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Greatest basketball player of all time

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  • Options
    JRT812JRT812 Posts: 4,697 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @Reeldawg said:

    @JRT812 said:
    Pistol

    I am surprised no else mentioned Maravich.

    Thank you Reeldawg bro! He never gets mentioned in these types of conversations. Dude was one of the guys who changed the game.

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    BamaDawgBamaDawg Posts: 2,523 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    Other

    How do youbleave Larry Bird off that list?

  • Options
    WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    Other

    @pgjackson said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @PeachCoDawg said:
    If you really understand basketball, and take everything in to account and are old enough to at least be comparing 80s-now changes in personnel, rules changes, etc I don't even see how this could be an argument. Jordan. All day, all night.

    And not just in basketball. He might be the most dominant pro athlete of all time. Gretzky is right up there as was Montana and Brady is now. I’d put LeBron in this group, but Jordan is at the top.

    Jordan was great in basketball, he was never even a top amature in any other sport. Otto Graham was great at the highest level in multiple sports. I could list MANY athletes who were superior overall to MJ.

    I'm talking pro sports. Please don't start listing Michael Phelps or wrestler Alexander Karelin or some other Olympian with tons of gold medals. I'm talking major pro sports (football, basketball, baseball, tennis, hockey, golf...) Nobody dominated their sport the way MJ dominated the NBA.

    Jordan was really a one sport athlete compared to the truly versatile greats like Graham, Bo and Deon Sanders.

  • Options
    WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    Other

    @BamaDawg said:
    How do youbleave Larry Bird off that list?

    Bird is the #2 PF all time behind only Lebron.

  • Options
    WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    Other

    @judasdurant said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @Dawgy_Fresh said:

    @SoFL_Dawg said:

    @judasdurant said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @judasdurant said:

    @pgjackson said:
    Here are the guys Jordan played against in the 80s and 90s

    Magic
    Bird
    Barkley
    Hakeem
    Dominique
    I. Thomas
    Malone
    Kareem
    McHale
    Laimbeer
    Shaq
    Robinson
    Ewing
    Kemp
    Mullen
    Mutombo
    Drexler
    Stockton
    Pippen
    Olajuwon

    There is nothing like that the last 10 years in the NBA. The late 80’s to early 90’s were the heyday of the NBA.

    I counter with
    Durant
    Duncan
    Iverson
    Tmac
    AD
    Curry
    Giannis
    Kobe
    Shaq
    Dwight
    Dwade
    Garnett
    Harden
    Westbrook
    Cp3
    Draymond green
    Klay Thompson
    Paul George
    Melo
    Derrick Rose
    Paul pierce
    Jason kid
    Steve Nash
    Dirk

    Gimme the bottom list over the top

    Seriously? Don't even know who half those guys are. The guys I listed from the 80's and 90's practically defined the sport. Those are guys even people who never saw them play know who they are. I didn't even have to list a full name. You know who they are by one name.

    And how tough is the NBA now that kids are coming right out of HS or only one year of college and starting?

    You just came in with a list that included Kevin Mchale and are saying that the NBA players i posted are irrelevant. I didn’t have to put a full name for any of those players, i just did it for a couple. And straight to the pros from high school has been happening since Moses Malone in 1974

    Butting in here but Mchale is considered a top 5 PF in history of the game by other players. Barkley considers him the best for example.

    I would say Duncan, K. Malone, M. Malone, Mchale, Barkley in that order.

    I think Michael is a top 10 PF but I’d put KG, Dirk, Elgin Baylor and Hayes over Mchale.

    McHale was unguardable in the low post, but he was not a ball handler or shooter.

    Mchale would be unplayable in 2018

    He would be unguardable in any era, that will get you playing time.
    While his strengths wouldn't be ideal for the motion offenses like GS runs. Those Celtics teams were the standard for a full court integrated passing and shooting offense.

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    pgjacksonpgjackson Posts: 17,749 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @WCDawg said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @PeachCoDawg said:
    If you really understand basketball, and take everything in to account and are old enough to at least be comparing 80s-now changes in personnel, rules changes, etc I don't even see how this could be an argument. Jordan. All day, all night.

    And not just in basketball. He might be the most dominant pro athlete of all time. Gretzky is right up there as was Montana and Brady is now. I’d put LeBron in this group, but Jordan is at the top.

    Jordan was great in basketball, he was never even a top amature in any other sport. Otto Graham was great at the highest level in multiple sports. I could list MANY athletes who were superior overall to MJ.

