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COVID-19 Check-in 2.0

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Comments

  • GrayDawgGrayDawg Posts: 1,907 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    The economy is much more complex than that overly simplified statement. Even if your claim that it is consumer confidence that causes unemployment (big stretch) is taken as a fact, then we must assume the shutdown caused a massive reduction in consumer confidence which in turn caused unemployment to skyrocket.

  • Canedawg2140Canedawg2140 Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    And, I thought the argument was:

    "If the virus is stopped, the economy will come back... As soon as we get cases and deaths down, we will be fine..."

    Sweden has done both. And I am being told they are in economic shambles. Like the rest of Europe.

    But, our economy was in a much better place going in. Again, apples and oranges.

    But are virus comparisons any better? We are probably much closer as a species to those folks than we are as an economy (tongue and cheek). But I have always said you should compare our STATES to those countries to get a better look.

    I think the virus has won so far in both places...

  • BankwalkerBankwalker Posts: 5,348 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited July 2020

    I need to move to Sweden. Does everyone have two houses?

    This is hard to discuss reasonably because it involves an assessment of “acceptable loss of human life” but isn’t that what we do before deciding how much money gets applied to medical research for one disease vs another?

    In theory, Covid should be a one time event, whereas other causes of death are ongoing year after year.

    How much do we spend annually trying to prevent the 650,000 heart disease deaths annually? Not any where near $2 trillion dollars

    Same question about the following:

    500,000 who die of cancer annually.

    160,000 who die of COPD

    146,000 who die of a ****

    83,000 from diabetes

    The above constitute almost 1.5 MILLION deaths a year on their own. The problem is that of the 140,000 Americans who have died of Covid, all but 6% already had one of the above medical conditions, and most had more than one of the above medical conditions 80% of the deceased are 65 or older. A quarter had already exceeded the average life expectancy of an American citizen(78.9 years)

    My question is “How many of those 140,000 plus the others to follow, were going to die within the next few years? The answer is we don’t know but it would likely have been an astonishing percentage because a huge percentage were people who were already unhealthy. Sorry, but that really does matter. This thing is not really taking out healthy people, which is why an ebola type response would not have been appropriate.

    We were NEVER going to see millions die from this, and while Sweden may not be a good measure for herd immunity, it is the poster child for doing nothing. I’ll bet Georgia has near the same number of deaths as Sweden in the end.

    Now look at the cost we’ve inflicted. The trillions spent by the Federal Govt are just the tip of the biggest iceberg in history.

    The budgets of every State and local government has been absolutely crushed, plus the loss of individual wealth and small to medium sized businesses.

    Honestly, who isn’t worried that if this continues it could result in the downfall of our civilization? Dramatic? Not in my opinion. Money is why the Soviet Union fell.

    People die. Every day. Lots of them. The excess deaths we’ve experienced this year will be made up in the next few years because those same people won’t be here to die of the above mentioned causes of death.

    If we have ever had a reason to overthrow our Govt, then this is it. Problem is, I’m not sure that’s not what’s really going on already.

  • BankwalkerBankwalker Posts: 5,348 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited July 2020

    Speaking of Sweden, I had a client yesterday tell me her MIL had recently died over there. She had cancer, and started suffering from dementia. She’s in her 80’s. All of the kids are spread out and nobody had power of attorney.

    So they bring the ole girl in for treatment and tell her they need to run a few tests. She asks, “Does that mean you are going to stick me?” Yes, they told her. She said, “Oh I don’t want you to do that because it hurts.” Remember, she also has dementia.

    Because she told the person she didn't want to be stuck with a needle, they labeled her as refusing healthcare and sent her back to the nursing home to die - which has since happened. The family was told there was nothing they could do because nobody had power of attorney.

    The Swedes DGAF

  • BankwalkerBankwalker Posts: 5,348 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited July 2020

    Seriously? If economic downturn and deaths were the issue don’t you think we’d have the same numbers?

    I see. We don’t need a government mandate. We just need more people to die.

  • YaleDawgYaleDawg Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Sounds like they followed the law and medical ethics? Unless they have a law for compulsory medical care in that situation you can't give help to someone who refuses.

  • BankwalkerBankwalker Posts: 5,348 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited July 2020

    That is exactly the position I would expect you to take, and it is how things will be here someday if certain folks get their way.

    You can numb the spot where you are going to stick a needle. It really requires a complete lack of caring and compassion to not be able to get someone to try a needle vs certain death.

  • Denmen185Denmen185 Posts: 7,594 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    As I said before NY is similar to Europe and their rate is 1,667 which would be #1 according to your chart (except for NJ which is 1,754)

  • YaleDawgYaleDawg Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    It is how things are in most places. The right to self determination is at the core of all medical decisions. You can't just violate it.

  • BankwalkerBankwalker Posts: 5,348 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    NY is like Europe in a number of ways. One is that the local government owns and operates the NYC public hospital system, which is where most poor people would wind up. Good ole government run healthcare, right?

    I reference back to Cuomo - “60% of infections occurred during the lockdown.”

    I think people can easily understand why a disease of this nature would spread thru a prison. When you lockdown a high rise building, haven’t you created very similar circumstances, except the people are free to roam the building with one another?

    Lockdowns killed people.

  • Denmen185Denmen185 Posts: 7,594 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    I get it. If there was no lockdown the people in the same apartment or block wouldn't socialize with each other so the virus wouldn't spread. Given the lockdown was late March until early June it isn't surprising. In a normal season 90% of the points scored in college football are scored between the Saturday before Labor Day and the weekend after thanksgiving.

  • BankwalkerBankwalker Posts: 5,348 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    It was a sloppy argument. I don’t have data to back it up, except the fact cases went up immediately after just about every lockdown.

    I have been looking at the trends across the World, and noticed that most european countries seemed to reach the same death rate per million and then the virus dropped off. That was in the data I posted above. So I started doing internet searches just to see if it is a real thing and apparently others have noticed, too.

    I found this guy, who had already put together the same argument. Only time will tell.


  • Canedawg2140Canedawg2140 Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    Personal confidence in what GummiBear737 says... 3.78%

    Personal confidence in what I just heard on the #&@$ channel as I flipped through all the news networks... 4.12%

    So, Gummi's opinion has a somewhat similar impact on my thoughts these days...

This discussion has been closed.