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Greatest basketball player of all time

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    PeachCoDawgPeachCoDawg Posts: 489 ✭✭✭✭ Senior
    Jordan

    If you really understand basketball, and take everything in to account and are old enough to at least be comparing 80s-now changes in personnel, rules changes, etc I don't even see how this could be an argument. Jordan. All day, all night.

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    pgjacksonpgjackson Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @PeachCoDawg said:
    If you really understand basketball, and take everything in to account and are old enough to at least be comparing 80s-now changes in personnel, rules changes, etc I don't even see how this could be an argument. Jordan. All day, all night.

    And not just in basketball. He might be the most dominant pro athlete of all time. Gretzky is right up there as was Montana and Brady is now. I’d put LeBron in this group, but Jordan is at the top.

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    WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    Other

    @Red_N_Black said:

    @WCDawg said:

    Nique had a glaring flaw, he wasn't a smart or even a willing passer.
    He was far too easy to defend when the ball went to him, a defense could triple team him and he still wouldn't pass to a open teammate.

    Sounds like you're probably just a frustrated Jon Koncak fan.

    Nope, just looking at Nique with honest appraisal.
    The guy was beautifully dynamic, but his basketball IQ was not good.

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    WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    Other

    @amjadawgs said:

    @jarred_buck said:

    @amjadawgs said:
    I have to chime in on this one. If you are old enough to have seen Jordan in his prime, you would pick Jordan – no debate necessary. Scottie Pippen was a very good player in the Jordan era, but the key to that sentence is “in the Jordan era.” Jordan played with a lot of good but not great players around him. HE made those players relevant. His ability to put a team on his back, imo, is matched by NONE. The guy was amazing.

    I agree LeBron is a great player, but doesn’t have the impact in a game, nor the impact of making other team members seem great anywhere close to the level Jordan did. JMO, of course.

    Interesting to see your perspective, but it just doesn’t align with mine. Pippen was a great player. The year that Jordan was playing baseball, Pippen was in the running for MVP of the league. I also disagree with you saying that LeBron doesn’t make his team better. In my opinion, no one makes his team better than him. What separates them was Jordan’s clutch ability.

    Very good to agree to disagree here. You could very well be correct. Here’s my point – detailed a little more than my original post. Pippen was great after Jordan left. I’m just not sue he would have been had Jordan not been there to help him reach that level. Also, what sold it for me was in the final playoff game James played at Cleveland – his first stint in Cleveland – even though he physically stayed in the game, he took himself out of every play the final few minutes when he was needed – just to see if that team could pull out a win. Jordan would have never done that. He would have said, “Climb on my back guys and let’s get this win.”

    I did watch that game and even the commentators were asking “Where’s LeBron? He looks as if he just wants to see if his teammates can pull this one out.” James was on the very far corner of the offensive side of the court for several trips down the floor late in that game. I do respect your opinion though. This is just mine. I could be wrong obviously.

    Jordan didn't coach Pippen, SP came loaded with ability.
    What Scottie wasn't was a lead player. His mentality made him a masterful component but he wasn't the type tobe THE guy.

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    PeachCoDawgPeachCoDawg Posts: 489 ✭✭✭✭ Senior
    Jordan

    @pgjackson said:

    @PeachCoDawg said:
    If you really understand basketball, and take everything in to account and are old enough to at least be comparing 80s-now changes in personnel, rules changes, etc I don't even see how this could be an argument. Jordan. All day, all night.

    And not just in basketball. He might be the most dominant pro athlete of all time. Gretzky is right up there as was Montana and Brady is now. I’d put LeBron in this group, but Jordan is at the top.

    Agreed 100%

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    WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    Other

    @Dawgy_Fresh said:

    @SoFL_Dawg said:

    @judasdurant said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @judasdurant said:

    @pgjackson said:
    Here are the guys Jordan played against in the 80s and 90s

    Magic
    Bird
    Barkley
    Hakeem
    Dominique
    I. Thomas
    Malone
    Kareem
    McHale
    Laimbeer
    Shaq
    Robinson
    Ewing
    Kemp
    Mullen
    Mutombo
    Drexler
    Stockton
    Pippen
    Olajuwon

    There is nothing like that the last 10 years in the NBA. The late 80’s to early 90’s were the heyday of the NBA.