    I'm talking pro sports. Please don't start listing Michael Phelps or wrestler Alexander Karelin or some other Olympian with tons of gold medals. I'm talking major pro sports (football, basketball, baseball, tennis, hockey, golf...) Nobody dominated their sport the way MJ dominated the NBA.

    Jordan was really a one sport athlete compared to the truly versatile greats like Graham, Bo and Deon Sanders.

    You like to argue. I didn’t say he was the greatest multi-sport athlete. I said he dominated his professional sport unlike anyone else. Nobody has ever said “Bo Jackson or Deion Sanders was the greatest football player ever”. They were great multi-sport athletes, but they are on nobody’s All-Time Greatest list for baseball or football.

  • Options
    donmdonm Posts: 10,241 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @pgjackson said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @PeachCoDawg said:
    If you really understand basketball, and take everything in to account and are old enough to at least be comparing 80s-now changes in personnel, rules changes, etc I don't even see how this could be an argument. Jordan. All day, all night.

    And not just in basketball. He might be the most dominant pro athlete of all time. Gretzky is right up there as was Montana and Brady is now. I’d put LeBron in this group, but Jordan is at the top.

    Jordan was great in basketball, he was never even a top amature in any other sport. Otto Graham was great at the highest level in multiple sports. I could list MANY athletes who were superior overall to MJ.

    I'm talking pro sports. Please don't start listing Michael Phelps or wrestler Alexander Karelin or some other Olympian with tons of gold medals. I'm talking major pro sports (football, basketball, baseball, tennis, hockey, golf...) Nobody dominated their sport the way MJ dominated the NBA.

    Jordan was really a one sport athlete compared to the truly versatile greats like Graham, Bo and Deon Sanders.

    You like to argue. I didn’t say he was the greatest multi-sport athlete. I said he dominated his professional sport unlike anyone else. Nobody has ever said “Bo Jackson or Deion Sanders was the greatest football player ever”. They were great multi-sport athletes, but they are on nobody’s All-Time Greatest list for baseball or football.

    Prime TIme is often mentioned amongst the greatest CB's, I think. Bo's career was too short for him to be elevated to legend status. He is, though, one of the best all around athletes ever, in my experience.

  • Options
    WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    Other

    @pgjackson said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @PeachCoDawg said:
    If you really understand basketball, and take everything in to account and are old enough to at least be comparing 80s-now changes in personnel, rules changes, etc I don't even see how this could be an argument. Jordan. All day, all night.

    And not just in basketball. He might be the most dominant pro athlete of all time. Gretzky is right up there as was Montana and Brady is now. I’d put LeBron in this group, but Jordan is at the top.

    Jordan was great in basketball, he was never even a top amature in any other sport. Otto Graham was great at the highest level in multiple sports. I could list MANY athletes who were superior overall to MJ.

    I'm talking pro sports. Please don't start listing Michael Phelps or wrestler Alexander Karelin or some other Olympian with tons of gold medals. I'm talking major pro sports (football, basketball, baseball, tennis, hockey, golf...) Nobody dominated their sport the way MJ dominated the NBA.

    Jordan was really a one sport athlete compared to the truly versatile greats like Graham, Bo and Deon Sanders.

    You like to argue. I didn’t say he was the greatest multi-sport athlete. I said he dominated his professional sport unlike anyone else. Nobody has ever said “Bo Jackson or Deion Sanders was the greatest football player ever”. They were great multi-sport athletes, but they are on nobody’s All-Time Greatest list for baseball or football.

    Whether you're one of them or not I won't bother checking, but the claim has been made that Jordan is basically superior at other sports than basketball, he is not and never was.
    Sanders, Otto Graham, Elway, Ainge and MANY others were better at second sports than MJ was.

  • Options
    Mickey_HandMickey_Hand Posts: 871 ✭✭✭✭ Senior

    Meadowlark Lemon ;):D

  • Options
    donmdonm Posts: 10,241 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @WCDawg said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @PeachCoDawg said:
    If you really understand basketball, and take everything in to account and are old enough to at least be comparing 80s-now changes in personnel, rules changes, etc I don't even see how this could be an argument. Jordan. All day, all night.

    And not just in basketball. He might be the most dominant pro athlete of all time. Gretzky is right up there as was Montana and Brady is now. I’d put LeBron in this group, but Jordan is at the top.

    Jordan was great in basketball, he was never even a top amature in any other sport. Otto Graham was great at the highest level in multiple sports. I could list MANY athletes who were superior overall to MJ.

    I'm talking pro sports. Please don't start listing Michael Phelps or wrestler Alexander Karelin or some other Olympian with tons of gold medals. I'm talking major pro sports (football, basketball, baseball, tennis, hockey, golf...) Nobody dominated their sport the way MJ dominated the NBA.

