goes for both sides of the isle.
I've had 2 ureteroscopies. Renal pain IS like no other.
Especially considering how minuscule the culprit actually is.
I think all elected officials should forgo their salary until the country opens back up
I hate politics. This is where I am with this whole thing:
@texdawg I generally agree with you. We have to sort through the media we consume and decide for ourselves what we find reliable and how it should be acted on. A general rule that applies to everyone is never get all your information from one place. We all have biases and that is going to affect what outlets we trust and how we interpret the same situations in different ways. The Whitmer scenario is a perfect example. You don't like what she's doing, but I'm sympathetic to the tough situation she is in and how she has handled it. For context Michigan is the third worst state for COVID-19 with cases on the rise. Her admin is looking at New York and how being just a couple or few days behind on social distancing/sheltering had really bad consequences for the state while California's early and aggressive actions helped avert relatively major consequences. No doubt you can analyze her executive order and find ways it could be made better, but for some outlets to say she is being a dictator and protesters carrying "Heil Whitmer" signs is an overreaction. We both agree the protesters are morons for clustering without protection. The cynic in me believes much of the Whitmer criticism is rooted in political gamesmanship. She's widely believed to be the front runner for Biden's VP, so there is incentive from conservative outlets to smear her. Regardless, it doesn't matter what the motivation is. All we can do is look at what's happening and judge for ourselves.
I have supported my local economy as much as possible through this by ordering take out and gift cards and donating them to hospital workers
However, I will not be getting a tattoo and a haircut on Friday. That can wait until next month.
There is no question that much of the smear of Whitmer is politically motivated. Any conservative who can't admit that is either ignorant or nieve.
And I certainly appreciate that she is in a difficult position of leadership.
But like you said.....she is a leading VP candidate which is why some of her decisions are politically motivated.
Trump is getting smeared worse than she is and blamed for things that are/were completely out of his control.
You're making my point for me.
Being an election year will probably cost more lives and cause more hardship because the stakes of losing the election are so high.
In the end......America loses......unless.... somehow someway.......Americans figure this out. Not Democrats/Republicans or liberals/conservatives.
As it should be. Yet... that's not what we are seeing from a certain section of our political and media world these days is it?
To be fair that elitism was well earned. The CDC was the paragon for dealing with infectious diseases and anything that could be considered an epidemic. Every country modeled their own disease control program after the CDC. No matter where in the world an epidemic or potential pandemic was unfolding the CDC was on the ground coordinating a response. The world looked to the CDC to lead and time after time after time they came through. That's why these failures have rattled not only the US but the world. Who is going to lead if we can't rely on the CDC?
We already know why the early tests failed. They were preparing the kits in the same lab where the virus was being tested. A rookie mistake that lead to contamination. Some of the test components were also improperly designed which lead to failure. That was also a rookie mistake. I'm not kidding when I say I could take @texdawg's son and teach him to design those components in an hour or two. A preliminary investigation has shown that no one at the CDC knew who was running point on creating the kits. Maybe no one? This indicates disorganization and a clear lack of leadership. We need to launch a broad investigation to understand how the CDC has become so chaotic and disorganized in such a short period of time.
To be clear the CDC does not deserve all the blame and shouldn't be scapegoated. There is plenty to go around. The FDA dragged its feet on not lifting regulations to allow private companies, universities, and hospitals to create and use their own tests. High level leaders in South Korea held meetings with companies and told them to make tests and guaranteed rapid approval circumventing the normal regulations because they feared a pandemic was unfolding. The meeting was on Jan 27th and several tests were approved by early February. No reason for us not to do the same. Part of the reason we even knew that the virus was spreading in the US was that researchers in Seattle told the FDA and CDC they couldn't wait any longer and made their own unapproved tests. This confirmed their fears of community transmission in the greater Seattle area.
I see blame coming from both sides. I see it from all sections. Democrats/Republicans as well as CNN/Fox News both do it in their own ways
And you've proved my point that we see the same things and come to different conclusions. It's a circle. But you are right that the sword cuts both ways. Personally, I don't see the political gain in implementing harsh stay at home orders. I genuinely believe she is acting in good faith doing what she thinks is best for her citizens. It's fair game to disagree with some of the minutiae of her policies though.
You honestly don't see the political gain in harsh stay at home orders?
Loss of civil liberties, the dependence on the federal government, transfer of wealth.
Govt workers will survive this, college professors will survive, teachers will survive, the hi- tech executives will survive, the ultra wealthy will survive, the entertainment/Hollywood industry will probably survive.
The small business owner, the restaurant owner the entrepreneur have no chance.
Harsh stay at home measures have huge political gain.