    I counter with
    Durant
    Duncan
    Iverson
    Tmac
    AD
    Curry
    Giannis
    Kobe
    Shaq
    Dwight
    Dwade
    Garnett
    Harden
    Westbrook
    Cp3
    Draymond green
    Klay Thompson
    Paul George
    Melo
    Derrick Rose
    Paul pierce
    Jason kid
    Steve Nash
    Dirk

    Gimme the bottom list over the top

    Seriously? Don't even know who half those guys are. The guys I listed from the 80's and 90's practically defined the sport. Those are guys even people who never saw them play know who they are. I didn't even have to list a full name. You know who they are by one name.

    And how tough is the NBA now that kids are coming right out of HS or only one year of college and starting?

    You just came in with a list that included Kevin Mchale and are saying that the NBA players i posted are irrelevant. I didn’t have to put a full name for any of those players, i just did it for a couple. And straight to the pros from high school has been happening since Moses Malone in 1974

    Butting in here but Mchale is considered a top 5 PF in history of the game by other players. Barkley considers him the best for example.

    I would say Duncan, K. Malone, M. Malone, Mchale, Barkley in that order.

    I think Michael is a top 10 PF but I’d put KG, Dirk, Elgin Baylor and Hayes over Mchale.

    McHale was unguardable in the low post, but he was not a ball handler or shooter.

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    PeachCoDawgPeachCoDawg Posts: 489 ✭✭✭✭ Senior
    Jordan

    @WCDawg said:

    @Red_N_Black said:

    @WCDawg said:

    Nique had a glaring flaw, he wasn't a smart or even a willing passer.
    He was far too easy to defend when the ball went to him, a defense could triple team him and he still wouldn't pass to a open teammate.

    Sounds like you're probably just a frustrated Jon Koncak fan.

    Nope, just looking at Nique with honest appraisal.
    The guy was beautifully dynamic, but his basketball IQ was not good.

    Man the dunks 'Nique used to throw down were just epic. His ball IQ wasn't the best, as you said, but man could he fly. Dr. J, MJ, Wilkins, Carter, etc.... Those dudes had "ups" like no normal human should have. Glad I was able to see em all

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    WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    Other

    @pgjackson said:

    @PeachCoDawg said:
    If you really understand basketball, and take everything in to account and are old enough to at least be comparing 80s-now changes in personnel, rules changes, etc I don't even see how this could be an argument. Jordan. All day, all night.

    And not just in basketball. He might be the most dominant pro athlete of all time. Gretzky is right up there as was Montana and Brady is now. I’d put LeBron in this group, but Jordan is at the top.

    Jordan was great in basketball, he was never even a top amature in any other sport. Otto Graham was great at the highest level in multiple sports. I could list MANY athletes who were superior overall to MJ.

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    donmdonm Posts: 10,241 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @WCDawg said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @PeachCoDawg said:
    If you really understand basketball, and take everything in to account and are old enough to at least be comparing 80s-now changes in personnel, rules changes, etc I don't even see how this could be an argument. Jordan. All day, all night.

    And not just in basketball. He might be the most dominant pro athlete of all time. Gretzky is right up there as was Montana and Brady is now. I’d put LeBron in this group, but Jordan is at the top.

    Jordan was great in basketball, he was never even a top amature in any other sport. Otto Graham was great at the highest level in multiple sports. I could list MANY athletes who were superior overall to MJ.

    Curious as to what ways you see them being superior. Not in measurables such as VJ, speed. and those types of things, right?

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    WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    Other

    @donm said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @PeachCoDawg said:
    If you really understand basketball, and take everything in to account and are old enough to at least be comparing 80s-now changes in personnel, rules changes, etc I don't even see how this could be an argument. Jordan. All day, all night.

    And not just in basketball. He might be the most dominant pro athlete of all time. Gretzky is right up there as was Montana and Brady is now. I’d put LeBron in this group, but Jordan is at the top.

    Jordan was great in basketball, he was never even a top amature in any other sport. Otto Graham was great at the highest level in multiple sports. I could list MANY athletes who were superior overall to MJ.