    Jordan was really a one sport athlete compared to the truly versatile greats like Graham, Bo and Deon Sanders.

    You like to argue. I didn’t say he was the greatest multi-sport athlete. I said he dominated his professional sport unlike anyone else. Nobody has ever said “Bo Jackson or Deion Sanders was the greatest football player ever”. They were great multi-sport athletes, but they are on nobody’s All-Time Greatest list for baseball or football.

    Whether you're one of them or not I won't bother checking, but the claim has been made that Jordan is basically superior at other sports than basketball, he is not and never was.
    Sanders, Otto Graham, Elway, Ainge and MANY others were better at second sports than MJ was.

    Hard to argue with that. Uncle Charlie/slider proved to be MJ's downfall in baseball.

  • Options
    DamnYankeeDawgDamnYankeeDawg Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    Jordan

    @WCDawg said:

    @BamaDawg said:
    How do youbleave Larry Bird off that list?

    Bird is the #2 PF all time behind only Lebron.

    Bird > LeBron. If you go on stats, they're essentially the same through age 30. If you use actual game stats, Bird is slightly better than LeBron. If you use the 100 possession metric, LeBron wins out. I would argue that Bird was a much better passer than LeBron although LeBron holds the advantage on APG. Bird's assists were lower because the Celtic teams were great passing teams and not just one guy dishing the rock.

    Why is Bird better? Crunch time. Plus, he may have been the greatest **** talker in the history of the league. One example that captures both scenarios. Xavier McDaniel. I saw a highlight where he nailed a game winner over X. Not only did he tell X where he was going to take the game winning shot, he drained the bucket but was pissed because the clock showed 1 second remaining. In classic Bird fashion, he told X "****! I didn't mean to leave any time left on the clock."

    No PF better during the season or the playoffs than Bird at the position when it counted most during a game.

  • Options
    WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited July 2018
    Other

    @DamnYankeeDawg said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @BamaDawg said:
    How do youbleave Larry Bird off that list?

    Bird is the #2 PF all time behind only Lebron.

    Bird > LeBron. If you go on stats, they're essentially the same through age 30. If you use actual game stats, Bird is slightly better than LeBron. If you use the 100 possession metric, LeBron wins out. I would argue that Bird was a much better passer than LeBron although LeBron holds the advantage on APG. Bird's assists were lower because the Celtic teams were great passing teams and not just one guy dishing the rock.

    Why is Bird better? Crunch time. Plus, he may have been the greatest **** talker in the history of the league. One example that captures both scenarios. Xavier McDaniel. I saw a highlight where he nailed a game winner over X. Not only did he tell X where he was going to take the game winning shot, he drained the bucket but was pissed because the clock showed 1 second remaining. In classic Bird fashion, he told X "****! I didn't mean to leave any time left on the clock."

    No PF better during the season or the playoffs than Bird at the position when it counted most during a game.

    Lebron has more assist because he serves as his teams' defacto PG on many possessions. Bird was the better passer though, that I'm sure of. Bird had the better basketball IQ, he was up there with Magic in that dept. Imagine Bird with Lebron's athletic gifts.

    I give Lebron the edge because he often physically takes over games in the clutch in a way almost nobody else ever has.

  • Options
    SoFL_DawgSoFL_Dawg Posts: 11,084 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    Jordan

    @DamnYankeeDawg said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @BamaDawg said:
    How do youbleave Larry Bird off that list?

    Bird is the #2 PF all time behind only Lebron.

    Bird > LeBron. If you go on stats, they're essentially the same through age 30. If you use actual game stats, Bird is slightly better than LeBron. If you use the 100 possession metric, LeBron wins out. I would argue that Bird was a much better passer than LeBron although LeBron holds the advantage on APG. Bird's assists were lower because the Celtic teams were great passing teams and not just one guy dishing the rock.

    Why is Bird better? Crunch time. Plus, he may have been the greatest **** talker in the history of the league. One example that captures both scenarios. Xavier McDaniel. I saw a highlight where he nailed a game winner over X. Not only did he tell X where he was going to take the game winning shot, he drained the bucket but was pissed because the clock showed 1 second remaining. In classic Bird fashion, he told X "****! I didn't mean to leave any time left on the clock."

    No PF better during the season or the playoffs than Bird at the position when it counted most during a game.

  • Options
    SoFL_DawgSoFL_Dawg Posts: 11,084 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    Jordan

    @DamnYankeeDawg said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @BamaDawg said:
    How do youbleave Larry Bird off that list?