    Curious as to what ways you see them being superior. Not in measurables such as VJ, speed. and those types of things, right?

    What was MJ demonstrably or measurably great at other than basketball ?
    He wasn't a track man, or a football player, he **** as a MINOR LEAGUE baseball player.

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    WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    Other

    Danny Ainge.
    The only AA in all 3 sports of basketball, football and baseball in HS.
    He was a Parade All American QB and many thought his best sport was baseball, in which he was drafted out of HS.

    Jordan has been awful as a basketball executive while Ainge is among the best at the highest level.

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    godawgsgodawgs Posts: 326 ✭✭✭ Junior
    Jordan

    @judasdurant said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @judasdurant said:

    @pgjackson said:
    Here are the guys Jordan played against in the 80s and 90s

    Magic
    Bird
    Barkley
    Hakeem
    Dominique
    I. Thomas
    Malone
    Kareem
    McHale
    Laimbeer
    Shaq
    Robinson
    Ewing
    Kemp
    Mullen
    Mutombo
    Drexler
    Stockton
    Pippen
    Olajuwon

    There is nothing like that the last 10 years in the NBA. The late 80’s to early 90’s were the heyday of the NBA.

    I counter with
    Durant
    Duncan
    Iverson
    Tmac
    AD
    Curry
    Giannis
    Kobe
    Shaq
    Dwight
    Dwade
    Garnett
    Harden
    Westbrook
    Cp3
    Draymond green
    Klay Thompson
    Paul George
    Melo
    Derrick Rose
    Paul pierce
    Jason kid
    Steve Nash
    Dirk

    Gimme the bottom list over the top

    Seriously? Don't even know who half those guys are. The guys I listed from the 80's and 90's practically defined the sport. Those are guys even people who never saw them play know who they are. I didn't even have to list a full name. You know who they are by one name.

    And how tough is the NBA now that kids are coming right out of HS or only one year of college and starting?

    You just came in with a list that included Kevin Mchale and are saying that the NBA players i posted are irrelevant. I didn’t have to put a full name for any of those players, i just did it for a couple. And straight to the pros from high school has been happening since Moses Malone in 1974

    Kevin McHale is in the hall of fame (1999) and part of the three headed Celtics monster of the 80s along with Parrish and Bird. Not sure how he could be irrelevant.

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    WCDawgWCDawg Posts: 17,293 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    Other

    @godawgs said:

    @judasdurant said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @judasdurant said:

    @pgjackson said:
    Here are the guys Jordan played against in the 80s and 90s

    Magic
    Bird
    Barkley
    Hakeem
    Dominique
    I. Thomas
    Malone
    Kareem
    McHale
    Laimbeer
    Shaq
    Robinson
    Ewing
    Kemp
    Mullen
    Mutombo
    Drexler
    Stockton
    Pippen
    Olajuwon

    There is nothing like that the last 10 years in the NBA. The late 80’s to early 90’s were the heyday of the NBA.

    I counter with
    Durant
    Duncan
    Iverson
    Tmac
    AD
    Curry
    Giannis
    Kobe
    Shaq
    Dwight
    Dwade
    Garnett
    Harden
    Westbrook
    Cp3
    Draymond green
    Klay Thompson
    Paul George
    Melo
    Derrick Rose
    Paul pierce
    Jason kid
    Steve Nash
    Dirk

    Gimme the bottom list over the top

    Seriously? Don't even know who half those guys are. The guys I listed from the 80's and 90's practically defined the sport. Those are guys even people who never saw them play know who they are. I didn't even have to list a full name. You know who they are by one name.

    And how tough is the NBA now that kids are coming right out of HS or only one year of college and starting?

    You just came in with a list that included Kevin Mchale and are saying that the NBA players i posted are irrelevant. I didn’t have to put a full name for any of those players, i just did it for a couple. And straight to the pros from high school has been happening since Moses Malone in 1974

    Kevin McHale is in the hall of fame (1999) and part of the three headed Celtics monster of the 80s along with Parrish and Bird. Not sure how he could be irrelevant.

    @godawgs said:

    @judasdurant said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @judasdurant said:

    @pgjackson said:
    Here are the guys Jordan played against in the 80s and 90s

    Magic
    Bird
    Barkley
    Hakeem
    Dominique
    I. Thomas
    Malone
    Kareem
    McHale
    Laimbeer
    Shaq
    Robinson
    Ewing
    Kemp
    Mullen
    Mutombo
    Drexler
    Stockton
    Pippen
    Olajuwon

    There is nothing like that the last 10 years in the NBA. The late 80’s to early 90’s were the heyday of the NBA.

    I counter with
    Durant
    Duncan
    Iverson
    Tmac
    AD
    Curry
    Giannis
    Kobe
    Shaq
    Dwight
    Dwade
    Garnett
    Harden
    Westbrook
    Cp3
    Draymond green
    Klay Thompson
    Paul George
    Melo
    Derrick Rose
    Paul pierce
    Jason kid
    Steve Nash
    Dirk

    Gimme the bottom list over the top

    Seriously? Don't even know who half those guys are. The guys I listed from the 80's and 90's practically defined the sport. Those are guys even people who never saw them play know who they are. I didn't even have to list a full name. You know who they are by one name.

    And how tough is the NBA now that kids are coming right out of HS or only one year of college and starting?

    You just came in with a list that included Kevin Mchale and are saying that the NBA players i posted are irrelevant. I didn’t have to put a full name for any of those players, i just did it for a couple. And straight to the pros from high school has been happening since Moses Malone in 1974

    Kevin McHale is in the hall of fame (1999) and part of the three headed Celtics monster of the 80s along with Parrish and Bird. Not sure how he could be irrelevant.

    McHale was as unstoppable in the low post as any player in history.

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    Dawgy_FreshDawgy_Fresh Posts: 895 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    Jordan

    @WCDawg said:

    @Dawgy_Fresh said:

    @SoFL_Dawg said:

    @judasdurant said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @judasdurant said:

    @pgjackson said:
    Here are the guys Jordan played against in the 80s and 90s

    Magic
    Bird
    Barkley
    Hakeem
    Dominique
    I. Thomas
    Malone
    Kareem
    McHale
    Laimbeer
    Shaq
    Robinson
    Ewing
    Kemp
    Mullen
    Mutombo
    Drexler
    Stockton
    Pippen
    Olajuwon

    There is nothing like that the last 10 years in the NBA. The late 80’s to early 90’s were the heyday of the NBA.

    I counter with
    Durant
    Duncan
    Iverson
    Tmac
    AD
    Curry
    Giannis
    Kobe
    Shaq
    Dwight
    Dwade
    Garnett
    Harden
    Westbrook
    Cp3
    Draymond green
    Klay Thompson
    Paul George
    Melo
    Derrick Rose
    Paul pierce
    Jason kid
    Steve Nash
    Dirk

    Gimme the bottom list over the top

    Seriously? Don't even know who half those guys are. The guys I listed from the 80's and 90's practically defined the sport. Those are guys even people who never saw them play know who they are. I didn't even have to list a full name. You know who they are by one name.

    And how tough is the NBA now that kids are coming right out of HS or only one year of college and starting?

    You just came in with a list that included Kevin Mchale and are saying that the NBA players i posted are irrelevant. I didn’t have to put a full name for any of those players, i just did it for a couple. And straight to the pros from high school has been happening since Moses Malone in 1974

    Butting in here but Mchale is considered a top 5 PF in history of the game by other players. Barkley considers him the best for example.

    I would say Duncan, K. Malone, M. Malone, Mchale, Barkley in that order.

    I think Michael is a top 10 PF but I’d put KG, Dirk, Elgin Baylor and Hayes over Mchale.

    McHale was unguardable in the low post, but he was not a ball handler or shooter.

    100% why I’d still put him in my top 10 PFs just never was the best player on his team which is why I’d take guys I listed above him. I’m not saying he wasn’t great just diasagreed he was a top 5 PF.

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    pgjacksonpgjackson Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    edited July 2018

    @WCDawg said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @PeachCoDawg said:
    If you really understand basketball, and take everything in to account and are old enough to at least be comparing 80s-now changes in personnel, rules changes, etc I don't even see how this could be an argument. Jordan. All day, all night.