    Bird is the #2 PF all time behind only Lebron.

    Bird > LeBron. If you go on stats, they're essentially the same through age 30. If you use actual game stats, Bird is slightly better than LeBron. If you use the 100 possession metric, LeBron wins out. I would argue that Bird was a much better passer than LeBron although LeBron holds the advantage on APG. Bird's assists were lower because the Celtic teams were great passing teams and not just one guy dishing the rock.

    Why is Bird better? Crunch time. Plus, he may have been the greatest **** talker in the history of the league. One example that captures both scenarios. Xavier McDaniel. I saw a highlight where he nailed a game winner over X. Not only did he tell X where he was going to take the game winning shot, he drained the bucket but was pissed because the clock showed 1 second remaining. In classic Bird fashion, he told X "****! I didn't mean to leave any time left on the clock."

    No PF better during the season or the playoffs than Bird at the position when it counted most during a game.

  • Options
    bmauldinbmauldin Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    Jordan

    Jordan as a scorer

    As an overwhelmingly dominant presence it has to be wilt and Shaq.

    When there are rules made because of you, that’s something special.

  • Options
    WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    Other

    @bmauldin said:
    Jordan as a scorer

    As an overwhelmingly dominant presence it has to be wilt and Shaq.

    When there are rules made because of you, that’s something special.

    Bill Russell owned Wilt where it counted most.

    2 college national titles
    11 professional titles.
    The highest defensive rating in NBA history by almost double the scoee of the #2 guy.

  • Options
    bmauldinbmauldin Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    Jordan

    @WCDawg said:

    @bmauldin said:
    Jordan as a scorer

    As an overwhelmingly dominant presence it has to be wilt and Shaq.

    When there are rules made because of you, that’s something special.

    Bill Russell owned Wilt where it counted most.

    2 college national titles
    11 professional titles.
    The highest defensive rating in NBA history by almost double the scoee of the #2 guy.

    Russell was definitely great. Really nice guy. Got to see him in person. Dr j was as well.

    I didn’t bother them, but was able to see them interact with fans outside of the range of cameras, so it definitely didn’t seem fake.

  • Options
    WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    Other

    @bmauldin said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @bmauldin said:
    Jordan as a scorer

    As an overwhelmingly dominant presence it has to be wilt and Shaq.

    When there are rules made because of you, that’s something special.

    Bill Russell owned Wilt where it counted most.

    2 college national titles
    11 professional titles.
    The highest defensive rating in NBA history by almost double the scoee of the #2 guy.

    Russell was definitely great. Really nice guy. Got to see him in person. Dr j was as well.

    I didn’t bother them, but was able to see them interact with fans outside of the range of cameras, so it definitely didn’t seem fake.

    Russell is articulate, extremely intelligent and very civic minded.

  • Options
    WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    Other

    @12ed said:
    Tim Tebow

    T-Bob is also Jesus's #2 guy.

  • Options
    pgjacksonpgjackson Posts: 17,749 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @WCDawg said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @PeachCoDawg said:
    If you really understand basketball, and take everything in to account and are old enough to at least be comparing 80s-now changes in personnel, rules changes, etc I don't even see how this could be an argument. Jordan. All day, all night.

    And not just in basketball. He might be the most dominant pro athlete of all time. Gretzky is right up there as was Montana and Brady is now. I’d put LeBron in this group, but Jordan is at the top.

    Jordan was great in basketball, he was never even a top amature in any other sport. Otto Graham was great at the highest level in multiple sports. I could list MANY athletes who were superior overall to MJ.

    I'm talking pro sports. Please don't start listing Michael Phelps or wrestler Alexander Karelin or some other Olympian with tons of gold medals. I'm talking major pro sports (football, basketball, baseball, tennis, hockey, golf...) Nobody dominated their sport the way MJ dominated the NBA.

    Jordan was really a one sport athlete compared to the truly versatile greats like Graham, Bo and Deon Sanders.

    You like to argue. I didn’t say he was the greatest multi-sport athlete. I said he dominated his professional sport unlike anyone else. Nobody has ever said “Bo Jackson or Deion Sanders was the greatest football player ever”. They were great multi-sport athletes, but they are on nobody’s All-Time Greatest list for baseball or football.

    Whether you're one of them or not I won't bother checking, but the claim has been made that Jordan is basically superior at other sports than basketball, he is not and never was.
    Sanders, Otto Graham, Elway, Ainge and MANY others were better at second sports than MJ was.

    Not me. He was definitely not a great multi-sport guy. But he dominated basketball like notbody ever dominated any sport.

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