    And not just in basketball. He might be the most dominant pro athlete of all time. Gretzky is right up there as was Montana and Brady is now. I’d put LeBron in this group, but Jordan is at the top.

    Jordan was great in basketball, he was never even a top amature in any other sport. Otto Graham was great at the highest level in multiple sports. I could list MANY athletes who were superior overall to MJ.

    I'm talking pro sports. Please don't start listing Michael Phelps or wrestler Alexander Karelin or some other Olympian with tons of gold medals. I'm talking major pro sports (football, basketball, baseball, tennis, hockey, golf...) Nobody dominated their sport the way MJ dominated the NBA.

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    donmdonm Posts: 10,241 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate

    @WCDawg said:

    @donm said:

    @WCDawg said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @PeachCoDawg said:
    If you really understand basketball, and take everything in to account and are old enough to at least be comparing 80s-now changes in personnel, rules changes, etc I don't even see how this could be an argument. Jordan. All day, all night.

    And not just in basketball. He might be the most dominant pro athlete of all time. Gretzky is right up there as was Montana and Brady is now. I’d put LeBron in this group, but Jordan is at the top.

    Jordan was great in basketball, he was never even a top amature in any other sport. Otto Graham was great at the highest level in multiple sports. I could list MANY athletes who were superior overall to MJ.

    Curious as to what ways you see them being superior. Not in measurables such as VJ, speed. and those types of things, right?

    What was MJ demonstrably or measurably great at other than basketball ?
    He wasn't a track man, or a football player, he **** as a MINOR LEAGUE baseball player.

    Thanks for the clarification.

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    judasdurantjudasdurant Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    Lebron

    @WCDawg said:

    @Dawgy_Fresh said:

    @SoFL_Dawg said:

    @judasdurant said:

    @pgjackson said:

    @judasdurant said:

    @pgjackson said:
    Here are the guys Jordan played against in the 80s and 90s

    Magic
    Bird
    Barkley
    Hakeem
    Dominique
    I. Thomas
    Malone
    Kareem
    McHale
    Laimbeer
    Shaq
    Robinson
    Ewing
    Kemp
    Mullen
    Mutombo
    Drexler
    Stockton
    Pippen
    Olajuwon

    There is nothing like that the last 10 years in the NBA. The late 80’s to early 90’s were the heyday of the NBA.

    I counter with
    Durant
    Duncan
    Iverson
    Tmac
    AD
    Curry
    Giannis
    Kobe
    Shaq
    Dwight
    Dwade
    Garnett
    Harden
    Westbrook
    Cp3
    Draymond green
    Klay Thompson
    Paul George
    Melo
    Derrick Rose
    Paul pierce
    Jason kid
    Steve Nash
    Dirk

    Gimme the bottom list over the top

    Seriously? Don't even know who half those guys are. The guys I listed from the 80's and 90's practically defined the sport. Those are guys even people who never saw them play know who they are. I didn't even have to list a full name. You know who they are by one name.

    And how tough is the NBA now that kids are coming right out of HS or only one year of college and starting?

    You just came in with a list that included Kevin Mchale and are saying that the NBA players i posted are irrelevant. I didn’t have to put a full name for any of those players, i just did it for a couple. And straight to the pros from high school has been happening since Moses Malone in 1974

    Butting in here but Mchale is considered a top 5 PF in history of the game by other players. Barkley considers him the best for example.

    I would say Duncan, K. Malone, M. Malone, Mchale, Barkley in that order.

    I think Michael is a top 10 PF but I’d put KG, Dirk, Elgin Baylor and Hayes over Mchale.

    McHale was unguardable in the low post, but he was not a ball handler or shooter.

    Mchale would be unplayable in 2018

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    PlayHurtPlayHurt Posts: 999 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    Other

    Larry Bird. Could do it all. Coach on the court, too.

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    ReeldawgReeldawg Posts: 971 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    Jordan

    @JRT812 said:
    Pistol

    I am surprised no else mentioned Maravich.

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    dbrown7494dbrown7494 Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate
    Other

    Kobe aka Black Mamba!
    Rings and just the killer instinct alone sets him in a class with Jordan but if I’m taking one of the 2 I’m taking Kobe. He would have easily had another ring if it wasn’t for the injuries.

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